League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA) part 2

[Abel007]

Unfortunately, I am finding that out. Jax just doesn't do well vs most top laners. He is very strong vs some though, like Gangplank. He is also good at ganks if the stun lands thus making him a pretty good jungler. I was just hoping he would be more viable since his changes, time to move on though I am afraid. I will say he is a very fun champ to play though and I hope some more things change to bring him back around. His late game is strong right now, but he takes so long to ramp up the damage.

 

[HumblePie]

The most recent Jax changes made him more viable late game. His early game is just junk right now. No big deal. He has a viable use on a team at least. The only problem is the only way to put Jax on a team is to put him in the Jungle so he can get to late game. However, Jax is certainly not the best jungler. He's not bad and there are far worse champs to jungle with. But too many champs are better in the jungle than him.

 

[krnmastersgt]

I still really enjoy Jax as he's capable of counter initiating a fight by himself with E + R, and his midgame damage output can be absolutely insane if he has any decent amount of farm. I play him both top and jungle and I don't usually have many issues top, just CS as best you can and when they happen to be close to you smack them with a W and just walk off. If they try to engage, just measure what your odds of winning are; like if you're against Lee Sin with decent damage and his Cripple tagged on you, I'd suggest jumping as far away as you can (preferably near your own turret, wouldn't wanna be caught away from it when the jungler waltzes in). If you are going to fight however, while Jax doesn't have the lane sustain he can easily beat most people in a straight up 1v1 due to Counter Strike, you just have to know they're also committing to fighting you.

Also as far as top laners go, Renekton used to be an incredibly strong top but I feel that after they tweaked his numbers down (forgot when they did this) he lost his place up there against most of the other top lanes.

I'd also like to add that Olaf can basically win top lane against anyone that isn't ranged to to how powerful Reckless Swings gets at around 3 and 5, granted plenty of top laners can not die to him but not many can evenly trade and sustain in the lane quite like Olaf can. That being said, a good gank or two top can basically shut him down for a while since he's not very good at playing catch-up against someone that can bully him out. I'd also place Shen among the top tier due to his ability to win the lane at level 2 and just control it from there on out; again though like Olaf if he's at a disadvantage there's not much he can do to regain control but both are strong when they do control the lane.

 

[ivan2]

my new favorite is to smurf with trynd. Take heal and you are set to bait several to tower dive and feed you early. Lol

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I still really enjoy Jax as he's capable of counter initiating a fight by himself with E + R, and his midgame damage output can be absolutely insane if he has any decent amount of farm. I play him both top and jungle and I don't usually have many issues top, just CS as best you can and when they happen to be close to you smack them with a W and just walk off. If they try to engage, just measure what your odds of winning are; like if you're against Lee Sin with decent damage and his Cripple tagged on you, I'd suggest jumping as far away as you can (preferably near your own turret, wouldn't wanna be caught away from it when the jungler waltzes in). If you are going to fight however, while Jax doesn't have the lane sustain he can easily beat most people in a straight up 1v1 due to Counter Strike, you just have to know they're also committing to fighting you.

Also as far as top laners go, Renekton used to be an incredibly strong top but I feel that after they tweaked his numbers down (forgot when they did this) he lost his place up there against most of the other top lanes.

I'd also like to add that Olaf can basically win top lane against anyone that isn't ranged to to how powerful Reckless Swings gets at around 3 and 5, granted plenty of top laners can not die to him but not many can evenly trade and sustain in the lane quite like Olaf can. That being said, a good gank or two top can basically shut him down for a while since he's not very good at playing catch-up against someone that can bully him out. I'd also place Shen among the top tier due to his ability to win the lane at level 2 and just control it from there on out; again though like Olaf if he's at a disadvantage there's not much he can do to regain control but both are strong when they do control the lane.

Olaf gets shit on by WW, made me so damn sad when I tried it out. WW's sustain far FAR outstrips olaf. Every single trade, I used reckless swing on him, which damages me, he uses lifesteal, which heals back most of the swing damage, and at the same time damages me, which leaves me far behind in the health category. 5 seconds later, he's healed up from minions.

Also, anyone get a good feel for jax vs fiora? Tried a Fiora against jax and was having somewhat of a hard time. Its pretty hard to counter the jump,stun, bonus attack combo from Jax as Fiora. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I have been playing a bit more lately, and have been playing Lulu. I really like her. She's much more fun to play as a full support than Soraka ever will be ;p

Granted she doesn't give the constant health that Soraka does so maybe from a bottom lane aspect she's not as viable, but that's what makes Soraka boring. She adds a stalemate to the game that shouldn't be there. She forces passive play when playing against her in lanes.

.

 

[krnmastersgt]

If the Jax is only harassing you when he leads with his stun + leap, not much you can do aside from maybe try to leap to his creep so that you don't get caught in the stun. If he's just harassing you with W (which is what I usually do) then you're just gonna have to get a good feel for when he's going to hit you with it and try to counter. In terms of straight kits both are capable of countering each other to a degree so it depends more on the circumstances of the trades and rune/mastery set-ups imo.

Though I do think the lane favors Fiora as he can harass you, you can harass back as he doesn't have his Counter-Strike to dodge your hits anymore and your passive gives you sustain while his just gives him the edge in a straight fight. Though I do believe that this scenario is close enough that your set-up and playstyle shape how the lane will end, that or just a really good early jungle gank to give someone the lead.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Olaf gets shit on by WW, made me so damn sad when I tried it out. WW's sustain far FAR outstrips olaf. Every single trade, I used reckless swing on him, which damages me, he uses lifesteal, which heals back most of the swing damage, and at the same time damages me, which leaves me far behind in the health category. 5 seconds later, he's healed up from minions.

Also, anyone get a good feel for jax vs fiora? Tried a Fiora against jax and was having somewhat of a hard time. Its pretty hard to counter the jump,stun, bonus attack combo from Jax as Fiora. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong.

lanelaf = Qspam + E. if you can land the Q (undertow), you will seriously wreck people because you get 6s CDR when you pick it up. it gives you MASSIVE dps if you can do it right.

 

[thejunglegod]

I have been playing a bit more lately, and have been playing Lulu. I really like her.

i can understand that i guess. As Kog i usually get baited a lot, but last night was just ridiculous. Its mid-game and im doing quite well. So i decide to help gank. i see a Lulu in the brush with a quarter HP, so i jump in and try to chase her for a free kill only to find a FULL HP FULL MANA Ashe waiting nearby for me. This happened not once or twice but a LOT of times. So much so that Lulu became our priority target. Playing a support was never so much fun i guess.

 

[thejunglegod]

Kog builds in bot lane should focus on AD and AS. Things like IE/Phantom Dancer/LW and QSS. Everyone dies.

Kog's primary damage method is W boosted attacks. It takes 100AP to increase that damage by 1% of their HP. At end game, your average champ is going to have around 2500 hp. So 100AP translates into 25 damage. And that's just at end game - it's worse at earlier parts of the game. You're going to have far more impact with a +80 damage and +crit IE. AP was the better choice when R didn't scale with AD and Q didn't give you any armor penetration (not that you really get close enough to use Q often). I use movespeed quints on Kog and make a Zeal my first buy. Use your range and the extra speed to stay out of trouble. Get your IE next and then finish Phantom Dancer. Then go with whatever fits your needs best. Trinity Force will give you a little bit of everything you need. Bloodthirster will give you more damage and some sustain. Guardian Angel will keep you in fights if you're getting targeted first. Bloodrazor is a terrible item these days on all but a very few champions who have abilities to utilize it to great effect (ie. Warwick). It's just too expensive for the effect it gives.

Thanks for the tips guys. Ill definitely give those builds a try.

 

[zebano]

So I've lost a ton of Elo learning to play AD carries and in particular I am horrible with Corki. That said I didn't realize how nice the Ashe buffs were a few patches back, outside of one game where a 4-0 Renkton started jumping me, she's quite a strong champ (still won that one but was 9-8-8 (way too many deaths).

 

[crownjules]

Ashe has been for some time my go to AD carry. She doesn't have the pure damage potential of Graves from the get go, but she brings a lot of CC to the team out of the AD position. A lot of people make the mistake of maxing Volley over Frost Shot, but take it from someone who's played Ashe a long time. You're far better off getting people locked into perma-slow (or being better able to kite away from threats) so they can't escape ganks then you are getting a slightly lower CD on Volley.

Pair her up with another strong CC bottom like Alistar or Leona and the lane becomes hellish. Unless they pick Soraka in which case you just concentrate on farming up your IE by 20 minutes.

 

[HumblePie]

So I've lost a ton of Elo learning to play AD carries and in particular I am horrible with Corki. That said I didn't realize how nice the Ashe buffs were a few patches back, outside of one game where a 4-0 Renkton started jumping me, she's quite a strong champ (still won that one but was 9-8-8 (way too many deaths).

Corki is such a horrible AD range champ in my opinion. I've stated that here before. No real burst damage, no CC, and no real steroid. His gatling gun is clunky to use in a team fight and puts him real danger to do so. He is OK for a poke comp team, but he is too easily caught even with Valkyrie to use as an escape. Except for his ult, he lacks the range to kite effectively.

Only good AD ranges in my opinion are one of the following.

Caitlyn, Graves, Vayne, Tristana, and Ashe.

Ashe is just barely good enough now due to recent buffs. I still don't like her attack animation problems and lack of escape beyond kiting. Also she is way too dependent upon landing her ult.

I also still dislike Tristana split damage on her ult. If it scaled either AD or AP she would be solid if not the best AD range.

Vayne and Graves lack range, but can overcome those problems.

These are the "premier" AD ranges in my opinion. Meaning not picking one of these is hurting your team.



Other AD ranges though just don't stack up for various reasons. Those are Corki, Teemo, Ezreal, Kog Maw, Sivir, Miss Fortune, Lulu, and Kennen.

Some of these in this list are better than others. For example Kog maw is much better than Corki or Teemo in my opinion. He has a steroid. He has massive range. He lacks a good passive. He lacks and escape. He is really slow as well. He also has a longer animation start time to his attacks than I like. His damage is split and he has massive mana problems early to mid game. Because of that he is not what I would call "premier" but he is damn decent at least. I won't complain about having a kog on my team as an AD range unlike a Corki, Teemo, or Ezreal right now. Those three are the worst of the AD ranges in my opinion right now.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

lanelaf = Qspam + E. if you can land the Q (undertow), you will seriously wreck people because you get 6s CDR when you pick it up. it gives you MASSIVE dps if you can do it right.

It only works against champions that have less sustain than olaf. Olaf is pretty good at the sustain game, but, if not, Olaf can't keep his health high enough to trade blows with a higher sustaining champion

 

[HumblePie]

Ashe has been for some time my go to AD carry. She doesn't have the pure damage potential of Graves from the get go, but she brings a lot of CC to the team out of the AD position. A lot of people make the mistake of maxing Volley over Frost Shot, but take it from someone who's played Ashe a long time. You're far better off getting people locked into perma-slow (or being better able to kite away from threats) so they can't escape ganks then you are getting a slightly lower CD on Volley.

Pair her up with another strong CC bottom like Alistar or Leona and the lane becomes hellish. Unless they pick Soraka in which case you just concentrate on farming up your IE by 20 minutes.

Naw, still best AD range combo I've found by far is Taric + Graves.


Once those two reach level 6, it is insta pop for whomever they target together. It will be repeated every time they come back into lane so long as they keep the coordination up.

The damage those two put out at level 6 if everything lands, which it can all be dumped out in a split second, is around 2.5K damage. No one is going to survive that around level 6. No one. It's an insta-gib combo.

 

[HumblePie]

It only works against champions that have less sustain than olaf. Olaf is pretty good at the sustain game, but, if not, Olaf can't keep his health high enough to trade blows with a higher sustaining champion

Yep. I said earlier that WW wrecks Olaf. Not a damn thing he can do even if he maxes undertow and lands it every time and re picks it up. WW just will out sustain it and trade blows for more damage. Not to mention the chances of landing every undertow is fairly low unless the person is just retarded and stands in one spot all the time.

Some tops Olaf can wreck. Some champs wreck olaf top. Warwick is one of those. Just going to happen that way.

 

[HumblePie]

I still really enjoy Jax as he's capable of counter initiating a fight by himself with E + R, and his midgame damage output can be absolutely insane if he has any decent amount of farm. I play him both top and jungle and I don't usually have many issues top, just CS as best you can and when they happen to be close to you smack them with a W and just walk off. If they try to engage, just measure what your odds of winning are; like if you're against Lee Sin with decent damage and his Cripple tagged on you, I'd suggest jumping as far away as you can (preferably near your own turret, wouldn't wanna be caught away from it when the jungler waltzes in). If you are going to fight however, while Jax doesn't have the lane sustain he can easily beat most people in a straight up 1v1 due to Counter Strike, you just have to know they're also committing to fighting you.

Also as far as top laners go, Renekton used to be an incredibly strong top but I feel that after they tweaked his numbers down (forgot when they did this) he lost his place up there against most of the other top lanes.

I'd also like to add that Olaf can basically win top lane against anyone that isn't ranged to to how powerful Reckless Swings gets at around 3 and 5, granted plenty of top laners can not die to him but not many can evenly trade and sustain in the lane quite like Olaf can. That being said, a good gank or two top can basically shut him down for a while since he's not very good at playing catch-up against someone that can bully him out. I'd also place Shen among the top tier due to his ability to win the lane at level 2 and just control it from there on out; again though like Olaf if he's at a disadvantage there's not much he can do to regain control but both are strong when they do control the lane.

I put up my list for a reason. Olaf is a good top, but hardly the best.

Warwick wrecks him. Yorick wrecks him. Cho Wrecks him. Lee Sin wrecks him, Trynd with crit % early Wrecks him, Udyr Wrecks him, Riven wrecks him, and Renekton wrecks him.


He does do pretty good against the rest of the other top laners. But if anyone picks one of those top I put above then he's screwed if they are good. Some top laners he does well against counterwise. For example Olaf can wreck gangplank while being wreck by warwick. However, gangplank can wreck warwick. It's a weird circle but that is how it is.

Warwick beats oOaf. Olaf beats Gangplank. Gangplank beats Warwick.

 

[krnmastersgt]

While I will agree that he'd have a hard time vs. Warwick for the most part, the rest of that list has some issues fighting Olaf aside from Tryn.

Riven for one, has no innate sustain, just the ability to shield if she sees damage coming therefore unless she's on the ball about shielding every Reckless Swings eventually she'll be dropping lower in health. She can beat Olaf in a standing fight for the most part as all her abilities are strong for dueling (though if she misses the stun she's pretty screwed) but her strength in lane is also harassment, in which case I'd favor the smart Olaf to the smart Riven.

Yorick and Cho have some amazing sustain however they have their downsides. Yorick is the easier one to point out as if you lack mana from harassing Olaf you won't be able to heal and vice versa. He has some pretty serious mana issues at the start if his opponent is being very aggressive as to try and maintain control of the lane he has to spam his ghouls like crazy. Cho just needs to get the last hit to sustain however he doesn't fair that well in standing fights which Olaf excels at.

Udyr. Unfortunately Udyr basically just stonewalls whatever top lane opponent he faces aside from the ranged/ap carries as if anyone ever gets in melee range he just stuns and runs, then pops turtle to heal up. I don't see Olaf really forcing an Udyr out of lane but at the same time I don't see Udyr being able to really stop Olaf either as they both have a lot of lifesteal in lane, each with slight advantages in different areas.

Lee Sin is a strong top as he counters most other tops with his skill pool, while being able to duel Olaf pretty effectively he doesn't have much in the way of harass. His sustain is also worse than Olaf's for the most part, not likely to get bullied out that often but as strong as Lee Sin is top, he doesn't absolutely stomp Olaf as Olaf can easily trade a few hits and make up for the HP loss.

Renekton is a strong harasser as he doesn't utilize a mana system, has a leap, a stun, and an aoe mini-nuke that heals him. However for Renekton to even sustain in a lane he will be pushing it quite quickly and while his stun is good its mostly a set-up tool for other people to hit his target as the animation for it lasts so long the target is only stunned with Renekton able to hit him for about .5 to 1 second. As long as you don't take too many hits from W + Q early on, Olaf wouldn't have a very hard time vs. Renekton as he could bully him back with Q + E and then just heal up with W and Renekton relies heavily on his abilities to win fights.

 

[HumblePie]

While I will agree that he'd have a hard time vs. Warwick for the most part, the rest of that list has some issues fighting Olaf aside from Tryn.

Riven for one, has no innate sustain, just the ability to shield if she sees damage coming therefore unless she's on the ball about shielding every Reckless Swings eventually she'll be dropping lower in health. She can beat Olaf in a standing fight for the most part as all her abilities are strong for dueling (though if she misses the stun she's pretty screwed) but her strength in lane is also harassment, in which case I'd favor the smart Olaf to the smart Riven.

Yorick and Cho have some amazing sustain however they have their downsides. Yorick is the easier one to point out as if you lack mana from harassing Olaf you won't be able to heal and vice versa. He has some pretty serious mana issues at the start if his opponent is being very aggressive as to try and maintain control of the lane he has to spam his ghouls like crazy. Cho just needs to get the last hit to sustain however he doesn't fair that well in standing fights which Olaf excels at.

Udyr. Unfortunately Udyr basically just stonewalls whatever top lane opponent he faces aside from the ranged/ap carries as if anyone ever gets in melee range he just stuns and runs, then pops turtle to heal up. I don't see Olaf really forcing an Udyr out of lane but at the same time I don't see Udyr being able to really stop Olaf either as they both have a lot of lifesteal in lane, each with slight advantages in different areas.

Lee Sin is a strong top as he counters most other tops with his skill pool, while being able to duel Olaf pretty effectively he doesn't have much in the way of harass. His sustain is also worse than Olaf's for the most part, not likely to get bullied out that often but as strong as Lee Sin is top, he doesn't absolutely stomp Olaf as Olaf can easily trade a few hits and make up for the HP loss.

Renekton is a strong harasser as he doesn't utilize a mana system, has a leap, a stun, and an aoe mini-nuke that heals him. However for Renekton to even sustain in a lane he will be pushing it quite quickly and while his stun is good its mostly a set-up tool for other people to hit his target as the animation for it lasts so long the target is only stunned with Renekton able to hit him for about .5 to 1 second. As long as you don't take too many hits from W + Q early on, Olaf wouldn't have a very hard time vs. Renekton as he could bully him back with Q + E and then just heal up with W and Renekton relies heavily on his abilities to win fights.

Riven has the mobility Olaf doesn't to go with the shield. Smart riven needs to utilize shield and stun as well as her mobility to deal wtih Olaf. Otherwise an Olaf will win that lane.

Yorick is weak until he gets a ToG or Chalice. After that there isn't anything Olaf has that can stop Yorick. Before that though, both have mana issues if you don't count reckless swings. Still Yorick doesn't need to be anywhere near Olaf in the beginning and thus it should be a push until Yorick get's his ToG or chalice. After that Yorick will zone the shit out of Olaf.

Cho basically ignores Olaf until level 6. Harass while he can as he last hits. Cho does that period as a top lane. Waits until level 6 when jungle can come over. Then gank Olaf with jungle from knock up + jungler doing shit + eating Olaf with ult. After that Cho is hard to deal with regardless of who i up against him.

Lee sin can most certainly harass Olaf EASY. This is where Lee Sin is disgusting top. Sure he has a Q that is a skill shot, but he has an AoE attack and an jump back. Meaning even if I miss my Q on my target, if I hit a creep nearby with lee sin, I can jump into the minion, smack my enemy with AoE damage, and jump back out before retaliation can even happen. Not a damn thing Olaf can do against that play style. Even if Olaf toss an undertow after Lee Sin as he jumps back out, Lee will have his shield up to take the blow.

Renekton played well just mostly dominates top right now. Slice in, Stun, Dice out. Constant harass early on without the other person able to do anything about it. His sustain is like anyone elses, requires hitting creeps to get back health. Difference is he can his a LOT of creeps at once to get back a lot more health in one swing than other people are capable of doing.


Don't get me wrong. Olaf is a fine top laner. He does well against most champs. Certain champs when played well will wreck him though no matter how well he is played.

 

[HumblePie]

As a continuation of my previous post. Why isn't Olaf considered higher on my list of Top laners?

One, he lacks both a gap closer and/or escape. Leads him open to ganks.

He has some mana issues early game, especially if relying on undertow.

He has no real CC except his undertow for slow. This means he has a harder time helping with ganks and escaping them.

His life sustain is not the best. Not the worst, but not the best.

He does get a steroid from his passive, but early game that is a weak passive until he starts building up enough health.

Still his DPS output is pretty high, he does have sustain, he does have some range, and once he reaches level 6 he can't be CC'd. Which means he can escape ganks easier than most.

He's a solid champ and a solid top laner. Late game he can be monstrous as well with the right item build. Big beefy, tanky dps that can't be stopped is Olaf. That's why I like him. But do I consider him the best top laner? Nope.

 

[bfdd]

Been playing Wukong and Sejuani lately. Need to get a ranged, thinking probably ranged support aka Zilean into my rotation.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Don't forget to copy down your mastery pages before the next patch!

 

[hans030390]

I've played a few games lately where I build Rammus like I build Shyvana (Mercury Treads, Trinity Force, Warmogs, Atmas, Wits End, and then a situational item). Runes focus on armor, magic resist, attack speed, and armor pen. Masteries are 21/9/0.

He has a bit of a slow start (like Shyvana), and you have to be careful since this isn't a full-on tank build (plus he doesn't have the armor/magic resist buff that Shyvana's ult gives her). Other than that...well, it's awesome!

Late game, his shield will boost his armor and magic resist close to (or over) 300. That alone will boost his AD crazy high, and he has plenty of attack speed. Taunt + Shield + Powerball when they try to run away + Ult if you need it. It's gross.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I've played a few games lately where I build Rammus like I build Shyvana (Mercury Treads, Trinity Force, Warmogs, Atmas, Wits End, and then a situational item). Runes focus on armor, magic resist, attack speed, and armor pen. Masteries are 21/9/0.

He has a bit of a slow start (like Shyvana), and you have to be careful since this isn't a full-on tank build (plus he doesn't have the armor/magic resist buff that Shyvana's ult gives her). Other than that...well, it's awesome!

Late game, his shield will boost his armor and magic resist close to (or over) 300. That alone will boost his AD crazy high, and he has plenty of attack speed. Taunt + Shield + Powerball when they try to run away + Ult if you need it. It's gross.

AD/AS Rammus is fun to play. Yes you have to be a bit careful early on, but most times people don't even notice it and you own them. Of course, your team will completely troll you for doing this so if you don't do well, you'll hear about it.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Just played a pretty fun game:

Our team: Soraka, Janna, Lulu(me), Nunu, Ashe

Their team: Ahri, GP, Yorick, Akali, Tristana.

We absolutely rolled them. It was pretty funny because going in the other team was all kinds of trash talking about our all support team.

We had so much CC and Heal it was insane. We ended up winning with them only getting 1 tower.