Lean Gains by Martin Berkhan

[z1ggy]

4 weeks into things now. No real change in body weight, but my strength is still rising. It's almost tapped out in certain areas, but my squat is still going up, so no real complaints. I slacked on cardio this week because my legs were absolutely ruined after I did some heavy dead lifts, so I only managed to get in cardio on Mon and Tues.

I can notice definition in my legs that I haven't noticed since my college days when I was in really good shape. My arms are a little bit more defined, and my chest. Not much but I bet if I took a pic and compared it to me 6 months ago, I'd notice a difference.

I'll update again next week!

 

[z1ggy]

End of week 5. Lost a touch of weight.. sitting at a solid 184lb. The crappy thing is that I am starting to max out most of my lifts. I'm not really getting stronger anymore, which is fine and expected... It's just sad. It's tough for me to have the mental focus and desire to lift heavy when each week I can't do more reps than the last.

Hoping to be sitting at 180lb by end of this month. I think regardless, I am going to bulk from Sept-Dec. Now that I have discovered the almighty power of the Crock Pot, I have so many awesome meals I want to make.

My 2 latest meals that I am in love with are organic protein pancakes- made from scratch might I add- and chicken legs slow cooked in home made spicy apple sauce. Nomnomnomnonmnomnonm.

 

[Koing]

End of week 5. Lost a touch of weight.. sitting at a solid 184lb. The crappy thing is that I am starting to max out most of my lifts. I'm not really getting stronger anymore, which is fine and expected... It's just sad. It's tough for me to have the mental focus and desire to lift heavy when each week I can't do more reps than the last.

Hoping to be sitting at 180lb by end of this month. I think regardless, I am going to bulk from Sept-Dec. Now that I have discovered the almighty power of the Crock Pot, I have so many awesome meals I want to make.

My 2 latest meals that I am in love with are organic protein pancakes- made from scratch might I add- and chicken legs slow cooked in home made spicy apple sauce. Nomnomnomnonmnomnonm.

Just keep on the grind in the gym with your weights and on the diet.

The diet will get your weight down.

Koing

 

[z1ggy]

So it's been about 2 weeks since I stopped IF. I haven't really changed much as far as my lifts go, or my calorie macros.

I've stopped all weight loss. In fact, I've gained weight. Probably water because I tend to drink less water now because when I was hungry in the A.M. while fasting, I'd drink tons of water to help curb the hunger.

However, I am stronger now in the gym. On IF, I was struggling to deadlift even 185lb (fasted training). Now that I'm training with about 500-600 cals in my stomach prior to lifting, I can deadlift 185lb no problem for reps. It was only like 4 weeks ago I did 185lb and actually got DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness- not good for you) from just 2 sets. Did 3 sets for reps yesterday and don't even feel sore.. I could have gone harder.

As for my plan forward, I plan to go back to IF starting Monday. I really do think it works, but more for the fact it helped me mentally. I don't know why, but like I stated previously, have 3 larger meals a day was almost orgasmic to me. It was so amazing shoving what seemed like endless food in my mouth until I was extremely full. And the nice thing was, 4 hours later, I was actually hungry again. Additionally, it helped me control my calorie intake because it's nearly impossible to over eat on clean foods in only 3 meals a day. Even harder on 2 meals.

I'm also switching off MAX OT, and switching to RPT. It uses principals from leangains and IF, but with a slightly different approach to lifting. Overall, it's very similar, but I would describe it has lower volume of lifting per week, at a higher intensity. Finally, I may try and switch back to lifting while in a fasted state (other than BCAAs pre work out). The research does suggest it may help with fat burning and insulin sensitivity. If my strength goes down again while doing this, I'll just have to gather that I need some carbs pre-work out, and is specific to my body. I never felt tired or weak during my fasted training, but now that I am eating 1 full meal before lifts, my lifts have improved by about 5% almost immediately. Could be mental, I'll try to see.

Link for anybody interested in this approach:
http://rippedbody.jp/site-guide/

Currently going to be eating 2800 cals on lift days, and 1950 on rest days. Will weigh in daily and adjust as needed. This should be setting my up to lose about 1lb/week again. I remember last time I didn't really lose anything until about half way through the second week. I'll probably readjust after 4 weeks depending on what happens.

Edit: Going to list my first week weight and starting lifts, so I can compare as I progress

Weight-188.9lb
Dead Lift: 215x6, 185x10, 165x11
Chin up: bodyweight +10x8, BWx8, BWx7
Bench Press: 165x8, 150x10, 135x11
Squat: 185x8, 165x10, 150x12
OHP: 75x8, 65x10, 50x12

 

[z1ggy]

Figured I'd give a little update and maybe solicit any advice or tips you could have.

Starting up week 4 today. So far, I have gained about 3lb, using the RPT approach described in the link above. I am eating about 2800cal on lift days, and about 1850cal on rest days.

Honestly, not worried about the 3lb weight gain. I am lifting with high intensity and eating a lot more carbs overall than I ever have before, so this 3lb is likely just water. The person who advocates and teaches RPT in the link above, had most of his clients gaining some weight initially, especially if they came from low cal, low carb diets.

All my lifts have progress every week, which is a good sign. I took some measurements as well at end of week one, which I will retake again end of week 4. I'm guessing they will be about the same, but we will see. I honestly don't expect to start loosing weight until maybe week 6. If after week 6 I haven't lost any fo the 3lb I put on, I'll cut cals a little bit. Here are my lifts that I will be doing now:

Current body weight: 191.2lb
Deadlift: 245x4-6
Bench: 180x6-8
Squat: 205x6-8
Chins: +15lb to body weight x 6-8
OHP: 90x6-8

I've noticed a small slowdown in strength gains, which means hopefully soon I will start to lose some fat once those stop. I'll still look to improve strength while loosing fat, but I won't be too upset or surprised if gains stop or slow down by a bit.

 

[Davidpaul007]

I can easily add 3-4lbs in a day if i up carbs, don't be concerned.

Looks like you've already made significant strength progress in the first month.

To me you sound too concerned trying to add strength while losing fat. While this is certainly possible under certain circumstances it is not to be expected. My advice is to with focus on cutting or building strength (i hate the bulking term).

When cutting reduce calories to the point where you feel terrible or strength starts to go down....then walk that line until you get as lean as you desire.

Trying to 'recomp' and simultaneously lose fat and gain muscle is a good way to lose focus, have difficulty tracking progress and/or spin your wheels. This generally only works decently for gym nooblets.

 

[z1ggy]

I can easily add 3-4lbs in a day if i up carbs, don't be concerned.

Looks like you've already made significant strength progress in the first month.

To me you sound too concerned trying to add strength while losing fat. While this is certainly possible under certain circumstances it is not to be expected. My advice is to with focus on cutting or building strength (i hate the bulking term).

When cutting reduce calories to the point where you feel terrible or strength starts to go down....then walk that line until you get as lean as you desire.

Trying to 'recomp' and simultaneously lose fat and gain muscle is a good way to lose focus, have difficulty tracking progress and/or spin your wheels. This generally only works decently for gym nooblets.

Well, I am looking to cut right now. My calories are averaging out to be ~2300 per day, or a total deficit of about 3400 a week. I think I am going to cut cals just a touch, down to averaging ~2200 a day, so I'll be a bit around a 4000 cal deficit a week.

I'm guessing strength as gone up while on a cal deficit purely due to noob gains. I'm just recovering the strength in my current muscle that I had all along. I can feel myself slowing down a bit now. I'm betting by 3-4 more weeks, my gains will stop completely, then I may start going in reverse. Totally fine and expected as you said.

Lastly, I reviewed my diet on myfitnesspal. I discovered I was having about double the sodium intake every single day, and about 1/3 the potassium intake everyday. I know micro nutrients aren't as important as cals and macro's, but they would make some difference, mainly in water retention I would assume.

 

[Davidpaul007]

Low potassium can be a problem, but I pay zero attention to sodium personally. Sodium causes you to retain excess water when it suddenly increases beyond what is normal for you. Unless you are dumping salt on everything or eating a ton of pre-packaged junk i wouldn't get too concerned.

Doing good though, thus is how you'win'. Small changes, consistency, tracking progress and analyzing results.

 

[z1ggy]

Low potassium can be a problem, but I pay zero attention to sodium personally. Sodium causes you to retain excess water when it suddenly increases beyond what is normal for you. Unless you are dumping salt on everything or eating a ton of pre-packaged junk i wouldn't get too concerned.

Doing good though, thus is how you'win'. Small changes, consistency, tracking progress and analyzing results.

I was averaging over 4000mg of salt per day, and only like 1500-2000mg of potassium. Mainly due to having those delicious pancakes and mac and cheese on my lifting days. Also, canned beans has a decent amount, but I've now gone to low sodium stuff where I can.

I know it's not a huge deal. Probably more of a mental thing for me to see my weight go down a bit, even if it's just water.

 

[alkemyst]

OP, you really are over thinking/researching all this stuff.

EAT - LIFT - SLEEP.

 

[z1ggy]

My sleep has actually been suffering for a long time, too. Going in for a sleep study next week, possibly going to need a CPAP machine or similar device. I generally get tired/ fall asleep mid day.

But yeah at it's core it's pretty simple things to follow.

 

[JBT]

Z1ggy I feel very sleepy after lunch time if I'me not sleeping well at night. But I believe its related to my lunch meal corresponding to a low in my cicada sleep cycle.

I have found throwing in an audio book and to listen to allows me to fall asleep in 5-10 minutes, possibly even faster on a day I worked out in the morning.

 

[z1ggy]

Z1ggy I feel very sleepy after lunch time if I'me not sleeping well at night. But I believe its related to my lunch meal corresponding to a low in my cicada sleep cycle.

I have found throwing in an audio book and to listen to allows me to fall asleep in 5-10 minutes, possibly even faster on a day I worked out in the morning.

I'll find out for next week, but it has nothing to do with me not being able to fall asleep. I am not breathing right when I sleep, to the point of possibly not breathing at all at certain times. In order to wake one's self up, the brain releases cortisol, which is the same hormone it releases when you are stressed out. Consequently, high levels of the hormone present in the body signals the storage of fat.

So, waking up often during the night due to sleep apnea (lack of proper breathing) may hinder weight loss.

Anyway, I will update in a few weeks with more progress.

Edit: Latest weigh in on a real scale at the gym was 187.8. My home digital one sucks, but I'm using that to track overall trends.

 

[z1ggy]

Little update:

So I have mixed feelings overall about my 6 weeks on this program. I haven't really lost any weight, which I attribute to diet. I think that with this program's eating method, one needs to be incredibly strict, due to the fact you eat such a high calorie content on lift days. Even though I was always having my weekly average be for weight loss, I failed because I had a few binge days where I was supposed to be very low calorie. The lifting was fantastic though, I suspect I might have gained a bit of muscle due to my over eating days and lifting heavy still. Even if I didn't, my strength has gone up a bunch, which is a nice mental perk.

I think I need to get back to basics and stick with what worked for me prior to RPT. Obviously RPT has worked for the poster who put his story up here, and for other clients of Andy Morgan, but I don't think it is for me with respect to cutting. Before this, I was doing MAX OT, which I lost weight on, but gained nothing in strength. I was just eating a constantly low amount of food, which helped me lose weight, but also made me feel weak (due to low carbs).

So I'm sort of combining RPT with MAX OT in a way. Long story short, I am going to keep calories and carbs low for 6 days a week, and refeed with high calories and carbs one day a week so I don't feel weak and depleted in the gym. Also, I'll be lifting 4x a week doing more of a traditional split: Legs/chest/legs&back/shoulders. Might start tossing in cardio at night too, probably some wind sprints or jump rope.

 

[Koing]

It's all in your diet.

You have to be strict on whatever diet you choose. Too many binge days and it's game over for the week.

As long as your average weekly calorie intake is less than your maintenance in a week you will lose weight.

The longer you diet and more weight you lose, the more strength you will lose. It's pretty much impossible to lose 15-25lbs+ and keep it off and not lose strength if your natural. The only exceptions are if you start doing an exercise you have not done for years or never done before. Or you're a beginner in terms of weight training. My bench press and military press went up ONLY because I rarely did these exercise. EVERY other exercise that I trained previously went down hill. Once your weight has stabilised you can build strength back up but as long as you keep losing 1lb a week your strength will slowly keep on dropping.

So for me when I diet I forget about strength gains. I just think about staying as strong as I can and minimising strength loss.

Koing

 

[Koing]

Another thing you could do to make dieting easier is to bulk for 6-8months. Build more strength, muscle and get your metabolism use to dealing with more calories. THEN when you diet you don't have to drop too much below 2000-2200-2400 calories which should make it easier. I was dieting on about 2500-2800 due to the amount of muscle I've built up over the 15yrs and I trained 4x a week. I know not everyone is going to lose weight eating 2500-2800cal. Some guys can eat more and still lose weight! Some guys have to eat a lot less to drop weight.

http://imgur.com/Vy3RtnU

Koing

 

[alkemyst]

Z1ggy, Koing is right on this. I am confused what you want to accomplish. You seem like you want to get more thin/cut and want to bulk at the same time.

It only works if you are a noob/novice and usually that's just past muscle atrophy being restored while you lose fat.

I eat the same way everyday when I train. I may not take the same supplements though.

Your body doesn't work in 24 hour cycles for total nutrition really.

Just get into the groove you are comfortable with and be consistent. That will pay off more than anything.

 

[Davidpaul007]

Little update:

So I have mixed feelings overall about my 6 weeks on this program. I haven't really lost any weight, which I attribute to diet. I think that with this program's eating method, one needs to be incredibly strict, due to the fact you eat such a high calorie content on lift days. Even though I was always having my weekly average be for weight loss, I failed because I had a few binge days where I was supposed to be very low calorie. The lifting was fantastic though, I suspect I might have gained a bit of muscle due to my over eating days and lifting heavy still. Even if I didn't, my strength has gone up a bunch, which is a nice mental perk.

I think I need to get back to basics and stick with what worked for me prior to RPT. Obviously RPT has worked for the poster who put his story up here, and for other clients of Andy Morgan, but I don't think it is for me with respect to cutting. Before this, I was doing MAX OT, which I lost weight on, but gained nothing in strength. I was just eating a constantly low amount of food, which helped me lose weight, but also made me feel weak (due to low carbs).

So I'm sort of combining RPT with MAX OT in a way. Long story short, I am going to keep calories and carbs low for 6 days a week, and refeed with high calories and carbs one day a week so I don't feel weak and depleted in the gym. Also, I'll be lifting 4x a week doing more of a traditional split: Legs/chest/legs&back/shoulders. Might start tossing in cardio at night too, probably some wind sprints or jump rope.

I'm really confused after this: So after trying out RPT you have gained alot of strength but not really lost weight. As a result, you want to change your training style?

Let me be crystal clear: If you did NOT lose weight it has very little to do with your training style and everything to do with your food intake.

But honestly, I fail to see a problem here. In 6 weeks you've maintained your weight but gained strength. How do you think that could happen if you didn't lose fat?

As Koing pointed out- if you have binge days it can be very easy to delete or reverse a caloric deficit. Which brings me to my next point: You were NOT in a 4000 week deficit if you 1) gained strength and 2) didn't lose weight. It's clear to me that your perceived/calculated/guessed maintenance calories is off OR either your tracking method is flawed.

You have a problem here which I believe was clearly identified a while back--lack of clear direction on what you're trying to accomplish right now. Either you decide you want to trim fat or build muscle--stop flopping around in this grey area. As is evident by your previous post this grey area has you all tied up and confused and now you want to change horses mid-stream. Being in a re-comp "grey" area is a very dangerous place to be when you aren't solid on your training and diet fundamentals.

 

[z1ggy]

Too many replies to all include, I'll just adjust 1 by 1.

@Koing, you are correct. It really was diet and lack of discipline, peer pressure to drink and eat while out with friends, etc. Problem is, right now I def do not want to bulk. I am between 16-16% body fat right now, and I don't want that to go any higher. I am happy with most of my strength numbers right now, so if I drop a little, I am ok. Also, I am not advanced...Technically still a beginner given my lifts to body weight ratio.

@Alky, goal is def. fat loss. I think, I get confused/grey area because I'm expecting too much. My ego is too big and I want to keep getting stronger, but looking leaner. I know I need to just pick one.

@DP, It's not a problem per se. I enjoyed the strength gains a lot, it felt great. I think my intent though at first was weight loss. Previously, I was lifting 5x a week, gaining no strength, but I did see some mild weight loss. I was upset for not getting stronger despite my efforts. I fell in love in RPT because I felt like I was eating more even though on paper, my calories were the same as before. I was getting much stronger and I felt better than before, too. I realize though, it was my diet killing me. One binge day on Sunday during football games, and I'm ruined.

I am 100% committing myself now to setting my goal as fat loss while just maintaining as much strength as I can. I am sitting around 16-18% body fat now. I want to cut down to around 12%, then I will train for muscle gains. I'm not going to make it complicated or follow any programs. I think following an exact program gives me anxiety and when it doesn't "work", I start to doubt. Like Alky said, it's just lift, eat, sleep. Just make sure the eating is more strict from now on. I've already told my g/f that we need to avoid eating meals out and going to bars for a while.

 

[Zivic]

if your goal is fat loss, check the weight ego at the door. just make sure your intensity is high and lift as much as you can. You cannot keep fighting the "well I did XXX amount las week for 8 reps and this week I can only do it for 5..." if you have some decent time in with MAX-OT, you should have decent mind muscle connection, have decent control over your muscles, and know where you should be feeling things and what a pump vs a burn out is. forget the weight now, drop your rest times, and work towards that pump. try to increase reps from where max-ot had you, but keep from working out too much in that burn zone. the pump principle still holds, just start training your body with higher volume rep wise.

in the end, it is 100% your diet. if that isn't on point, nothing else matters in terms of weight loss/gain or how you look. if you can't hold your diet, your will be SOL

 

[z1ggy]

^ Thanks for the reply. Yeah I did have a good time in MAX-OT. I will keep that in mind. I am currently keeping my intensity pretty high currently. To not over complicate myself I'm not even worrying about "how many reps should I do" compared to anything. I'm picking weights that I can do generally between 5-8 reps, and rest for 2 mins or less, depending on reps, and going as hard as I can. If I do 10+ reps, I'll add on weight, and vice versa if I can't get 5.

Like Alky said... Eat, lift, sleep. Making it complex is just going to give me anxiety and performance doubts. Whether I end up doing 8 sets of 5 per muscle on that day, or 6 sets of 8 probably won't make a huge difference in my weight loss. I'm just going to lift as hard as I can, and check my ego.

 

[Zivic]

^ Thanks for the reply. Yeah I did have a good time in MAX-OT. I will keep that in mind. I am currently keeping my intensity pretty high currently. To not over complicate myself I'm not even worrying about "how many reps should I do" compared to anything. I'm picking weights that I can do generally between 5-8 reps, and rest for 2 mins or less, depending on reps, and going as hard as I can. If I do 10+ reps, I'll add on weight, and vice versa if I can't get 5.

Like Alky said... Eat, lift, sleep. Making it complex is just going to give me anxiety and performance doubts. Whether I end up doing 8 sets of 5 per muscle on that day, or 6 sets of 8 probably won't make a huge difference in my weight loss. I'm just going to lift as hard as I can, and check my ego.

if you are trying to lose weight, keep the heart rate up during your training... sub 60 second rest times. if you can't do that on a particular lift, superset something else between sets. 2 minutes will still be along the lines of strength gains. don't be afraid of 12 reps....... as long as they aren't burning you out for the majority of them. I still hit the 6 reps but maybe only for 2-3 sets in a workout.

 

[Davidpaul007]

if you are trying to lose weight, keep the heart rate up during your training... sub 60 second rest times. if you can't do that on a particular lift, superset something else between sets. 2 minutes will still be along the lines of strength gains. don't be afraid of 12 reps....... as long as they aren't burning you out for the majority of them. I still hit the 6 reps but maybe only for 2-3 sets in a workout.

I disagree with this advice generally. On paper it sounds reasonable and I have in fact done it this way many times in the past. However, within the past 10 months I've gone the other direction while dieting-- that is, heavy compound movements with maximum weight and lots of rest.

The goal while dieting is to maintain muscle while in a caloric deficit and I believe the best way to tell your body it needs muscle is to pick up heavy things. I tend toward completely separating conditioning from strength training.

If you look at any TDEE calculations it becomes evident the few hours a week you are in the gym has a small impact on overall energy balance for the week.

 

[z1ggy]

if you are trying to lose weight, keep the heart rate up during your training... sub 60 second rest times. if you can't do that on a particular lift, superset something else between sets. 2 minutes will still be along the lines of strength gains. don't be afraid of 12 reps....... as long as they aren't burning you out for the majority of them. I still hit the 6 reps but maybe only for 2-3 sets in a workout.

I disagree with this advice generally. On paper it sounds reasonable and I have in fact done it this way many times in the past. However, within the past 10 months I've gone the other direction while dieting-- that is, heavy compound movements with maximum weight and lots of rest.

The goal while dieting is to maintain muscle while in a caloric deficit and I believe the best way to tell your body it needs muscle is to pick up heavy things. I tend toward completely separating conditioning from strength training.

If you look at any TDEE calculations it becomes evident the few hours a week you are in the gym has a small impact on overall energy balance for the week.

I'd like to hear Zivic's response to this.

My own personal opinion (doesn't carry much weight here... but hey..) is for weight loss specifically, it probably doesn't matter. I would be interested in finding any studies done on this. Take one group who lifts low volume, high weight, and another who lifts higher volume with lighter weight (given the same diet) to see who loses more fat while retaining the most mass.

I'd be willing to wager they would end up being very similar. Of course, I could be totally wrong. But my thinking is, if one is obviously a better choice, all the body building pro's would be doing it that way, and from what I've seen from the pro's I subscribe to on Youtube, there isn't one universal way one should lift during a cut. Seems that, you just need to lift as hard as you can given your limited recovery ability.

 

[Koing]

I'd like to hear Zivic's response to this.

My own personal opinion (doesn't carry much weight here... but hey..) is for weight loss specifically, it probably doesn't matter. I would be interested in finding any studies done on this. Take one group who lifts low volume, high weight, and another who lifts higher volume with lighter weight (given the same diet) to see who loses more fat while retaining the most mass.

I'd be willing to wager they would end up being very similar. Of course, I could be totally wrong. But my thinking is, if one is obviously a better choice, all the body building pro's would be doing it that way, and from what I've seen from the pro's I subscribe to on Youtube, there isn't one universal way one should lift during a cut. Seems that, you just need to lift as hard as you can given your limited recovery ability.

Doesn't really matter. The only difference is if you rest for 2minutes in-between each set your work out takes longer. It doesn't have to one or the other. You could mix and match. I went heavy on the squats, olympic lifts, pulls and bench press. The bodybuilding stuff I'd went higher reps on. Job done.

DIET DIET DIET DIET DIET

Just stick to it for 12-16 weeks and it's over. Job done. I would highly suggest you log everything for a week so you KNOW what you are eating and know exactly what your weekly calorie intake is.

The only reason I suggested a bulk is to increase your strength, muscle and get your body use to using more calories. Then when you cut it'll be easier. When I meant bulk I didn't mean to go crazy and eat everything in sight. Just eat clean foods and go out once in a while. Nothing crazy. Do this for 12-16 weeks then start dieting after this. It should be easier to diet down when you can say lose 1lb a week whilst eating say 2200-2400 calories instead of say less than 2000.

Just some food for thought. Make dieting easier by *slowly bulking* for 12-16 weeks then cut. No point dieting if you can't stick to your diet. It maybe that for you, you have to eat such low calories it makes it much harder. I was struggling with avg about 2500-2700 calories per week. I can only imagine what the effort would be if I had to eat say 1800-2000calories to lose weight.

Koing