Lean Gains by Martin Berkhan

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Davidpaul007

Member
Jul 30, 2009
176
2
81
It's difficult to compare this cut with your last one since there are several things that have changed (lbm, tracking consistency, etc)

I think you have enough fat to lose 2lb/wk without sacrificing muscle provided sufficient protein and training stimulus.

If you are feeling fine I say stick with it a while and be consistent.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
It's difficult to compare this cut with your last one since there are several things that have changed (lbm, tracking consistency, etc)

I think you have enough fat to lose 2lb/wk without sacrificing muscle provided sufficient protein and training stimulus.

If you are feeling fine I say stick with it a while and be consistent.

Hm. I don't think I'm fat enough for 2lb/week, 1.5lb/week is probably the max before I started sacrificing muscle/strength.

Last night I did go to bed hungry, despite eating around 7pm.

And true, apples to apples comparison is impossible I guess. I'm on a different lifting schedule, eating differently and I'm also tracking a lot better now.

I know you are a big proponent of Andy Morgan and RPT. What's your take on refeeds to help replenish glycogen stores? If I remember correctly.. he was into "zig zag" diet. Wasn't for me really, but I think I will still benefit from the occasional day of carb'ing up.
 

Davidpaul007

Member
Jul 30, 2009
176
2
81
Just based on a quick look at your pictures, and nothing else, I put you around 18-20% BF, which is at the lower end of where you can be and still drop 2lbs/wk of fat. I'm basing this off of Andy Morgan's/Martin's/other sources. However, you stated that you have not lost strength and feel fine, that alone tells me that your deficit is probably ok.

I'm not making concrete, adamant recommendations here as I feel that would be irresponsible since I don't fully know your circumstances - take these with a grain a salt and just what I'm spitting out based on what I've learned from this thread over the months - granted I don't have time to go back and fact check everything you've done.

As far as diet, yes Andy uses Carb cycling and so do I - a little more calories (via carbs) on training days and a little less calories (minus some carbs) on rest days. This works well with a 3 day/wk training methodology. Overall, it's the weekly deficit that we are concerned with.

Honestly, I'm not well as well versed in refeed days but it's my understanding those are more necessary under very low calorie diets and/or cyclical ketogenic diets (such as Lyle McDonalds rapid fat loss (RFL) diets). I would implement diet breaks though when necessary. So I don't have to type all that out, my thoughts have been influenced and mirror Andy Morgan's at rippedbody.jp.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Just based on a quick look at your pictures, and nothing else, I put you around 18-20% BF, which is at the lower end of where you can be and still drop 2lbs/wk of fat. I'm basing this off of Andy Morgan's/Martin's/other sources. However, you stated that you have not lost strength and feel fine, that alone tells me that your deficit is probably ok.

I'm not making concrete, adamant recommendations here as I feel that would be irresponsible since I don't fully know your circumstances - take these with a grain a salt and just what I'm spitting out based on what I've learned from this thread over the months - granted I don't have time to go back and fact check everything you've done.

As far as diet, yes Andy uses Carb cycling and so do I - a little more calories (via carbs) on training days and a little less calories (minus some carbs) on rest days. This works well with a 3 day/wk training methodology. Overall, it's the weekly deficit that we are concerned with.

Honestly, I'm not well as well versed in refeed days but it's my understanding those are more necessary under very low calorie diets and/or cyclical ketogenic diets (such as Lyle McDonalds rapid fat loss (RFL) diets). I would implement diet breaks though when necessary. So I don't have to type all that out, my thoughts have been influenced and mirror Andy Morgan's at rippedbody.jp.

Yeah when I started this cut, the bf machine said 18%. When I ended the last one, it said around 15.5%. I have pics of both, not sure what page... but they are in here somewhere. That machine is insanely unreliable though.

Hm... well my current diet has about 160g of carb, which isn't enough for keto, or considered to be low carb. I guess I'll stick with what I'm doing for now til something changes. Thanks!
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Well, bench actually went up today by 1 rep, got 190lb 5x5, last week I missed the last rep on my last set.

Weighed 187.6 this morning.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Still weighing in at 187.6, so good that I'm holding steady.

Here's a pic from about 10 minutes ago. No pump or anything. I tried getting other angles and crap, but it just doesn't work. I haven't seen the g/f in over 2 weeks, so she hasn't been around to take better pictures.

 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Because of the shortened week, and upcoming holiday, I'm making my end of week 5 post today.

As of now, average weight is 186.1, down from 194.1 5 weeks ago. All lifts have gone up slightly, except for squat.. Not sure why.

This weekend I will be "carb-ing up" since I've been on a diet of about ~150g carb a day for well over a month now. I think I set my weekend diet up on MyFitnessPal, and I'll be eating 240g carbs Saturday, and around that much again Sunday, but only going over my calories by about 200 per day. I think it's important to have a carb up day every few weeks to maintain glycogen stores, to help support my heavy lifting.

I expect to weigh a little more Monday, and maybe even all of next week.
 
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Davidpaul007

Member
Jul 30, 2009
176
2
81
A few things to note:
1. Carb up days are necessary under specific circumstances and are done when dieting to curb/reverse the negative hormonal effects of a very low carb diet. You *might* fall into this category since your activity level (workouts and hockey) are moderate with a moderate carb intake.

2. If you really need a full up carb refeed then another 100g each day isn't going to cut it. Suggest checking out Lyle McDonald's significant work on the matter. Overall strategy though is to drop fats very low and jack carbs way up.

Overall, awesome progress, keep it up. The fact that you have dropped that much weight without affecting your lifts should tell you something.

How is your energy level?
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
A few things to note:
1. Carb up days are necessary under specific circumstances and are done when dieting to curb/reverse the negative hormonal effects of a very low carb diet. You *might* fall into this category since your activity level (workouts and hockey) are moderate with a moderate carb intake.

2. If you really need a full up carb refeed then another 100g each day isn't going to cut it. Suggest checking out Lyle McDonald's significant work on the matter. Overall strategy though is to drop fats very low and jack carbs way up.

Overall, awesome progress, keep it up. The fact that you have dropped that much weight without affecting your lifts should tell you something.

How is your energy level?

1. Yeah and hockey is ramping back up. The past 4 weeks I had a break, only played hockey about 3 times. Normally play 3 to 4 times a week, plus my 3 lifts.

2. Hmmm okay I can do some reading today, and I can adjust my intake. My meals for these 2 days are essentially 30oz lean mean, then a home made whole wheat pizza with veggies and cheese. I could skimp on the cheese and have a carby breakfast instead. Or I could go a totally different route, and just have all my meals with about 2-3 cups of whole wheat pasta. So I should be shooting for upwards of 300g carb then?

Energy levels definitely lower. After a hard lift, I can barely stay awake by 8:30-9pm.

Edit: On Lyle M's. website... a lot of stuff to sift through. Could you link me to the article where he talks about carb loading days, etc? I read through some o fhis fat loss articles, but it didn't seem to go into specifics. Only thing I found was a table that described desired carb intake, given your current "situation" ie, endurance athlete... BBer on a carb load.. etc.
 
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z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
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OK I found some info. He says to reefed over 24 or 48 hours 4-6x your LBM in carbs. For me that's about ~620-920g of carbs. At that point, there's no way I can stay around my calorie goal AND eat enough protein, too.

So I assume on the reefed day(s), it's okay to go over calories by a bit, so you hit the carb goal?

Edit: Assuming his number is a good one to go by and I go on the low end, I need at least 620ish carbs this weekend. I'm going to do 310 per day. Probably means the pizza is out, unless I don't use much cheese on it (and lots of tomato). I'll have to check the label when I get to the store after work. I'm craving one so badly.
 
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Davidpaul007

Member
Jul 30, 2009
176
2
81
I've never felt the need to incorporate refeeds like that since I undulate my carb intake through the week...so I can't answer with certainty. However, please keep in mind what I said earlier -- refeeds are utilized under specific circumstances and you may or may not need it.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
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I've never felt the need to incorporate refeeds like that since I undulate my carb intake through the week...so I can't answer with certainty. However, please keep in mind what I said earlier -- refeeds are utilized under specific circumstances and you may or may not need it.

Just checked my log.. my normal macro's are:

protein:185
Carb: 120
fat: 80

I think Lyle defined "low carb" as being around .5g/lb body weight, so I'm not exactly low carb, but I'm definitely toward the lower end, than the medium to high end.

I think I could still benefit from 1 day of higher carbs, once or even twice a month. Hey, I'm still experimenting, as I really haven't truly had a successful cut yet. I'm a work in progress.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Had a pretty good carb up weekend. Didn't attend any Easter dinners so I was able to control my intake pretty well. I ended up having an extra 700g carb over the Friday, Sat Sun long weekend.

Weighed in at 189 this morning, which is to be expected. I definitely didn't drink as much water as I normally do, and with the extra carbs, my body is holding onto as much water as it can. I'll continue on my regular diet again, back down to 120g carb a day and 2050 calories. Will be interested to see what my weight does this week and next.

Once I break through the 185lb mark again, I'll try and get some more pictures.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Pretty busy lately, but I wanted to check in quickly.

I'm deloading a bit this week because I've now gone pretty heavy for 4 weeks straight. I basically cut all my lifts by 20-30%, and raised by reps to 12, and cut my rest down to just 60 or 90 seconds.

With the intensity still high, I got a much better sweat in, than with 5x5. My endurance was not very good though as I was fatiguing quickly.

Overall weight now is a touch over 186lb, and body fat was 15.4%.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Apologies if you've mentioned this before but how are you measuring BF%?

The best I can do is one of those hand held ones. I realize it is one of the least accurate ways to measure, so I take the result as more of a relative measurement, as opposed to absolute. Ie, when I started my cut almost 6 weeks ago, the same machine at the current weight I was at said I was around 18-19%.

I use the scale, bf % plus pictures to get a more accurate story. If my body fat didn't change much, but my weight went down, and my abs look more defined, then I'm going to conclude I have lost fat, but the measurement was slightly off at that time. I think it's safe to assume that I've lost some fat because after almost 6 weeks, my average weight has gone from 194 --> 186 and bf % from ~18% to 15%.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
So anyway, getting back to heavy lifting this week. Replacing my regular Dead Lift with Sumo to try and get some more leg strengthening in on top of my squats. Honestly, I'm feeling much weaker now.. The lower calories and carbs are really effecting me now. It's kind of an ego hit to see my lifts slowly go down a bit, but hey it is what it is.. the goal right now is fat loss.

As of today I am 184lb, but I pissed an insane amount to today, so I was probably a little dehydrated from the weekend. I'm hoping my strength will go back up a little bit in the next few weeks... maybe today was just a bad lift.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Wanted to give you guys an updated pic. Sorry that it's a "selfie" but it's really the best I can do. I barely see my g/f any more and just don't get the chance for her to grab good pics. As I said above, I'm about ~15.5% body fat now.

 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Interesting interview with Arnold. Granted, when he's referring to his time cutting.. Not sure if he was on vitamin R or not. But contrary to what a lot of folks suggest these days, Arnold claimed he did tons of volume, even MORE than when he bulked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcM9CZMMDkU

Otherwise he does have some good info here for anybody who's been checking in on this thread over time. Mind muscle connection, intensity.. All things that one needs to do to lock in those gains.

PS Arnold's chain looks like anal beads. ...... -_-
 

Davidpaul007

Member
Jul 30, 2009
176
2
81
Arnold was known for high volume...and of course he was on vit R...otherwise he could not have recovered from his workouts.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
So I really haven't lost any weight since my last post here, so I think that indicates it's time to lower calories by a bit. There's really no way I can up my activity any more; I'm lifting 3x a week and playing hockey 3x a week. I'm considering buying the Microsoft Band, which is basically a fancier version of a Fit Bit. Reason is to see how many calories I am actually burning during the day and adjust in take from there.

On a positive though, My lifts are still slooooowly going up. I'll gain an extra rep or 2 every few weeks on my compounds.

Plan to drop from ~2100 cal a day down to 2000 and see where that lands me, keeping activity the same. If it doesn't do anything, I may need to take a diet break for a few days (assuming no weight loss means metabolism is slowed down by a lot) or try upping my activity even more.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Ok check that, just weighed in at 183.5 .... weird. I was 185.6 this morning.

....I did take 2 massive dumps today at work. That's probably why I'm lower now.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Planning to up my activity to see if I can break through this little plateau I'm having. Going from 3x lift to 4x lift a week now. Split will be pull, push, rest, pull, push, rest rest.

Pull day 1 will be DL + Back and Pull day 2 will be Squat + back. I know technically squat is a push, but I've never been a fan of squatting on the same day as I bench. Essentially, I'm just looking to do legs 2x a week now, and since I've upped my time spent in the gym, I can fit that in. Hopefully this helps burn a few more calories and up my metabolism.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
So, odd weekend kind of. Weighed myself on the scale at the gym... 183.8lb. Home scale (which I normally use) said about 185.6 right when I got home. The gym scale is the one where you move the little blocks around til the lever evens out... So know whos which one is right.

I guess that brings me to second point which is... I'm down down another belt loop. Size 36 belt, on 5th notce in from the last. Not sure how belts are measured, but I know before late last year when I was at my heaviest, I was usually on the 3rd notch. Assuming each notice is about one inch, that would put me down 2'' on the waist now.

Gym is now up to 5x per week so I get in more activity with out eating less. Lifts slowly going up still.

Thanks for all the support.
 
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