Lean Gains by Martin Berkhan

[rga]

So, odd weekend kind of. Weighed myself on the scale at the gym... 183.8lb. Home scale (which I normally use) said about 185.6 right when I got home. The gym scale is the one where you move the little blocks around til the lever evens out... So know whos which one is right.

I guess that brings me to second point which is... I'm down down another belt loop. Size 36 belt, on 5th notce in from the last. Not sure how belts are measured, but I know before late last year when I was at my heaviest, I was usually on the 3rd notch. Assuming each notice is about one inch, that would put me down 2'' on the waist now.

Gym is now up to 5x per week so I get in more activity with out eating less. Lifts slowly going up still.

Thanks for all the support.

Are you really down another belt size, or just back to the belt size you were a year ago at 186 lbs. and ~16% bf?

BW= 185-187
BF = ~16%

BMR for my weight, height & age was around 1900cal. For light exercise 3-5days a week I believe the calc said maint. level would be around 2300cal. So to cut the ol' 3500cal/week, I am aiming at around 1800cal net per day. I actually eat closer to 1900cal on my lift days. I don't really think I am burning more than 100-150cal a day from lifts + cardio.

Do you think I need to eat more? Goal right now is to cut down to about 12% fat, then bulk up and assuming I'll gain maybe 1lb fat per every 2-3lb muscle I gain, I'd prob bulk up to around 15-16% fat again, then do a final cut down to 10% or so.

I don't really know the best way to do it, but ultimately I'd like to be around 10-11% body fat @ around 185lb.

Edit:
Fack I'm redoing my macro's and I'd been using the "sedentary" numbers -_- For "moderately active (1-3days/week exercise)" and "active (5days/week)" my cal needs would be around 2500 and 2750 respectively. So to lose 1lb/week I should actually be eating more like 2000-2300cals/day.

I'll prob cut the dif and call it ~2150 as I really don't feel like I'm doing "moderate" exercise 3-5 days a week. My lift is 20-25mins followed by a fairly intense plyo/cardio session for 5-10min. Idk, I figure a moderate work out would last at least an hour.

No wonder I haven't lost weight but have lost strength. I've probably been cutting like 7000 cals a week 0_0. Seeing as I only need to drop around 10-12lb, I'm guessing my body went into starvation mode.

Your goal was to be your current weight (~185) at ~10% body fat. If you're the same weight and the same bodyfat percentage you were a year ago, you haven't really put on any lean mass.

 

[z1ggy]

Are you really down another belt size, or just back to the belt size you were a year ago at 186 lbs. and ~16% bf?


I've always been on the 4th notch on this belt, never been the 5th.

Your goal was to be your current weight (~185) at ~10% body fat. If you're the same weight and the same bodyfat percentage you were a year ago, you haven't really put on any lean mass.

Goals are general targets; something to aim for. As it stands right now, I'm happy with my progress. My waist line is smaller than before, yet I'm about the same weight when I ended my last "cut". I think my 10% @ 185 was unrealistic, because of muscle loss during the long amounts of time spent in a catabolic state. A specific weight not longer really matters to me. I'm not competing in any type of event which requires my weight to be a certain amount. What matters the most is keeping my strength up, while my body fat % increases. Obviously I don't want to lose lots of muscle.

Thanks for the input.

 

[z1ggy]

Found out girl who works at my gym is a fitness model. She has a coach and is going to give me his info. I'm thinking about talking to him and potentially signing up for a physique contest, probably taking place next summer.

I really want to set a hard goal for myself to strive toward. Doing this little blog does hold me accountable (because if I fail, I look like a douche) but on the whole, it's not going to embarrass me or something if I disappoint you all. But, I think if I set myself up to do something like that, I'll be more strict with diet, I won't ever skip the gym, and I'll work out even harder. If I get a pro coach to help me, I think it will put me on a better path.

Like right now, I've hit a pretty hard plateau. I'm stuck around 184-185 no matter what I do. I've upped my lifting from 3 to 5x a week, and I'm adding in 2x a week of HIIT. Granted, it's just been just 3 weeks of lifting 5x a week again... I should be a solid 183.5 or 184, which I'm not. My diet has been good, I did diet break for one day, but I tracked everything and I didn't go over my calories by much. ONE day shouldn't kill me.. But maybe with higher carbs/salt.. It's keeping me higher. I'm still on that lower belt notch, so that's a good sign. Lifts are still going up too, which is nice. I'll be switching up to Matt Ogus' cutting diet per his recent video, which is a very low sodium, very clean diet.

I'll let you guys know if I end up hiring this coach, and what he says, etc. I think if he's not too pricey, and his plan for me is realistic, I will go for it.

 

[z1ggy]

Looked into the physique coach.. He's pretty expensive. Once I have my finances in order, (hopefully soon) I may hire him for a month and use him as a little kick starter for whatever my goal is at that time. By then I could potentially be back into my slow bulk.

Anyway, I have been using a Fitbit for the past 7 days. Surprisingly, my average calorie burn per day has been just shy of 3300 calories, with 1 day hitting 3600 and another hitting 3700. This is pretty surprising to me as I figured I was burning no more than 2700 on a good day. This has prompted me to up my calories even more per the Matt Ogus video as described above. I'm now consuming 2700-3100 calories a day, depending on the activities. Saturday is almost always a low key day, so that day I only ate around 2200.

As always guys, thanks for reading and for the support. I hope to make some more progress soon. I'll try to get updated pics in here soon, too. If you have any suggestions or advice for me, please go on ahead and leave it here.

 

[Headfoot]

It's all just bro science really. I'm under the impression that no matter when or how often you eat it still just comes down to calories in vs. calories out.

Wrong.

http://www.lift-heavy.com/intermittent-fasting/. Research review showing the science completely supports IF as having benefits in addition to calories in calories out

 

[Headfoot]

Just checked my log.. my normal macro's are:

protein:185
Carb: 120
fat: 80

I think Lyle defined "low carb" as being around .5g/lb body weight, so I'm not exactly low carb, but I'm definitely toward the lower end, than the medium to high end.

I think I could still benefit from 1 day of higher carbs, once or even twice a month. Hey, I'm still experimenting, as I really haven't truly had a successful cut yet. I'm a work in progress.

Check out Carb Cycling. I've found it very helpful. The goal is to eat most your carbs (up to 250-300g depending on your weight) post work out only on work out days, and go low carb on off days. This is the Leangains approach. Insulin is anabolic so that fuels muscle growth while the low carb (in keto range) off days burn fat. Total calorie deficit is of course still required.

 

[z1ggy]

Check out Carb Cycling. I've found it very helpful. The goal is to eat most your carbs (up to 250-300g depending on your weight) post work out only on work out days, and go low carb on off days. This is the Leangains approach. Insulin is anabolic so that fuels muscle growth while the low carb (in keto range) off days burn fat. Total calorie deficit is of course still required.

This is pretty much what I am doing now. Although, can muscle really grow if I'm still on a caloric deficit everyday? If anything, I'd assume it would just help retain it during a cutting phase. Additionally, after getting my Fitbit, I found out my average weekly calorie burn is about 3200 (and not 2600-2700) and somedays it's as high as 3600. So, I've upped my carbs to around the 200-250 mark, depending on the day.

Also, just got my body fat measured with calipers. Just a touch over 15%.

 

[Headfoot]

First, your genetics need to allow sufficiently good nutrient partitioning to allow you to "recomp" as it were. If your genetics allow it to happen at all, it will happen most effectively on a carb cycling diet. All diets by folks in the know (Borgeli, Berkhan, Lyle McDonald, Brad Pilon) are moving this way now.

Basically, if you can't recomp on carb cycling, you can't recomp at all. Which is certainly possible. It depends largely on your genetics, and where you are in the workout lifespan. People with noob gains left can easily gain muscle and lose fat carb cycling. If you've been lifting for years already then it can still work but if it does it will be slow. I wouldn't suggest you try to recomp.

If you do a carb cycling cut, it will allow you to not lose strength and muscle while still cutting. It's basically a smarter way of cutting. Because you get to eat a lot of carbs in one sitting at times it hardly feels like a diet. Don't expect your muscle to grow here, but you can ward off the typical muscle loss that usually accompanies poorly done cuts. Set your deficit at -750 to -875 on off days and eat at maintenance on lifting days. Keep carbs under 50g on off days within that calorie budget. That will target a little less than a pound a week of pure fat loss only. A more aggressive deficit will just lose you muscle unless you have better than average genetics or you're on performance enhancing drugs.

You will notice an added Pavlovian mental benefit where you subconsciously begin to associate lifting with a carb "reward." You'll get uneasy eating carbs when you haven't worked out, which makes diet compliance easier.

If you've dieted too hard recently and lost strength as it seems from your earlier posts, you need to do a reverse diet and undo metabolic damage. Your basal metabolic rate is suppressed and it will just frustrate you. I found that for me personally, my base metabolic rate takes a dump after about 13-14 weeks of cutting and I have to reverse diet back up before I can continue effectively. Google "reverse diet." The long and short of it is increase from your current calorie budget by 50 cal/day (350 a week) until you hit maintenance calories (e.g. you start gaining weight again). Your metabolism will upregulate to match your intake up to a certain point -- that point is your maintenance value. Once you start gaining weight (measured by weekly rolling average, not day to day fluctuations), set your new macros and go. http://www.lgmacros.com/standard-leangains-macro-calculator/#.VXm_WHnbKUk

I've never found a calculated value that worked out to my actual BMR. I've always had to take a stab, then adjust values by weekly average to find out my real maintenance value. Once you know this, its just math.

 

[z1ggy]

If you do a carb cycling cut, it will allow you to not lose strength and muscle while still cutting. It's basically a smarter way of cutting. Because you get to eat a lot of carbs in one sitting at times it hardly feels like a diet. Don't expect your muscle to grow here, but you can ward off the typical muscle loss that usually accompanies poorly done cuts. Set your deficit at -750 to -875 on off days and eat at maintenance on lifting days. Keep carbs under 50g on off days within that calorie budget. That will target a little less than a pound a week of pure fat loss only. A more aggressive deficit will just lose you muscle unless you have better than average genetics or you're on performance enhancing drugs.

Well I am currently lifting 5x a week and on one of my off days, I play roller hockey, so if I ate at maint. on work out days, I've basically not be able to eat on my off day in order to keep a caloric deficit, so that doesn't really work for me. On some of my lift days, I would have to eat less.

You will notice an added Pavlovian mental benefit where you subconsciously begin to associate lifting with a carb "reward." You'll get uneasy eating carbs when you haven't worked out, which makes diet compliance easier.
Agreed. I love the fact that after my work out, I come back to my desk and destroy 8oz of turkey with sweet potatoes and some oats. Then I have some low sugar cereal with peanut butter. It's great.

If you've dieted too hard recently and lost strength as it seems from your earlier posts, you need to do a reverse diet and undo metabolic damage. Your basal metabolic rate is suppressed and it will just frustrate you. I found that for me personally, my base metabolic rate takes a dump after about 13-14 weeks of cutting and I have to reverse diet back up before I can continue effectively. Google "reverse diet." The long and short of it is increase from your current calorie budget by 50 cal/day (350 a week) until you hit maintenance calories (e.g. you start gaining weight again). Your metabolism will upregulate to match your intake up to a certain point -- that point is your maintenance value. Once you start gaining weight (measured by weekly rolling average, not day to day fluctuations), set your new macros and go. http://www.lgmacros.com/standard-leangains-macro-calculator/#.VXm_WHnbKUk

I've never found a calculated value that worked out to my actual BMR. I've always had to take a stab, then adjust values by weekly average to find out my real maintenance value. Once you know this, its just math.
My fitbit has revealed to me that I have been eating quite a bit too low for a very long time. I upped my calories from 2100-2200 to 2700-3200, depending if I have hockey that day with a lift as well. So far, been eating 500+ calories a day, and haven't really gained any weight. Clearly, my metabolism had taken a dump and was crawling, and probably still is a bit. I figure in another week or two, it will have recovered. [/b]

See bolded responses

 

[RibeyeAndScotch]

Just a tip for those who hit fat loss plateau's....

Introduce HIIT 3x a week in 30 min sessions (preferably on non-lifting days)

HIIT can be something as impact-less as stationary bike.

 

[z1ggy]

Average weight on my home scale, now pointing to me being 183.6lb. I guess it's a small stride in the right direction again. Eating 2700 cal on lift/ days, 3200 cal on days where I lift and play hockey, 3000 on just a hockey day (usually Sunday) and then about 2200 on Saturday, which is the only day of the week where I rest from most intense activity.

My bench press has stalled, topping out at 205. I plan to drop down to 185 and then work my way back up again. Squat is still going up, current at 235, and dead lift is still going up, currently at 275.

I'm still planning on hiring a physique coach, I just haven't picked one yet. Since I foundthere aren't any IFBB coaches in this area, I will have to use an email only system. That means I can pick anybody on the planet really who gets clients good results. I've gotten a few recommendations from acquaintances, but I'm also going to try and email some youtuber's that I subscribe to and see if they can take on any more people.

 

[Davidpaul007]

If your strength is not increasing you're not building muscle...and if your weight isn't going down then you're not losing fat. Ie, if your weight was stalled but your strength was increasing than the argument could be made you were recomping.

Sounds like you are having alot of activity outside the gym which will negatively impact muscle gain at some point.

My suggestion would be to lower calories.

 

[z1ggy]

If your strength is not increasing you're not building muscle...and if your weight isn't going down then you're not losing fat. Ie, if your weight was stalled but your strength was increasing than the argument could be made you were recomping.

Sounds like you are having alot of activity outside the gym which will negatively impact muscle gain at some point.

My suggestion would be to lower calories.

By how much? Obviously my problem when I was sitting around the 185lb mark @ 2200 cals average per day, was I was eating too little which slowed my metab down, and not allowing me more weight loss.

I changed cals and now average around 2700-2800 cal a day and have lost weight, but only upped activity by about 600 cals a week (2x extra gym day). My deficit is sitting around the 400cal a day mark on average, maybe a little less depending on if I got really hungry.

I respect you DP because you got great results, so I'd like to hear why you think I need to cut cals even more? If you want, you can just PM me, don't need to hash that out here.

 

[Davidpaul007]

Z1ggy, I'll respond here for other's benefit. I wish there was a simple answer to your conundrum. The fact of the matter is that you have a lot of variables in your "equation" right now - just to mention a few: training frequency, intensity, food intake - but at the end of the day (as stated before) if weight isn't going down your calories are too high.

Just to state some info that you or other readers may not be familiar with: our bodies are adaptation machines and reducing or increasing intake will result in a change in TDEE - oh, and guess what, this response is highly individual. You know that guy that is lean and can't seem to gain weight no matter how much he eats? His body ramps up the caloric output when intake goes -- up more-so than maybe you or I. On the flip side, that same guy's body will "shred up" quickly because those same processes that slow the rest of us down from losing fat aren't as pronounced for him.

I say all that frame the situation a little - if in fact you were at 2200 cals/day avg. and not losing weight (which this in itself comes with a lot of possible misplaced assumptions) it's possible your metabolism down-regulated enough so that weight loss slowed, or stopped - or perhaps your reporting/tracking methods were off just enough so that your deficit was actually only 100 cal/day average and thus it would take weeks for that to actually show up on the scale (consider how erratic and unpredictable scale weight can be). If this was the case, then how would I explain you dropping weight after increasing calories? Without having all your data points and just seeing that your scale weight is now 183.6 (down from 185) it doesn't tell me much. It sure looks like there is a correlation between increasing calories and your weight going down but I would be more apt to think there is a confounding variable at play you're not aware of. You're familiar with the saying correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation right?

Are you familiar with cortisol? It's a stress hormone. Our bodies deal with acute stress (meaning short duration) well - on the other hand, chronic stress (long term) is detrimental. Being in a hypocaloric state, excessive exercise and various other "life stresses" can lead to chronic stress on our bodies where cortisol is elevated which in turn can lead to water gain. I'm not saying this is what's going on with you, but it's certainly within the realm of possibility and possibly why slightly raising calories appeared to help you shed a little weight.

As a quick aside: when trying to dial in a diet and lose body-fat for someone relatively lean I think it's helpful to look at multiple pieces of data for the overall picture - meaning scale weight (7 day average), skin-fold readings, pictures, and measurements. Each of these assessment tools alone is not necessarily sufficient and can mis-represent what's actually happening to your body but when you look at all of them together the picture often becomes clearer.

Some side notes that I'm too lazy to put into a cohesive response (haha):
1. Another posted stated that you might benefit from doing a reverse diet to undo "metabolic damage". I disagree for a couple of reasons 1) the whole "metabolic damage" phenomenon is mostly overblown - not saying that metabolic adaptation doesn't occur (research has shown that it does) but to truly depress your metabolism takes a severe deficit and an extended period in that deficit 2)down regulation of your TDEE is expected in a caloric deficit, and has been shown to be about 15% when you take out TEF, and the change in TDEE associated with a smaller body. If anything you MIGHT benefit from a "diet break" to allow various hormones time to recover - 1-2 weeks of eating at maintenance should bring things back up to decent levels unless you have truly wrecked your metabolic state - which I highly doubt.

1a. The same poster recommended going low carb on off days, as low as 50g, and I think this is bad advice for you. Research has shown no long-term benefits to either LCHF (low carb, high fat) or HCLF (high carb low fat) under isocaloric (meaning calorie matched) diets when protein is sufficient. The right choice here comes down to individual preference with my preference being more of a moderate approach. I believe a LCHF might not be the best choice for you simply because of the amount of activity you engage in.

2. Are you weighing or measuring your food? Especially things like peanut butter (you mentioned you like it on cereal) - always go by weight, not volume.

3. I'm of the opinion you are doing too much. Lifting 5 days a week, hockey, HIIT - good grief. You can't expect to gain strength, in a deficit, with that much activity. In fact, I actually think all that activity could be hindering your progress and furthermore possibly leading to gradual strength loss. I know this idea is counter-intuitive to some, but our bodies are very complex systems designed to survive - not look shredded on the beach. In a deficit our recovery capacity greatly diminishes and you are just piling more and more onto your already stressed system.

4. Have you ever had blood work done to look at your hormone levels? Issues with your pituitary gland, thyroid etc. can lead to issues when trying to get lean.

And finally, if I were to make an educated but probably mis-informed recommendation for you specifically I'd drop your weekly average down a few hundred and see what happens after 2 weeks. I know the fitbit is saying your average is 3200 but consider that the fitbit is only monitoring heart rate and body weight - there are far more variables than that which factor in to how many calories your body is burning daily.

 

[blackdogdeek]

How much protein were you eating at 185@2200?

Also, how are you determining food weight/calories?

I started a cut at 185lbs on 7 Apr and this morning weighed in at 163lbs. But, I'm only 5'6" so I obviously had a lot of fat to lose. I've been eating 2079 cals a day, everyday, with 166g of protein. I crossfit 6 days a week (M-Sa). I've been following Flexible Dieting 2.0, which is basically IIFYM but with an emphasis on lean protein and veggies but I still eat potato chips and ice cream almost daily.

 

[z1ggy]

............

2. Are you weighing or measuring your food? Especially things like peanut butter (you mentioned you like it on cereal) - always go by weight, not volume.

...........
4. Have you ever had blood work done to look at your hormone levels? Issues with your pituitary gland, thyroid etc. can lead to issues when trying to get lean.

And finally, if I were to make an educated but probably mis-informed recommendation for you specifically I'd drop your weekly average down a few hundred and see what happens after 2 weeks. I know the fitbit is saying your average is 3200 but consider that the fitbit is only monitoring heart rate and body weight - there are far more variables than that which factor in to how many calories your body is burning daily.

2. Yes I measure everything, even sauces I add to food or oil I use for pan lube. However, I don't measure every single time, ie, I measure it once, record it in Myfitnesspal, then just make sure I do the exact same thing every time. If I change my meal, I will measure the new food items, or if I can't measure, I'll do my best to approximate. I generally eat the EXACT same thing Monday- Friday. I don't do office treats that people bring in, etc. The only variables I have, would be on weekends, say my g/f and I go out to dinner, etc. But even then, I'll grab a fish or chicken dinner, no pasta, etc etc. I realize I potentially may be under estimating my calories by a little bit, so maybe my weekly food intake is 50cals over or something, but I wouldn't think it's hundreds over as to slow down fat loss to 0.

4. Yes last year. However, my doctor is a freakin crock. All I did was say, ok I feel tired a little bit too much, I'm not sleeping well, yadda yadda. He sent me with an Rx for blood work, but I had no idea the test types I got done to the blood. I brought the results back to him and he just looked and went oh okay you're normal, I'm not sure what's wrong with you, ok bye. I also h ave had a sleep test done... No sleep apnea according to the doctors, but I do wake up throughout the night a lot, according to my fitbit, sometimes over 20x a night. So, I was told my kidney, liver, thyroid and T related levels were all normal, but honestly I'm not sure. I may schedule an Endocrine doctor visit.

As far as activity goes... The hockey I can't really cut out, I like playing, it is what it is. I also only have a limited amount of gym time per day because I lift while at work (gym is inside the facility) so doing short sessions 5x a week just works better for me. I could do 3x a week, but I'd end up there for 1.5-2hrs to fit everything in. I just don't have time for that.

I can cut calories by 100 average per week to see what happens.

How much protein were you eating at 185@2200?

Also, how are you determining food weight/calories?

I started a cut at 185lbs on 7 Apr and this morning weighed in at 163lbs. But, I'm only 5'6" so I obviously had a lot of fat to lose. I've been eating 2079 cals a day, everyday, with 166g of protein. I crossfit 6 days a week (M-Sa). I've been following Flexible Dieting 2.0, which is basically IIFYM but with an emphasis on lean protein and veggies but I still eat potato chips and ice cream almost daily.

@ 185/2200 my protein is about the same as what it is right now; ~180-190g a day, depending on the exact weight of my protein source for dinner. I upped my calories purely by adding carbs and just a little bit of fat, I held protein constant.

And yeahhhh for me genetically, I am the exact opposite of "hard gainer", maybe I'm an "easy gainer". I can pack on pounds like nobody's business. When I had my growth spurt in HS, I gained over 40lb in one year, and it wasn't much fat. Any time I end up in a caloric surplus for an extended period of time, I have no issues gaining weight, whether it be fat or muscle. But, to really say that one way or another, I need to really control all the variables, maybe my weight gain in the past was easy because I just had no diet control.

Additionally, I'm about 3.5 inches taller than you so that does make a difference, too. Good job on the weight loss though.

 

[Davidpaul007]

A couple suggestions:
1) start weighing everything you eat and "test" you eyeballing ability. Even being off 20--30 grams here and there can add up to significant calories over the course of a week.

2) since you're having issues with sleep, that's a big concern. I can't over emphasize the need for adequate quality sleep especially while cutting fat. Something is going on with your body that needs to be addressed. An endocrinologist might be a good person to talk too. Another thing to look into is adrenal fatigue. Check out the symptoms and see if that might be something else causing issues.

 

[z1ggy]

A couple suggestions:
1) start weighing everything you eat and "test" you eyeballing ability. Even being off 20--30 grams here and there can add up to significant calories over the course of a week.

2) since you're having issues with sleep, that's a big concern. I can't over emphasize the need for adequate quality sleep especially while cutting fat. Something is going on with your body that needs to be addressed. An endocrinologist might be a good person to talk too. Another thing to look into is adrenal fatigue. Check out the symptoms and see if that might be something else causing issues.

1. The only things I eye ball now are my peanut butter, and my almond milk that I add to my oatmeal. I can recheck my eyeballing to see if I'm putting on a lot more than I think. And honestly I could easily just use a measuring cup again for the almond milk. I just eyeball the PB because it's a pain to get out of the tablespoon.

2. OK. Yeah the sleep thing sucks because it almost is making me really just... lazy I guess? If I go and get specific levels tested and I'm normal, I would have to guess it's either anxiety related, or food allergen related.

Took an adrenal gland fatigue quiz. I scored in an area that indicated I have "mild adrenal gland fatigue" issues. It's not totally alarming, but it's something I would bring up to the endocrinologist. What is alarming though, is there are some asterisked questions that the test says if those questions add up to a certain score or more, you should consult a doctor pretty quickly. I scored 1 point below the amount for that, so it's possible I have some hormonal issues. Wiki says it's not really an accepted disease though, so I'm not totally sure how to approach this.

The term "adrenal fatigue", which was coined in 1998 by James M. Wilson,[4] may be applied to a collection of mostly nonspecific symptoms.[1] There is no scientific evidence supporting the concept of adrenal fatigue and it is not recognized as an actual diagnosis by the medical community.[3]

 

[blackdogdeek]

I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't eating enough to fuel all of your activity and upping your carbs/fat kickstarted your fat loss. How long did you eat at 2700?

 

[Koing]

You don't need a coach. You need to track macros religiously. No coach is going to get any results out of anyone if the person doesn't track EVERYTHING they eat. They need to know 100% exactly what you put in to your body. Then they can adjust.

You are doing a lot more training then I did. I lifted 3x a week and played Tennis once a week. I just ate less, weighed everything and dropped fat consistently for months. The only times I didn't lose weight on my 7 day average was because I messed up and blew up and binged . I also started my cut on too few calories which was my biggest mistake.

I was having about 240-250g of protein a day.

Koing

 

[z1ggy]

I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't eating enough to fuel all of your activity and upping your carbs/fat kickstarted your fat loss. How long did you eat at 2700?

3 weeks, now going into week 4 of higher cals.

You don't need a coach. You need to track macros religiously. No coach is going to get any results out of anyone if the person doesn't track EVERYTHING they eat. They need to know 100% exactly what you put in to your body. Then they can adjust.

You are doing a lot more training then I did. I lifted 3x a week and played Tennis once a week. I just ate less, weighed everything and dropped fat consistently for months. The only times I didn't lose weight on my 7 day average was because I messed up and blew up and binged . I also started my cut on too few calories which was my biggest mistake.

I was having about 240-250g of protein a day.

Koing

Right, of course. They can't just magically get results for me if I'm not doing the right stuff on my own.

How many pounds were you weighing? Did you eat that much protein for any particular reason? Seems like overkill other than using it to replace carbs.

Also, how long were your lifting sessions? The most I can do is 45mins, because I am at work while I work out (gym inside building). If I went just 3x a week, I'd have to do almost double the lift time, which my boss wouldn't really like...

 

[z1ggy]

Haven't forgotten about this... I've been fairly busy, and my computer broke recently.

Last weigh in was 180.4lb on Saturday. Feeling pretty good about myself that I seemed to break through that plateau of about 184lb. Currently, really into the Kinobody diet/work out plan. It's basically a back to basics approach, and I really like it. If at all interested just search "Kinobody" on youtube/Google.

It's a 3x a week split, with two upper body days, and 1 lower body day. Intermittent fasting is suggested, and I have successfully been doing it again thus far. The lifting plan is a cutting routine, so the focus is on compound heavy lifting, RPT style (which I had done way back when, and had success with strength gains). For the most part, none of my lifts have gone up too much, partly because I'm eating a bit less now (2400 cals, except hockey day, I'll have more) and because I've generally been catabolic on average for so long.

I took a picture about 2 days ago, I just have to get my computer up and running and I will post it.

This ends my cutting phase. I think originally 6 months ago I said I wanted to get to 175 or so? I can't remember, but honestly, I'm really happy I got to 180, and I certainly added a little bit of strength. For the next week or so, I'll be upping cals slightly to maint. levels to get my body out of that catabolic state, and get it ready to put on muscle.

Ideally, I really would like to do a leangains approach. I plan to eat just 100 cals or so above maint. per day, giving me just under 1lb weight gain per month. I'd like to not gain much, if any fat during this phase so I don't need to ever do another 6 month cut again. I'd like to at a maximum, do small mini 3-4 week cuts from here on out, while slowly adding muscle.

I plan on still lifting just 3x a week, which kind of goes against all the brosci out there with regards to adding mass. I think 3x a week is more in tune with how my body runs. I generally take a long time to recover and when I was on 5+ days a week lifting, after a few months I felt run down and crappy.

Anyway, now that I am transitioning into more of this slow bulking stuff, results will be pretty slow and minimal. I'll probably post pics every now and then and give minor updates if I hit lifting PR's, etc. I hope to join this forums elite members of both physique and strength some day. Thanks all.

 

[z1ggy]

Wanted to chime in and just update briefly on the routine I'm going to be doing over the next 6 months or so. My comp is still broke, but I should get it up and running this week to post the most recent photos I have on progress.

Mon - Chest & Tri
Tues- Stretching & Abs
Weds - Back & Bi
Thurs- Stretching & Abs
Fri - Legs & Shoulders

Each lift day, I will be doing "Dual Pyramid" style training. That is, a combo of RPT style heavy compound lifts, combined with regular pyramid style isolation movements. Each day, I will do about 20 sets, 8-9 RPT heavy compound sets, and about 12 sets of high rep, low rest isolation moves.

For abs, I only do about 3-4 different movements, 8-12 slow, controlled reps. I like to do hanging leg raises (add weight if need be), bicycles, reverse crunches, and wood choppers. About 12-15 total sets each day.

I will probably update this thread like once a month on strength gains. Weight gains and other changes really (and hopefully) will not come all too fast, since I'm looking to bulk slowly here. I may take a pic 3 months in, then at the very end of the bulk phase right after my Bday in march. Then I will do a 8-12 week cut for summer... Rinse and repeat!

Thanks guys.

 

[z1ggy]

K computer is back up at home. As promised, here is my "before" and "after" photos. First I believe I posted about 6 months ago and the second is from about 3 weeks ago right before the end of my cut. I definitely see a difference in my body.

Before ( ~6 months ago)

After (~3 weeks ago)

First photo, I'll admit I was sucking in the ol gut a bit. 2nd photo I'm completely unflexed and have no pump. I hope you guys think I'm getting some results here.

 

[z1ggy]

So I've spent the time between this last post and right now in a bulking mode. Gained ~20lb. Yep, I ate too much, no need to tell me that. I'm hoping that at least 5-6 pounds of it is muscle and that I'm carrying a decent amount of water.

I'm planning to spend the next 2 weeks or so easing my way into the cut phase. I plan on doing IF again and eating 2200cals a day. I'm currently not fasting and was eating around 3100 cals a day and not really being too strict. Plan is to try and spend this week delaying breakfast a few hours... next week another hour... and then by Feb 1, be able to do a full 16 hour fast. I will be taking an EC stack to help with hunger issues and reap the potential metabolism boosting affects.

Lastly, I will be lifting 4x a week, vice 3x on the previous cut. I will be doing a M/T/Th/F split. Weds will either be pure low intensity cardio, or just rest, depending how I am feeling. I'm going to listen to my body, so I have no real "plan" in place are far as sets, reps, etc. My general rule of thumb is to get at least 4 sets per muscle in per lift, and stay in the 8-12 rep range. I may go for one heavier day, and one lighter day to try and help maintain strength.

Mon: Benchpress, Pull ups, OHP (or Facepulls & Lat raise, I have shoulder problems)
Tues: Squat, Hamstring Curls, Hip/Glute Bridge, Abs
Weds: ~6mph walk, 3-4 incline, ~45-60mins
Thurs: Same as Mon
Fri: Same as Tues

Migjt switch some lifts for others every few weeks. Ie, bench ---> slow pushes on physio-ball, Pull ups ---> 1arm Dumbell Row, etc.

I know diet is key here. I've hopefully laid out a meal plan that I can stick to easily and won't ever even want to cheat. I'll be using a lot of frozen veggies and fattier meats.

I'll post a starting picture once I begin, and I'll post updates along the way. Thanks in advance for any advice.