Learning Chinese?

Literati

Golden Member
Jan 13, 2005
1,864
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I was wondering how long it would take to learn, and what you thought would be essential to understanding, the spoken Chinese language?

I'm 24, pretty well educated and I like to believe fairly intelligent. I just got back from backpacking China for 2 months, and had nothing but raw exposure to the language for the last 60 days.

I studied Chinese for a very short period there and have the basic foundation as to how the language, both written and spoken, works.

So I was wondering if anyone, who speaks both here, might be able to steer me in the right direction as to how I should go about learning the language, i.e. start with a personal tutor and Rosetta stone, then work books, or vice versa etc. and if anyone has any tips that comes to mind for someone who is a native English speaker looking to learn Chinese.
 

patrick409

Senior member
Aug 13, 2003
233
1
0
Cantonese or Mandarin?

It depends on how dedicated you are. IMO Chinese is a language you MUST have a live person teach you. It's not something you can learn from books and tapes. I'm not sure where you're from, but here in NYC Chinatown they offer beginner classes to anyone and it's not too pricey. If you're from a major city with a Chinatown, you might be able to find something similar.
 

Nerva

Platinum Member
Jul 26, 2005
2,784
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0
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
It'll take you a gorran long time to learn.

see i am fluent in mandarin, but i have no idea what gorran means.
 

Cal166

Diamond Member
May 6, 2000
5,081
8
81
Originally posted by: patrick409
Cantonese or Mandarin?

It depends on how dedicated you are. IMO Chinese is a language you MUST have a live person teach you. It's not something you can learn from books and tapes. I'm not sure where you're from, but here in NYC Chinatown they offer beginner classes to anyone and it's not too pricey. If you're from a major city with a Chinatown, you might be able to find something similar.

In NYC Chinatown, its Mandarin...Back in the early 90's everyone was speaking Cantonese, but now these days everywhere you go in Ctown, they speak presume you speak Mandarin.
 

uberman

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2006
1,942
1
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Learning another language is a big job. Rosetta Stone is good, yes it comes with books, I have russian-english. Dover books, Say It series is great, read phonetically and you're speaking many foreign languages. Oxford Picture Dictionary, If the bilingual version is available, it's a better choice. BTW, Dover books has a lot of books at good prices. I usually order direct because their prices are so cheap booksellers don't want to mess with them.

[ http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/n...talog=doverpublications&query=say%20it]
I hope this is the right one. Maybe it should be Chinese/ English.
[http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/genera...ictionaries/?view=usa&ci=9780194351898]

I believe that if I had the time and locked myself in a room for three weeks with Rosetta Stone, a collection of books, and an internet connection for chat and questions I'd be speaking Russian. I've just been busy and pushed it aside. A good way to learn a second language is in the country where it is spoken because you learn all day and are forced to use it. Best way to learn wherever you are is to go one on one with a college educated native speaker.


 

Literati

Golden Member
Jan 13, 2005
1,864
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Originally posted by: patrick409
Cantonese or Mandarin?

It depends on how dedicated you are. IMO Chinese is a language you MUST have a live person teach you. It's not something you can learn from books and tapes. I'm not sure where you're from, but here in NYC Chinatown they offer beginner classes to anyone and it's not too pricey. If you're from a major city with a Chinatown, you might be able to find something similar.

I'm interested in learning Mandarin as opposed to Cantonese, and I agree that a live person is a must. What I'm looking for is more of a supplemental reinforcement and maybe an example or two of schedules or things of that nature from anyone who has learned Mandarin, or anyone that speaks both languages and has some input as to how I should go about this. I unfortunately don't think there is a China Town in the area within a 2 hour drive but I have some ideas as to where I might go to find out.

Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
the pimsleur series exists in mp3

I actually have that series and used it before my trip, so I've been falling back on that a bit.

I appreciate the help uberman and will definitely look into it.

I understand the intricacies of the language as I've just gotten back from spending 2 months traveling China and I believe I'm pretty much past the extreme differences in language and was hoping I could put some of my working knowledge to use while I'm here back home.

I'm not necessarily looking to be super fluent in the language as opposed to just understanding it enough to be able to use it effectively.





 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
go to china and study there for a year.

This is what I plan to do next year
 

Baked

Lifer
Dec 28, 2004
36,052
17
81
Originally posted by: Cal166
Originally posted by: patrick409
Cantonese or Mandarin?

It depends on how dedicated you are. IMO Chinese is a language you MUST have a live person teach you. It's not something you can learn from books and tapes. I'm not sure where you're from, but here in NYC Chinatown they offer beginner classes to anyone and it's not too pricey. If you're from a major city with a Chinatown, you might be able to find something similar.

In NYC Chinatown, its Mandarin...Back in the early 90's everyone was speaking Cantonese, but now these days everywhere you go in Ctown, they speak presume you speak Mandarin.

****** please, Cantonese represent in SF Chinatown, the biggest Chinatown outside of China. If you hear people talk Mandarin, your Chinatown is overrun by taiwanese.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: 3cho
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
It'll take you a gorran long time to learn.

see i am fluent in mandarin, but i have no idea what gorran means.

Its gorram, and its not chinese. its a made up cuss word from firefly(the tv show) that replaces god damn. I guess jeffrey just assumed it was chinese because english and chinese were the two languages in that show.
 

Xyo II

Platinum Member
Oct 12, 2005
2,177
1
0
You know, I've heard that if someone is dropped off in a country where all they speak is a foreign language, the person will almost become fluent within a month. Of course, I think I heard that on The Simpsons, so it's a good chance that it's not true.
 

Literati

Golden Member
Jan 13, 2005
1,864
0
0
Originally posted by: Xyo II
You know, I've heard that if someone is dropped off in a country where all they speak is a foreign language, the person will almost become fluent within a month. Of course, I think I heard that on The Simpsons, so it's a good chance that it's not true.

I spent the last 2 months in China, where all they speak is Chinese, and I'm far from fluent.
 

ChaoZ

Diamond Member
Apr 5, 2000
8,906
1
0
Hah! 2 months? I've been speaking it my whole life and I'm still not fluent.
 

DaWhim

Lifer
Feb 3, 2003
12,985
1
81
forget it. the answer is never for a 24 years old. unless you are really good at learning languages.
 

LongCoolMother

Diamond Member
Sep 4, 2001
5,675
0
0
i dont have a lot of advice for you (i went to chinese school for 10+ years, and I still suck at Chinese) but I just want to commend you for wanting to learn a new language-- especially chinese. Gramatically, Chinese is very simple. Written, it is horrendously difficult.

Im chinese, grew up in a chinese household. My mom is a chinese school teacher. Unfortunately for me, I spoke english growing up and so while I have no difficulty understanding mandarin at all, I am far from fluent. I can manage a simple conversation, but its difficult for me to get the words out. My pronounciation is surprisingly accurate though.

Best thing is probably to find someone to practice with-- someone who can correct you and you can carry on conversations with. Easiest option is to just speak to one of your chinese friends.
 

ed21x

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2001
5,411
8
81
for speaking, watch children's shows with english subtitles. I learned english through Sesame Street, and it works well. After that, move on to watching movies with subtitles, reading comics in chinese, etc...

The most useful thing of all is to take the introductory course at a JC/college. The foundation layed out by an intro course is an excellent starting ground for you to build upon.
 

intogamer

Lifer
Dec 5, 2004
19,219
1
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Originally posted by: Cal166
Originally posted by: patrick409
Cantonese or Mandarin?

It depends on how dedicated you are. IMO Chinese is a language you MUST have a live person teach you. It's not something you can learn from books and tapes. I'm not sure where you're from, but here in NYC Chinatown they offer beginner classes to anyone and it's not too pricey. If you're from a major city with a Chinatown, you might be able to find something similar.

In NYC Chinatown, its Mandarin...Back in the early 90's everyone was speaking Cantonese, but now these days everywhere you go in Ctown, they speak presume you speak Mandarin.

Are you serious? I never hear any mandarin when I went to NYC in the summer.

Which one do you think you will want to benefit from?
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
1
0
If you learn to speak, learn to read/write as well.

The modern PRC version of Mandarin (simplified characters) is fairly easy to learn if you're learning to speak anyway.


I took 5 years of chinese and couldn't get my head around the damn tones. The reading and writing was easy, though.
 

wizard5233

Senior member
Jul 30, 2000
365
0
0
Originally posted by: Fayd
pfff... i dont want to learn chinese, i want to learn hanyu pinyin... it's chinese, written, with a western character set.

Pinyin is used to help you pronounce words out. It is written using the Roman Alphabet, but you still need to learn the characters to properly communicate with others.
 

SOSTrooper

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2001
2,552
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You should really take an introductory Chinese course at a JC as some ppl have suggested. You need to learn the basic foundation of Chinese grammar and structures in order to construct sentences properly (or semi-properly) for conversation. I speak both Cantonese and Mandarin and even those 2 are very different in many aspects (pronounciation, spoken structures, written structures, different slangs). You need to cement down the basic properties of the Chinese language first, then you will have an easier time with self-learning as well as getting familiar with simple conversations with other Mandarin speaking people.

I personally find the Rosetta Stone to be ineffective for normal conversations, as it doesn't clearly explain the purpose of each chapter. Plus, the pictorial technique that it uses to teach Chinese isn't the best way to approach such language. While it may work for English and other romance languages, Asian languages are different.

It's going to be really tough for your age to learn Chinese. You'll have to be dedicated about Chinese and consistently learning. You can't just listen to audio files and run language app for 15 mins a day. Chinese requires you to put in tremendous amount of time to learn, and even then the outcome may not be so satisfying. Give yourself a good half year to learn the basics of Chinese; take a class, find Chinese friends, rather than watching Saw III, go rent Da hong deng long gao gao gua instead.
 

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
2
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www.manwhoring.com
Originally posted by: wizard5233
Originally posted by: Fayd
pfff... i dont want to learn chinese, i want to learn hanyu pinyin... it's chinese, written, with a western character set.

Pinyin is used to help you pronounce words out. It is written using the Roman Alphabet, but you still need to learn the characters to properly communicate with others.

nope. it's good for talking to chinese farmers in video games
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
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Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
If you learn to speak, learn to read/write as well.

The modern PRC version of Mandarin (simplified characters) is fairly easy to learn if you're learning to speak anyway.


I took 5 years of chinese and couldn't get my head around the damn tones. The reading and writing was easy, though.

This is just because you're one of the few people who don't think it's that bad.

Chinese characters:

1. They have no building block ie. you don't have an alphabet in which to build words. Each word is its own unique character. Every. Single. Word.

2. They make no logical sense 95% of the time as far as *why* the character is that way. You simply have to memorize that the character looks exactly this way just because.

3. You cannot "sound out" Chinese characters. In English, if you don't know what, say, "mountain" is while reading, you can sound it out and hopefully get its meaning when you hear the word in your head. In Chinese, if you don't know a character, you just end up staring at it blankly. It almost never gives you any clues as to what it sounds like. You *have* to then divert to a dictionary or a Chinese speaker.

4. When you type Chinese, you must use an alphabet anyway, and you must know what the word sounds like. This doesn't seem like it would be that much of a problem, but it is. Say you're doing English homework, and you don't know what a word means. All you have to do is type the English word into any online dictionary, or do a google search for "define: [word]" Now say that you're doing Chinese homework, and you don't know what a character is. Since you must know what the word sounds like to type it out into an online dictionary, and the character gives no clue as to what it sounds like, you're screwed. You again have to divert to a book dictionary or a Chinese speaker.

5. You have to essentially brute force memorize every single character. Not only do you have to brute force memorize what it looks like so that you can recognize it while reading, but also how it sounds (since you can't sound it out), and how to actually write it (because recognizing the character during reading doesn't mean you can remember how to write it yourself).

6. If you know what a Chinese word sounds like, you won't know how to write it without a dictionary.

7. Dictation tests go like this: The teacher says a word in chinese, and you have to write out it's pinyin (pronunciation in an alphabet), it's meaning in English, and its character. You can nail the pinyin and the English meaning, but have absolutely no clue on the character. With English if you know a word's pronunciation you can make a very good guess on how to spell it. In Chinese if you know a word's pronunciation you can make *no* guess as to how to write it.

8. In my mind the purpose of written language is to essentially put spoken language on paper. You tie auditory language with visual language, and logic would suggest there'd best be a link between the two. In English, how a word looks more or less directly relates to how a word sounds. How a word sounds more or less directly relates to how a word looks or is spelled. In Chinese there is essentially no linkage between how a word sounds and how a word is written.

If you're good at brute memorization, Chinese should be simple. If you're not, Chinese will be very very hard and frustrating and annoying.
 
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