Chinese is super hard if you grew up with English. Heck, my parents are Chinese and I suck at it.
Originally posted by: Literati
The reason I want to give a crack at it is because it's obviously one of the most important languages in the world, and that's not going to change soon.
And because when I was in China, I didn't go out of my way to learn it but I picked it up very well. I assumed I wouldn't get it, it's the hardest language in the world I've heard, yadda yadda yadda... But while I was there people had a really hard time believing I don't know the language. A lot of times they'd ask me a question, and I'd repeat it back, then they'd stare at me...
And wait... and wait... then they'd ask someone who spoke both languages why I'm not answering the question or acting upon what they said. And after the person explained to them I had no idea what they were saying they'd call bullsh!t and would have a hard time believing that since my pronunciation was so naturally good, that they thought for the course of the conversation I knew exactly what was being said, and thought I was just being rude by not acknowledging what was said. This happened repeatedly to the point I thought the first few times were flukes, but after awhile I kind of came to terms with the idea I might just be doing something right.
So as I got home and thought about it, it seems that I kind of can naturally pick it up pretty easily, and I'm told my pronunciation is perfect, so I got to thinking, I might want to pursue learning the language, and hear I am, interest peaked and ready to take a shot at it.
I'm also really genuinely interested in it so it's always easier to pick things up that you are really interested in as opposed to just learning it for the sake of knowing it.
Originally posted by: randay
spoken and written are two different animals. being able to form sentences and being able to copy what a person says is very different also. but i guess it doesnt hurt. good luck learning chinese. i agree that the best way is to take a class.
No - there are many many moreOriginally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
This is just because you're one of the few people who don't think it's that bad.
Not really. Yeah the beginning is just learning characters raw (And I'm still doing that even after like 1200 characters ) but what I've noticed is those who have spoken the language for 10 years (non natives) and native speakers can figure out what a word is. Much like in English where I can deduce what a word means simply through context...but in Chinese you have a slightly better chance at getting the word right without context because the character gives a clue as to what it is.1. They have no building block ie. you don't have an alphabet in which to build words. Each word is its own unique character. Every. Single. Word.
Apparently you didn't learn Chinese to understand it - you just took it at face value.2. They make no logical sense 95% of the time as far as *why* the character is that way. You simply have to memorize that the character looks exactly this way just because.
most words are compound words -- there is a part that is meaning, and the other part gives an idea to sound.3. You cannot "sound out" Chinese characters. In English, if you don't know what, say, "mountain" is while reading, you can sound it out and hopefully get its meaning when you hear the word in your head. In Chinese, if you don't know a character, you just end up staring at it blankly. It almost never gives you any clues as to what it sounds like. You *have* to then divert to a dictionary or a Chinese speaker.
So what use the dictionary. Its just different, not worse - if you learned to use a chinese dictionary a lot you will be fast. And when I come on words I don't know (a LOT of the time) I can atleast guess the general sound of it when I put it into a computer and see the list of all sounds with different tones and usually find it.4. When you type Chinese, you must use an alphabet anyway, and you must know what the word sounds like. This doesn't seem like it would be that much of a problem, but it is. Say you're doing English homework, and you don't know what a word means. All you have to do is type the English word into any online dictionary, or do a google search for "define: [word]" Now say that you're doing Chinese homework, and you don't know what a character is. Since you must know what the word sounds like to type it out into an online dictionary, and the character gives no clue as to what it sounds like, you're screwed. You again have to divert to a book dictionary or a Chinese speaker.
Not true again5. You have to essentially brute force memorize every single character. Not only do you have to brute force memorize what it looks like so that you can recognize it while reading, but also how it sounds (since you can't sound it out), and how to actually write it (because recognizing the character during reading doesn't mean you can remember how to write it yourself).
What? I can see a word I've never heard, and I can write it. Follow stroke order.6. If you know what a Chinese word sounds like, you won't know how to write it without a dictionary.
Apparently you don't study very much. I never had problem with ?? and I was taught in traditional (though i'm switching to simplified...I'm more interested in mainland china than Taiwan)7. Dictation tests go like this: The teacher says a word in chinese, and you have to write out it's pinyin (pronunciation in an alphabet), it's meaning in English, and its character. You can nail the pinyin and the English meaning, but have absolutely no clue on the character. With English if you know a word's pronunciation you can make a very good guess on how to spell it. In Chinese if you know a word's pronunciation you can make *no* guess as to how to write it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH8. In my mind the purpose of written language is to essentially put spoken language on paper. You tie auditory language with visual language, and logic would suggest there'd best be a link between the two. In English, how a word looks more or less directly relates to how a word sounds. How a word sounds more or less directly relates to how a word looks or is spelled. In Chinese there is essentially no linkage between how a word sounds and how a word is written.
If you're good at brute memorization, Chinese should be simple. If you're not, Chinese will be very very hard and frustrating and annoying.
Originally posted by: magomago
raggae5k - you should stick the tones in there I was confused on the last two words for like 5 seconds thinking "swimming" instead of "has no use"
Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
If you learn to speak, learn to read/write as well.
The modern PRC version of Mandarin (simplified characters) is fairly easy to learn if you're learning to speak anyway.
I took 5 years of chinese and couldn't get my head around the damn tones. The reading and writing was easy, though.
This is just because you're one of the few people who don't think it's that bad.
Chinese characters:
1. They have no building block ie. you don't have an alphabet in which to build words. Each word is its own unique character. Every. Single. Word.
2. They make no logical sense 95% of the time as far as *why* the character is that way. You simply have to memorize that the character looks exactly this way just because.
3. You cannot "sound out" Chinese characters. In English, if you don't know what, say, "mountain" is while reading, you can sound it out and hopefully get its meaning when you hear the word in your head. In Chinese, if you don't know a character, you just end up staring at it blankly. It almost never gives you any clues as to what it sounds like. You *have* to then divert to a dictionary or a Chinese speaker.
4. When you type Chinese, you must use an alphabet anyway, and you must know what the word sounds like. This doesn't seem like it would be that much of a problem, but it is. Say you're doing English homework, and you don't know what a word means. All you have to do is type the English word into any online dictionary, or do a google search for "define: [word]" Now say that you're doing Chinese homework, and you don't know what a character is. Since you must know what the word sounds like to type it out into an online dictionary, and the character gives no clue as to what it sounds like, you're screwed. You again have to divert to a book dictionary or a Chinese speaker.
5. You have to essentially brute force memorize every single character. Not only do you have to brute force memorize what it looks like so that you can recognize it while reading, but also how it sounds (since you can't sound it out), and how to actually write it (because recognizing the character during reading doesn't mean you can remember how to write it yourself).
6. If you know what a Chinese word sounds like, you won't know how to write it without a dictionary.
7. Dictation tests go like this: The teacher says a word in chinese, and you have to write out it's pinyin (pronunciation in an alphabet), it's meaning in English, and its character. You can nail the pinyin and the English meaning, but have absolutely no clue on the character. With English if you know a word's pronunciation you can make a very good guess on how to spell it. In Chinese if you know a word's pronunciation you can make *no* guess as to how to write it.
8. In my mind the purpose of written language is to essentially put spoken language on paper. You tie auditory language with visual language, and logic would suggest there'd best be a link between the two. In English, how a word looks more or less directly relates to how a word sounds. How a word sounds more or less directly relates to how a word looks or is spelled. In Chinese there is essentially no linkage between how a word sounds and how a word is written.
If you're good at brute memorization, Chinese should be simple. If you're not, Chinese will be very very hard and frustrating and annoying.
Originally posted by: MaxFusion16
I take it you failed the class, because most of your belief is misinformed
Originally posted by: Reggae4k
Ni shi yige da ben dan. Ni xue zhongwen mei you yong.