Legal advice needed. Verbal agreement isn't being honored.

[dxkj]

I can't provide super details, but I will summarize it.


Party A (frank) told Party B (Bill) that there was a store on an island that Bill could try running for Frank. If it worked out well, then after a year or two Frank would sell the store to Bill, or at least get him to sign a lease. They were friends, so nothing was signed. For the first year or two (until a lease was signed), Bill said that he would take all the financial responsibility for the store. Stocking it, Rent, taxes, etc. He also promised to pay Bill a yearly salary.

Recently Frank started pressuring Bill to sign a lease. The store has not been doing well (because there is more competition on the island, and that store has been around longer). Bill has done everything he can to make the store a success, and puts in 10-14 hrs a day easily. Bill explained to Frank that the store is not doing well, and to sign a lease would be a bad idea.

Frank flips out. Starts saying things like Bill had used him to move from where he was living before (Bill paid moving costs, so that makes no sense). Frank also claims that Bill promised to sign a lease after a year or two (which is BS, because the whole point of this venture was "no risk" to Bill, as promised by Frank.

So now Frank sends Bill a letter and tells him that he will be charging him for rent (Bill is currently living in a house near the store that Frank owns, for free, as agreed at the beginning of all this), and that he will be witholding his weekly pay until he is certain that Bill won't leave him until he finds someone else to run the store.


Bill will be contacting a lawyer as soon as possible, but does anyone know if Frank has a leg to stand on?


There was NO contract signed, NOTHINg signed. Just verbal agreements.

The lake is frozen so Bill can't move his stuff off the island, and if Frank gets pissed and kicks him out of the house, he has very little options.

Frank is a powerful man, very very rich, and influential. Bill is worried that Frank will try to ruin them financially just for spite.



Any ideas on this?

 

[conjur]

Law School homework now?

 

[dxkj]

Heh, I wish. "bill" is my step-father.

 

[MacBaine]

Well I will be frank with you, wait... you can be frank, I will be bill.

 

[TwinkleToes77]

from what i learned from judge judy.. its illegal to hold someones salary.. secondly if he wasnt paying rent before it would be hard to prove that he has to pay it now.

 

[Armitage]

How's that go?? A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's printed on?

 

[RKS]

THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE:

Usually contracts involving LAND require written contracts. While A might not be able to force B to sign the lease he may be able to claim other losses. This would be fact-intense situation in court and each party would probably come out as before this incident began except for being friends.


THIS PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH DID NOT CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE. PLEASE CONSULT YOUR ATTORNEY FOR PROPER RESPRESENTATION.

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: RKS
THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE:

Usually contracts involving LAND require written contracts. While A might not be able to force B to sign the lease he may be able to claim other losses. This would be fact-intense situation in court and each party would probably come out as before this incident began except for being friends.


THIS PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH DID NOT CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE. PLEASE CONSULT YOUR ATTORNEY FOR PROPER RESPRESENTATION.

In this situation, Bill is simply an employee of Frank who works in the store, runs it, and gets free rent across the street. Frank really doesnt have a leg to stand on does he?

 

[RKS]

At-will employees (employees without contracts) can usually be fired for nominal reasons. I don't think Frank can force Bill to work there and still with-hold his pay.

 

[kt]

Kill Bill.

 

[Ynog]

From what I have been told, i really have no knowledge of business law, verbal contracts for the most part aren't upheld in court.
I was told this by two separate friends one who is studying business law and the other with a business degree. Neither are lawyers
though so like its been said before contact a lawyer or someone with better knowlegde.

However, since you have no written contract, I would assume Bill is an employee and thus must be paid. If you stop paying
Bill, Bill stops working. You cannot stop paying someone because your afraid they are going to quit. You have to continue to
pay them. As far as rent goes, unless you have a lease or contract stating the rent is free, Frank has the right to change the rent
or kick Bill out. However I pretty sure there are laws stating that notice must be given to protect rentees with no leases. Not sure
the time frames, but I believe its around 90 days. So Frank has the right to say Bill your rents going up, or I am kicking out out,
he just needs to give Bill notice before the changes become effective. I also think that there are are few exceptions, like change in
ownership but thats not the case here.

Obviously tell Bill to contact someone that can give him better legal advice.

 

[dxkj]

Yeah, Bill is doing that asap.


Problem is, flying off the island to meet with someone leaves the store closed... Bill is worried that by closing the store, he will upset Frank, and frank will try to kick him out of the house.


Lake is frozen over so he cant leave until the lake is thawed anyway.

 

[CPA]

If I remember from my Bus Law classes, verbal contracts that cannot be performed within a year are not valid.

But, there is no way in he!! Frank can withhold his paychecks. Call the Labor Board, if that's the case.

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by: kt
Kill Bill.

thats hilarious

oh and seriously what those guys said i have no clue but best of luck!

 

[fonzinator]

Originally posted by: dxkj
I can't provide super details, but I will summarize it.


Party A (frank) told Party B (Bill) that there was a store on an island that Bill could try running for Frank. If it worked out well, then after a year or two Frank would sell the store to Bill, or at least get him to sign a lease. They were friends, so nothing was signed. For the first year or two (until a lease was signed), Bill said that he would take all the financial responsibility for the store. Stocking it, Rent, taxes, etc. He also promised to pay Bill a yearly salary.

Recently Frank started pressuring Bill to sign a lease. The store has not been doing well (because there is more competition on the island, and that store has been around longer). Bill has done everything he can to make the store a success, and puts in 10-14 hrs a day easily. Bill explained to Frank that the store is not doing well, and to sign a lease would be a bad idea.

Frank flips out. Starts saying things like Bill had used him to move from where he was living before (Bill paid moving costs, so that makes no sense). Frank also claims that Bill promised to sign a lease after a year or two (which is BS, because the whole point of this venture was "no risk" to Bill, as promised by Frank.

So now Frank sends Bill a letter and tells him that he will be charging him for rent (Bill is currently living in a house near the store that Frank owns, for free, as agreed at the beginning of all this), and that he will be witholding his weekly pay until he is certain that Bill won't leave him until he finds someone else to run the store.


Bill will be contacting a lawyer as soon as possible, but does anyone know if Frank has a leg to stand on?


There was NO contract signed, NOTHINg signed. Just verbal agreements.

The lake is frozen so Bill can't move his stuff off the island, and if Frank gets pissed and kicks him out of the house, he has very little options.

Frank is a powerful man, very very rich, and influential. Bill is worried that Frank will try to ruin them financially just for spite.



Any ideas on this?

Here's what you really have:
Bill paid his own way to come and work at Frank's store.
Bill is an employee of Frank and is paid a regular salary.
Frank pays Bill's rent.
Bill lives in a house that Frank owns.

End of story. All verbal agreements removed because they don't mean squat in this case.

Legally, Frank cannot withhold Bill's pay PERIOD. Legally, Frank could never force Bill to sign a lease on the store. Legally, Frank has the right to tell Bill to get the heck out of his house that very instant (providing a reasonable time for him to remove his possessions - lake frozen over or not). Bill is not renting from Frank and has no rental agreement, thus no rights as a renter. Technically, Bill is a guest in Frank's house by Frank's goodwill.

 

[cchagadorn]

Actually I think the laws in most states favor the tenant/resident in this case. Since he has been living in the house for a while he is a legal resident, wither he is paying rent or not.

At this point in most states Frank must follow the rules of the landlord-tenant act in that state, which means he must be given written notice and all sorts of other stuff. In fact, if Frank does not also live in that house he may not even be able to enter the house without your permission.

I know of a couple who separated (not divorced) and the woman moved for more than three months. The couple both owned the house but since the woman moved out she was no longer a resident at the house.

To make a long story short the woman came back to the house to get some clothes that she left over three months ago and got in an argument with her husband, who called the cops. When the cops came the told her to leave and that she was no longer allowed to enter the house that the partly owned because she was not a resident and the current resident (her husband) did not want to let her in.

Needless to say she came back later that night and the cops arrested her for breaking and entering.

My other experience comes from helping my parents run quite a few rentals. In most cases when the landlord didn't cross every T and dot every I, AND the tenant is smart enough to know their rights, the tenant wins.

The laws were made to prevent someone from being kicked out of their residence and onto the street without any notice.

 

[astroview]

Frankly any advice you get on this board isn't going to be that good since we don't know your local jurisdiction's law. Law varies from state to state, and can have important differences. Get an attorney! Bill can call one by phone, if he can't travel to the atty.

What I'm saying here is not legal advice, it's just some background: Generally contracts for longer than a year or involving property must be in writing. That is called the statute of frauds, but courts have been known to suspend the SoF if the statute of frauds in fact perpetuates a fraud. Bill may be able to rely on a theory of promissory estoppel if the contract method doesn't work, which is hey you promised me something, i reasonably relied, now payup.

There are also employment law and agency law issues here which are complicated. Both parties have duties here under employment and agency law that they may or may not be violating.

The lesson is simple, always get a written contract, it doesn't have to be even drawn up by attorneys. Verbal contracts suck. People can't remember things, remember them differently, or just plain lie in the future. I don't care if the contract is between friends, more so the reason to get a contract in order to preserve the friendship.

Bill should probably run from this situation regardless, Frank has shown that he isn't willing to act in good faith. I wouldn't want to work with a guy who is already pressuring me, or pulling stunts like this. Get away from this situation, and talk to an attorney. This probably won't go to trial or even close, nowadays nothing does.

 

[astroview]

Oh yea, you're also going to have a hell of time proving anything, its just he said she said. If they're both normal guys, no court will rule in the plaintiff's favor. Now if Frank is a felon he might win in court, but yea otherwise its hard to.

Basically Bill is in trouble.

 

[BooGiMaN]

if tv has taught me anything..is that in this situation bill must kill frank and make it look like an accident but make sure there are no meddling kids with a dog that will come snooping around....

or bill can always fake his own death and the family can sue rich frank but make sure bill leaves the island and isnt lurking around with a bad disguise

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: astroview
Oh yea, you're also going to have a hell of time proving anything, its just he said she said. If they're both normal guys, no court will rule in the plaintiff's favor. Now if Frank is a felon he might win in court, but yea otherwise its hard to.

Basically Bill is in trouble.

Problem is, Bill can't leave. There is no physical way to remove his possessions from the island. Furniture, TV, etc. So If Bill gets "kicked out" he will have no where to put any of his stuff...


He is considering just paying rent until he can leave I think. I told him to talk to a Lawyer and he will be ASAP