Lend an ear. My XP1600+ unlocking nightmare. UPDATE !

Paolo

Senior member
May 3, 2000
424
0
76
Boy, I just lost about a day of my vacation trying to unlock my xp1600+ w/o success. Maybe I was just too cocky, but I've never had such a frustrating computer hardware problem that was supposed to take an hour to complete. I read thru Tom's Hardware guide, saw his how-to movie, and search a bunch of forums to see the alternative methods and pitfalls. Yesterday morning I started w/ superglue, defroster repair paint (initially), tape, multimeter,and a good magnifying loop. As the day withered away, I tried whiteout, a conductive pen, and various desperate on the fly methods to seperate the individual L1 traces and prevent grounding. I was in one of those endless " Lemme try just one angle on this" loops. I dunno but on this particular cpu the L1 laser pits were very close to the bottom row of contacts and difficult to isolate:

L1 schematic:

o o o o o - top row of contacts

_ _ _ _ _ - "the pits"
o o o o o - bottom contacts

Either as a result of contact between several of the bottom contacts its "pit" or because I scraped of some of the top green cpu layer exposing the underlying copper, I keep finding electrical shorts between 2 or 3 of the bottom contacts and the little gold testing spot ( which I believe is continous w/ the underlying copper layer. When I tried the cpu after setting up the L1 traces, the multiplier was stuck at 8.5 instead of the default 10.5. I read that this is a sign of shorting out. Fortunately when I remove all the conductive paint and thus isolate the top contacts from the bottom ones, the cpu still runs at 10.5X ( whew! I lucked out there.) .

This is so frustrating. This is a good cpu running fine @ 152 fsb and 1600MHz. I believe w/ a higher multiplier I could get more out of it. Although I "gave up" on unlocking it yesterday at about midnight 'cuz I couldn't think of another approach, I was thinking..... maybe if I coated all the L1 exposed contacts, including "the pits" and the ones I created by scraping, w/ a coat of superglue, or epoxy (or applied very good adhering tape!), then poke thru the coating w/ a pin or similar right over the L1 contacts, and finally trace between the contacts w/ something I haven't used before, like thin wire or some other conductive liguid ( the silver conductive pen and the repair paint are too granular and brittle and crumble apart easily, especially if the surface isn't perfectly flat). Anybody know about a conductive liguid that might flow better around irregularites and down a pin hole and be more flexible?

I certainly hope everybody else has better luck than me at this !
 

LostHiWay

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
1,544
0
76
I feel your pain. I went through the exact same thing with my 1600+. I'd been running it at 150fsb and very much like you I wanted more. I finally did get the thing unlocked and pushed the multiplier up to 11 and the thing wouldn't post. So I had to take it back down to 10.5x150 and all the unlocking was a big waste.

If your stable at 10.5x152 don't try unlocking it. You have just about a 0% chance of it being stable at 11x152.
 

MoFunk

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2000
4,058
0
0
Seems to me that more people are having greater success just leaving the damn thing locked and pumping up the FSB. I think that I will just have to leave mine locked!
 

Paolo

Senior member
May 3, 2000
424
0
76
Thanks for the replies. LostHiWay how did you finally unlock that cpu of yours. I agree and really don't expect success at 11x 152, but I am migrating from my epox 8K7A to a 8KHA+ which I bought when I got the XP1600+. Given I am going to fill all 3 DIMM slots and cpu overvoltage limits of the 8KHA+, I may not be able to run at 152FSB. I just want the option of monkeying around w/ the multiplier and perhaps finding a happy medium. Plus the 8KHA+ is jumperless (the 8K7A of course is jumperfull) and so much easier to play with. I know whine, whine moan, moan.

 

Athlon4all

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
5,416
0
76
Just a word of advice. I can understand the frustration of unlocking an XP. Truthfully, I hope I never have to decide. lol. Anyway, here's just something to keep in mind. fsb overclocking, will almost allways do more good than just multiplier. With fsb ocing on the Athlon because the fsb and mem clocks are in sync, when you oc usig the fsb, memory bandwidth increases and you get the fsb bandy needed to use that extra mem bandy as well. My point is that allways push the fsb to the max with if u need to, a voltage oc. Only unlock if u think you could go further. Just a word of advice. Good luck!
 

RayZor

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
980
0
0
I unlocked my 1800+, on the first try, with absolutely "0" hastles, took me around 30min tops!
I used Circuitworks non-conductive Heatsink grease as the gap filler, and CircuitWorks Silver Conductive Grease to close the L1 bridges. Worked like a charm. I followed these
Instructions and you can get everything you need Right Here
The beauty of this method is, if you get it wrong you can just clean it off and doit over.
Right now I got that bad-boy at 160X10 = 1600 Solid

This is from the (Instructions) link;


<< All of the numbers and letters as well as the AMD symbol, large dots and delta symbols are connected to ground. It is imperative not to get any conductive grease on these areas or the unlocking attempt will not work. >>



G'luck

Ray
 

Paolo

Senior member
May 3, 2000
424
0
76
Rayzor, the thermal/conductive method sounds good and easy to redue, but it doesn't appear to be too stable. I mean since it doesn't dry, all you have to do is accidentally touch it and the connnections will be ruined. Is there some way to top coat it once it is set up correctly to preserve it ?
 

RayZor

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
980
0
0
There very well may be but off the top of my head I can't think of any,
I did it around 2 weeks ago, and have no problems what-so-ever. Of course you use a tiny amount of the conductive grease, and you have to be careful when you put the heatsink on, but once you have it on, it covers it and there's very little chance of a wire or cable brushing up against it or anything, and as long as the HS/F is mounted it's, shall we say "Covered"

Since I've applied this technique, I've opened the box up, to change a sound card, a cable, and clean up a little dust using a brush and a can of compressed air, (of course being careful between the HS and chip), and it's giving me no problems. Another reason why I went with this method is I have a retail chip, down the line, if for any reason I have to RMA it, I can just clean it off and send it without worrying that I have voided my warranty.

I've got it at 150X11.5 right now, very stable. Give it a shot, if you don't like it you can use Acetone and clean it off, no harm done

Ray
 

RayZor

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
980
0
0
Paolo, Look Here the same people that make the Conductive grease, make "CircuitWorks Overcoat Pen, The pen dispenser which applies a tough protective conformal coating" AND CircuitWorks Conformal Coating Remover Pen
Everything you need is there.
 

Paolo

Senior member
May 3, 2000
424
0
76
Cool ! Those last few links have been very instructive. I think I may attack those L1 bridges in the near future. But I think w/ all shorting trouble I'm having and all the scratches thru the green top coat, I might still go for coating or applying a clear layer over the whole L1 grid, then connect w/ each contact w/ a pin hole. If I cover all the metallic surfaces, then I could bow out the trace lines allowing more clearance between pairs. Thermal grease might be the answer as long as I could top coat it. Or something else conductive that allows tracing a nice tight line. As I said, the conductive pen and the conductive repair kit put out too thick and chunky of a trace for me.
 

Freejack2

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
7,751
8
81
I did my xp1700+ with superglue and rear window defogger repair kit paint. I'm really really really glad I practiced on my duron first. What looked so easy on Toms Hardware was anything but easy. Turns out a lot of my problem was I wasn't taping between the bridges first.
I was taping above and below the bridges first. This was fine for putting the superglue on but it's a nightmare when putting the conductive paint on. It bled enough that bridges were touching each other. Once I put the tape between the bridges first it was a LOT easier. Also what probably was a good last minute decision I decided to use cheap runny superglue instead of a thick gel. It occured to me I wanted to make sure the glue got down into the pits.
I currently have my cpu running rock solid at 1900+ (1600mhz)
Going to try 2000+ this weekend.
 

RayZor

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
980
0
0
Another option for you Paolo is the CircuitWorks Conductive Epoxy. You can use the CircuitWorks Heat Sink Grease as the gap filler and the epoxy to close the connections.
I used the point of a very thin sewing needle and a magnifying glass to apply the Conductive grease.
 

johndoe52

Senior member
Aug 12, 2001
773
0
0
how high can these things oc to anyhow? My point is why bother with the multiplier when you pretty much reach it's limits with fsb adjustment. Maybe there's a bit more that can be pumped out of it but would you be able to tell the difference?
 

Wind

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2001
3,034
0
0
Most ppl here is happy w/ just FSB O/Cing & I'm in the same idea w/ them. Save the hassle & risk.
 

dajeepster

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2001
1,974
16
81
yes... finally got a decent thread for info to unlock... better instructions... I'm not happy with just pumping up the fsb with mine, so therefore i'm going to unlock the chip.... I've a 100X scope (and an electronic xray machine) available to me at work where I can try and attempt this. What i'm looking for now is some good conductive material with data sheets. If I can get a link to a company that developes this stuff, I can get my job to order a sample to test is out.
 

dajeepster

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2001
1,974
16
81
oops... that wasn't suppose to be a frown...

yes... finally got a decent thread for info to unlock... better instructions... I'm not happy with just pumping up the fsb with mine, so therefore i'm going to unlock the chip.... I've a 100X scope (and an electronic xray machine) available to me at work where I can try and attempt this. What i'm looking for now is some good conductive material with data sheets. If I can get a link to a company that developes this stuff, I can get my job to order a sample to test is out.
 

Paolo

Senior member
May 3, 2000
424
0
76
Dajeepster, wow , you definitely have the setup to work on the near molecular level ! Check out THIS site for even more L1 trace intensity and links.
 

FenrisUlf

Senior member
Nov 28, 2001
325
0
0
I unlocked my 1600+ about a month ago after watching the THG video. I used epoxy instead of superglue since I think it's easier to work with. I taped off the contacts and filled the pits with epoxy, using an x-acto knife to clean off the excess. After the epoxy had set and before it was fully hardened, I cut it flush with the top of the CPU. Then I used a window defogger repair kit to bridge the contacts. To apply it I stripped 1/2" inch off the insulation from the end of a multi-stranded wire and cut off all the strands except one. It took a while to get the liquid to the proper consistency. I had to wait until some of it in the cap had thickened to a gel-like consistency before it was usable, otherwise it would just flow everywhere. Using the thickened paint, it was fairly simple to connect the dots, but it took a steady hand, some patience, and alot of squinting. I hope this helps.
 

Paolo

Senior member
May 3, 2000
424
0
76
Thanks for the additional advice FenrisUlf. You know the other piece of this that would be helpful for me, particularly w/ my plan to tap thru a top coat w/ a needle to each L1 contact, would be a pin on the cpu that I could connect to w/ my multitester (the other lead connected to the needle) allowing me to know when I made electrical contact. I already know all too well when something is grounded on the cpu surface since all the metallic emblems and lettering and exposed metal under the green coat are all grounded. I don't know if the L1 contacts have external points where continuity can be tested. Would sure be nice if they did.
 

gdawson6

Senior member
Jan 9, 2002
565
0
0
I was so glad when i recieved my 1.4 tb and found out that they were shipped unlocked, saved me a lot of stress. I was able to get 1.644 out of it with complete stability.
 

Paolo

Senior member
May 3, 2000
424
0
76
Not that anyone really wants to know, but I want to share the final chapter of my try at unlocking my 1600+. Well I played out my last ditch plan and coated the whole L1 grid with a coat of superglue, then after it dried I drove a needle tip to each L1 contact. The idea was then use the pin to drive in some conductive silver paint then finish the trace to the opposite contact. I tested all these needle hole contacts before the painting with the needle connected to my multitester to assure I wasn't grounding anything. Alas I must have pushed too hard with the needle tip on one of the contacts (I'll call it bottom row #5) and extruded it in some way so that sucker was grounded! Oh s**t, so I grabbed everthing and drove to work where I used a microscope to assess the damage and try to break any shorts I might have created. After an hour+ of sweat and squinting , jabbing with a sharp needle tip I just couldn't "unshort" that contact. Depressed, I drove home and pleaded " Oh please, please let it boot ! I know I deserve a dead cpu for not settling for the locked multiplier, but pleeeeeze!". Well I reinstalled the cpu and..... no go wouldn't post, aww f**kit! Well moron you got what was coming to you. Well I guess I'll doubleup on the prozac tonite.

I decided to make one more half hearted attempt to salvage the cpu using my dremel w/ this extremely tiny grinding bit, kinda like what the dentist would go after you with. I figured my cpu is maimed, why not go for some real damage. So I ground down right over the shorting L1 contact making a kind of crater and exposing even more shiny metal. Didn't look too promising. I reinstalled it ..... the sucker booted right up (locked of course) like nothing had happened. What a rush !!!! Oh joy Oh happiness.

Well that's my cautionary tale. Quit while your ahead. Didn't deserve the happy ending, but thanks. Will I ever attempt to unlock an xp again? Well if the situation comes probably yes. I sure learned a lot from my mistakes and have now much better technique at laying out those traces and avoiding scratching thru that thin green top coat. I'm just gonna hug my xp 1600+ "survivor" for now.
 

sc0tty8

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2001
1,052
0
0
I bought mine unlocked I really have not had the chance top push on it yet though I got it runnin at 1.5ghz.
 
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