Let the Slaughter Begin . . .

[CaptnKirk]

Bubba, You done Hit A Misquito . . .

While it's inherently smart to introduce the super compact to the US for commuters to get the best fuel economy,
it places the most vulnerable vehicles in the path of the most agressive drivers in their 'Morgue-on-Wheels'.

This type vehicle is quite popular throughout Europe where petrol costs have long been over $ 4.00 / gallon ( $ 1.20+/Litre)
and would do well in inter-city traffic where commuters move through congested city streets at slow speeds,
But get one of these beauties out on the freeway where they have to compete for their 50 square feet of right of way
with a Ford Exploder doing 80 in a 55 MPH zone, and all bets are off.

Even now with 'Normal' sized cars, many of the upsized SUV type vehicles tear through the passenger compartments
of the smaller vehicles just above the middle of the doors, through the windows, and side airbags aren't too much help.

I'd get one myself if there weren't so many stupidly agressive BelchFire 5000 drivers around,
but don't think I'd use it for much more than a 'A to B' intown commuter car, no tour the USA in this toy.

Back in the late '50's & early '60's there was an effort to introduce vehicles of this size here, they are museum pieces:

BMW Isetta

Messerschmidt

I've seen both, rode in the Isetta - wheeled suitcase.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

I've seen both, rode in the Isetta - wheeled suitcase.

Come on, it's a BMW I hope the number of SUVs on a road goes down as they age, break down and will be desired by fewer people as used cars. I think any change towards more fuel-efficient cars is good. No good reason for a single person to commute to work in 7-seat luxo-SUV, burning up valuable resources.

 

[Thump553]

Was there a Saab similar to the Isetta? In the mid-60s my uncle had a car like looked like the Isetta (in rural Iowa, of all places) but I remember it as a Saab. It was two cycle, and even with two people in the car (who weighed maybe 250 lb total) the car slowed way down going up even gentle hills.

Probably dangerous as h*ll, but it was a cool perspective looking forward.

 

[GoPackGo]

SUV and large vehicle drivers are usually WAY too aggressive. They think that since they have a big vehicle they own the road.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
SUV and large vehicle drivers are usually WAY too aggressive. They think that since they have a big vehicle they own the road.

Amen to that. The fact that my 2002 Taurus Sport Edition has every available safety option that was offered in 2002 means nothing to me when I can be sitting at a stop light with a Dodge Ram 'Big Horn' next to me and I look over and notice that if he hits me, my head would be roughly in the middle of his freakin grill, the fact that i'm sitting down and my head barely clears his tires says to me things are getting out of hand size wise. That isnt a truck, it's a freakin Mack truck with a consumer body....

As long as people as aware of that, they'll take one look at a smart car and say no f'n way

 

[halik]

Too bad they're kinda pricy, for 11-14K I'd rather get a Ducati 748.
If they were about a half of that, I'd definitely consider them as I'm moving to NYC in 3 weeks.

 

[robphelan]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
SUV and large vehicle drivers are usually WAY too aggressive. They think that since they have a big vehicle they own the road.

Amen to that. The fact that my 2002 Taurus Sport Edition has every available safety option that was offered in 2002 means nothing to me when I can be sitting at a stop light with a Dodge Ram 'Big Horn' next to me and I look over and notice that if he hits me, my head would be roughly in the middle of his freakin grill, the fact that i'm sitting down and my head barely clears his tires says to me things are getting out of hand size wise. That isnt a truck, it's a freakin Mack truck with a consumer body....

As long as people as aware of that, they'll take one look at a smart car and say no f'n way

this isn't necessarily true.

i now drive a full sized extended cab pickup truck and drive much slower and more carefully than i did with my previous cars (BMW, mustang, maxima).

it's just too dangerous to drive like i used to because it doesn't handle nearly as well.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Was there a Saab similar to the Isetta? In the mid-60s my uncle had a car like looked like the Isetta (in rural Iowa, of all places) but I remember it as a Saab. It was two cycle, and even with two people in the car (who weighed maybe 250 lb total) the car slowed way down going up even gentle hills.

Probably dangerous as h*ll, but it was a cool perspective looking forward.

1966 Saab 96 was a 2 cylinder

The Sonnet was a Sports model

(Theres a 1951 Citroen 15 - Six in the background)
There were hundreds of these around Siagon in the mid 60's, always black & rather neat, well kept.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: robphelan

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
SUV and large vehicle drivers are usually WAY too aggressive. They think that since they have a big vehicle they own the road.

Amen to that. The fact that my 2002 Taurus Sport Edition has every available safety option that was offered in 2002 means nothing to me when I can be sitting at a stop light with a Dodge Ram 'Big Horn' next to me and I look over and notice that if he hits me, my head would be roughly in the middle of his freakin grill, the fact that i'm sitting down and my head barely clears his tires says to me things are getting out of hand size wise. That isnt a truck, it's a freakin Mack truck with a consumer body....

As long as people as aware of that, they'll take one look at a smart car and say no f'n way

this isn't necessarily true.

i now drive a full sized extended cab pickup truck and drive much slower and more carefully than i did with my previous cars (BMW, mustang, maxima).

it's just too dangerous to drive like i used to because it doesn't handle nearly as well.

Then you are one of the few. I drive on a regular basis into downtown Detroit for work, I'm always a safe driver I try to keep my cruise control on and go no more than 5MPH over the speed limit and i get passed all the time by people in SUV/trucks. While it's encouraging to me that you drive safe, many people dont, including my own parents who both have SUVs and have a subtle attitude that since they have a bigger car they can drive faster. There is obviously a disconnect in the auto industry, some people want smaller cars that are more fuel efficient, while some still demand the big trucks/SUVs without much middle ground and in the end the people who end up at my hospital with major trauma from a car crash are certainly NOT the SUV owners but rather the car owners whose cars were absolutely crushed by an SUV/truck.

And despite all that even if you drive safe thats not to say anyone else will. And in the end you driving safe and still going 60mph in an truck that has lost control is not fun because someone is gonna end up hurt and it probably wont be you.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

. . . in the end the people who end up at my hospital with major trauma from a car crash are certainly NOT the SUV owners but rather the car owners whose cars were absolutely crushed by an SUV/truck.

And despite all that even if you drive safe thats not to say anyone else will. And in the end you driving safe and still going 60mph in an truck that has lost control is not fun because someone is gonna end up hurt and it probably wont be you.

Down here in Tejas, where the SUV is the dominant vehicular choice for destruction, the fatality rate is right up there
at the top for 'high speed loss-of-control roll-over' with ejection of occupants.
Leading cause of road death by motor meat is operator agressive stupidity.

125 Lb Blonde Soccer-Mom running 85 in a vehicle that she can see over all the cars ahead of her,
insulated from sesatory feed-back from the road never realizes that an 8,000 Lb vehicle takes as much distance
to stop as your average diesel locomotive . . . until it's to late.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

. . . in the end the people who end up at my hospital with major trauma from a car crash are certainly NOT the SUV owners but rather the car owners whose cars were absolutely crushed by an SUV/truck.

And despite all that even if you drive safe thats not to say anyone else will. And in the end you driving safe and still going 60mph in an truck that has lost control is not fun because someone is gonna end up hurt and it probably wont be you.

Down here in Tejas, where the SUV is the dominant vehicular choice for destruction, the fatality rate is right up there
at the top for 'high speed loss-of-control roll-over' with ejection of occupants.
Leading cause of road death by motor meat is operator agressive stupidity.

125 Lb Blonde Soccer-Mom running 85 in a vehicle that she can see over all the cars ahead of her,
insulated from sesatory feed-back from the road never realizes that an 8,000 Lb vehicle takes as much distance
to stop as your average diesel locomotive . . . until it's to late.

Yea, we get those too in Detroit, and plenty of fatalities result, either way it's a crappy situation....and I swear to God how many people wouldnt end up in the hospital if they wore their motherfreaking seltbelt!!!! :| :| :| :|

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: halik
Too bad they're kinda pricy, for 11-14K I'd rather get a Ducati 748.
If they were about a half of that, I'd definitely consider them as I'm moving to NYC in 3 weeks.

Dude, a 748 gets terrible gas mileage and ain't exactly a commuter bike . . . granted I haven't ridden one since 2001.

Smart has a lot of potential as a city car or true commuter car. The problem isn't that Smarts are too small. The real issues are bad drivers . . . bad. And bad drivers in big vehicles . . . worse.

The benefits of Smart vehicles are multiple:
1) lower fuel consumption . . . which would reduce individual cost, overall gas prices, dependence on imports, and air pollution.
2) smaller cars means more room to park them
3) smaller, cheaper cars means less expensive to insure due to lower costs in "fender benders"

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Yea, we get those too in Detroit, and plenty of fatalities result, either way it's a crappy situation....and I swear to God how many people wouldnt end up in the hospital if they wore their motherfreaking seltbelt!!!! :| :| :| :|

Down in Florida all through the mid 80's through the late 90's there was consideration to disallow the street driving
of the 'Tall-Trucks' because most traffic encounters with them lead to decapitation of the passengers in a normal vehicle.

Never was passed though, Rednecks have the God Given Right to kill everything with their trucks.

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

3) smaller, cheaper cars means less expensive to insure due to lower costs in "fender benders"

Disposable, like beercans littering the highways of 'Merica.


That little re-birth of the Mini-Cooper by BMW is horrifically pricey - a status symbol death trap.

However - an occupant of the BMW Mini Cooper has a much higher chance of survival to a head-on off-set crash
at 40 MPH or better than the occupant of a Ford F-150 Pickup, due to chassis capsule containment design.

Mini Cooper Vs. Ford F-150, the Cage Match

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: robphelan

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
SUV and large vehicle drivers are usually WAY too aggressive. They think that since they have a big vehicle they own the road.

Amen to that. The fact that my 2002 Taurus Sport Edition has every available safety option that was offered in 2002 means nothing to me when I can be sitting at a stop light with a Dodge Ram 'Big Horn' next to me and I look over and notice that if he hits me, my head would be roughly in the middle of his freakin grill, the fact that i'm sitting down and my head barely clears his tires says to me things are getting out of hand size wise. That isnt a truck, it's a freakin Mack truck with a consumer body....

As long as people as aware of that, they'll take one look at a smart car and say no f'n way

this isn't necessarily true.

i now drive a full sized extended cab pickup truck and drive much slower and more carefully than i did with my previous cars (BMW, mustang, maxima).

it's just too dangerous to drive like i used to because it doesn't handle nearly as well.

Sad to say, you are the minority. I drive to work everyday and I see tons of aggressive SUV drivers, even higher proportion than sedan crazy drivers. I say make them pass truck license then they know how to handle large mass.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
SUV and large vehicle drivers are usually WAY too aggressive. They think that since they have a big vehicle they own the road.

I used to believe that until I started taking a 70 mile round trip commute everyday. Now I realize aggressive drivers come in all shapes and sizes. I almost get run off the road about 2 times in each direction every day.

 

[Tom]

On the other side of the coin, I see lots of people in flimsy econo-boxes cheerfully flying down the freeway at 80mph, chatting on their cell phone or putting on their lipstick, while tailgating the vehicle in front of them.

 

[Moonbeam]

Large vehicles can be confined to the right hand lane on freeways and the number of lanes for small cars multiplied by making them proportional to these small cars. Many freeways would get many new lanes reducing traffic.

 

[DealMonkey]

How about building a square, low-to-the-ground, fuel-efficient vehicle whose sides are like ramps? Any SUV that connects with the thing will use it like a ramp. Up, up, and awayyyyyyyyy!

Upside-down that is. Enjoy your roll-over accident! Smile as you pass overhead!

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Yea, we get those too in Detroit, and plenty of fatalities result, either way it's a crappy situation....and I swear to God how many people wouldnt end up in the hospital if they wore their motherfreaking seltbelt!!!! :| :| :| :|

Down in Florida all through the mid 80's through the late 90's there was consideration to disallow the street driving
of the 'Tall-Trucks' because most traffic encounters with them lead to decapitation of the passengers in a normal vehicle.

Never was passed though, Rednecks have the God Given Right to kill everything with their trucks.

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

3) smaller, cheaper cars means less expensive to insure due to lower costs in "fender benders"

Disposable, like beercans littering the highways of 'Merica.


That little re-birth of the Mini-Cooper by BMW is horrifically pricey - a status symbol death trap.

However - an occupant of the BMW Mini Cooper has a much higher chance of survival to a head-on off-set crash
at 40 MPH or better than the occupant of a Ford F-150 Pickup, due to chassis capsule containment design.

Mini Cooper Vs. Ford F-150, the Cage Match

Honda Civic and VW Beetle are exceptionally safe in collisions, due comparatively little damage to other vehicles, and are also safer for pedestrians.

My larger point with #3 is that repair costs and insurance rates have been inflated by the SUV/truck craze. The initial costs of light trucks/SUVs are higher, they do a lot of damage to other vehicles, and themselves even in minor collisions. Some insurance companies are already pricing in higher premiums for said vehicles.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: Thump553
Was there a Saab similar to the Isetta? In the mid-60s my uncle had a car like looked like the Isetta (in rural Iowa, of all places) but I remember it as a Saab. It was two cycle, and even with two people in the car (who weighed maybe 250 lb total) the car slowed way down going up even gentle hills.

Probably dangerous as h*ll, but it was a cool perspective looking forward.

1966 Saab 96 was a 2 cylinder

The Sonnet was a Sports model

(Theres a 1951 Citroen 15 - Six in the background)
There were hundreds of these around Siagon in the mid 60's, always black & rather neat, well kept.

The car I remember was like the Isetta in that the front door was literally the front of the car and it was a two seater. It's possible it was a Volvo, at the time both Volvo and Saabs were essentially unknown, even to quasi-car buffs like I was.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Thump553


The car I remember was like the Isetta in that the front door was literally the front of the car and it was a two seater. It's possible it was a Volvo, at the time both Volvo and Saabs were essentially unknown, even to quasi-car buffs like I was.

The car was produced under liscense in other countries as well, including an 'Upsized'
4 passenger tomb.

I was a teenage Isetta

(Weird - about half the time this link opens correctly, but sometimes goes to a Wikipedia dead link)

 

[CrackRabbit]

You seem to forget that the ultra compact was not entirely a european phenomenon.
Nash Metropolitan

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
You seem to forget that the ultra compact was not entirely a european phenomenon.
Nash Metropolitan

Didn't go over too well though, had about the same popularity as Diarrhea.

 

[marvdmartian]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
SUV and large vehicle drivers are usually WAY too aggressive. They think that since they have a big vehicle they own the road.

That would be called 'right of weight'!!! :shocked:

So maybe these things ought to be equipped with some reactive armor? You know, so that when a humungous suv hits it, they're nailed with a small explosive force of opposite direction.......with maybe a ball bearing or two stuffed in there too?

 

[phantom309]

My dad actually owned an Isetta in the 60s - he said it was terrifying to drive in traffic, mostly because it was extremely slow. My sisters refused to even get in it.

The Smart car as one real advantage - it's a lot easier to see on the road than, say, a Spitfire or a Miata because it's as tall as a normal car. It's just short and narrow. I think something with a wheelbase like that would be a real handful on the highway, but in the city it'd be fine. We sure saw a lot if them in Italy.