Let's play armchair AMD CEO!

opethfan

Junior Member
Nov 7, 2011
16
0
0
With all the changes going on with AMD, what would you guys do as CEO?

Let's try to be sensible and realistic as possible, within the estimated limits of AMD's budget and situation. How would you run the company heading forward?

I know not all of us are as knowledgeable in semiconductor design as others, so please take that in to account.

I'll post my ideas when I'm no longer in class on my cell phone.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
I would probably focus my marketing dollars on server class CPU's and entry level PC's, since AMD doesn't really have a performance CPU for PC gamers right now.

Come to think of it, PC Gaming probably isn't a major source of AMD's CPU revenue anyway.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
I said 4 years ago AMD needed an integrated SSD controller. Had they done that then by now llano would have a super fast and super optimized SSD controller, and hell the tech would probably have spilled over into the DDR controller and we'd have all sorts of memory optimization/compression etc. AMD chips would have twice the memory bandwidth and god knows how much more responsive the OS would be with such a low latency file system. We're talking 1-10 uS read latency vs 100uS for a SATA SSD.) They would have dominated, until intel stole their designs.

DirectX acceleration inside the cpu should have happened by now. Sharing of gpu and cpu memory spaces.

Some kind of cloud interface for gamers. AMD needs an instruction set and core logic that will help get mouse and keyboard and controller commands to the NIC, and get gpu info from the NIC to the screen as fast as possible. With 30 mS ping times, you can theoretically get 30 fps over a thinclient. AMD has to make sure ATI does not get "eliminated" by such a technology. What better way to beat em than to join em?

And of course there's ARM on bobcat.

32 core bobcat server chip.
 
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bigbubba3

Member
Mar 6, 2011
35
0
0
I would offer only 3 desktop GPUS. A ultra high end, a mid end and a low end at. 400, 200 and 100 respectively. I would prefect their design, and work very closely with the gaming community to design something that is easy for game designers to optimize to.

I would fire the entire senior CPU staff. Researchers, engineers, managers. They completely failed with bulldozer on a design level. I will then hire a visionary and a leader who will hold them to a higher expectation. I will then seek out those recently fired from Intel or ARM and bring them on.
After that I would begin work in two areas. A desktop SOC which would include integrated GPU, CPU, RAM, sound card, and a certain amount (around 25 gigs) of solid state memory to be used for OS. There would be two versions. A budget based on current APU design and a basic gaming platform. The budget would use the cheapest GDDR3 out their as the ram 4 gigs for both the cpu and gpu. Essentially it would be aimed at htpc market as well as home use. The second version would be a basic gaming SOC. It would have the same CPU only clocked higher. The RAM would be either GDR5 or xn(whatever the newer stuff is) and have 6 gigs. It would have the lowest end graphics card integrated on the chip. Again and certain amount of solid state memory would be integrated as well. The main focus amid all this is optimization. Use that time to perfect a few products not produce a ton. Marketing would focus on realistic benchmarks, and price point. Optimally these systems will offer equal performance as an Intel/Nvidia variant at a sufficiently lower price. Theory here is the economies of scale. (pretty much Apples strategy and its done them well) The second area is server/workstation cpus. Here we would put the emphasis on offering something that is cheaper than Intel while still offering comparable performance.

Although the mobile market is doing great with the current APU we will being pulling out as ARM and Tegra will overcome AMDs capacity to compete in a few years. We will continue to offer mobile solutions in the form of our lowest end SOC but in mobile form. Again only a single option. Maybe the elimination of one or two parts if that's logistically simple.

Lastly we will do our upmost to get out higher end SOC into a console. We will sleep our way into it if we have to. The sales from that are enormous and lucrative. The acquisition of such a contract would give us life for another 5 years, and the capital to re enter markets we have been pushed out of, or continue R&D of current programs.


Thats pretty much it.
 

maniac5999

Senior member
Dec 30, 2009
505
14
81
AMD will never compete with Intel at the top. Intel has is worth 33 times what AMD is, and has 34 times the operating revenue that AMD has. AMD has to focus on mid range and below CPUs, and on offering better "value" than Intel at a given price point, albeit at worse power consumption, because they will never be able to be at the same process node as Intel. They don't have the money to compete in design, and they definitely don't have the money to compete in process with Intel. I've read some things that suggest that TSMC is the only player in the FAB space to make a long term accounting, never mind economic, profit. Basically, Bobcat, Llano, etc. Unfortunately, Power consumption (which is driven by process node) is too important in server markets for AMD to even try to compete.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
AMD will never compete with Intel at the top. Intel has is worth 33 times what AMD is, and has 34 times the operating revenue that AMD has. AMD has to focus on mid range and below CPUs, and on offering better "value" than Intel at a given price point, albeit at worse power consumption, because they will never be able to be at the same process node as Intel. They don't have the money to compete in design, and they definitely don't have the money to compete in process with Intel. I've read some things that suggest that TSMC is the only player in the FAB space to make a long term accounting, never mind economic, profit. Basically, Bobcat, Llano, etc. Unfortunately, Power consumption (which is driven by process node) is too important in server markets for AMD to even try to compete.

Interesting that just 5 years ago AMD + ATI market cap was ~14B and Intel was ~$120. That was only a 9x size increase comparing Intel vs. AMD + ATI. Now that difference is almost 4x bigger.
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,982
102
106
I am really glad none of you make strategic decisions at AMD.


If I was CEO, I'd capture 95% of the marketshare and make billions! AMD really should hire me :biggrin:


On a more serious note, I would probably make sure the arch-refresh of Bobcat was well under way, while tweaking all of the small things now for an interim release.

I'd take some of the money 'saved' from firing all those people, and dump it into OpenCL.

Everything else is hard to say. Since we don't have any internal information, it is hard to know what is wrong with BD (or at least why it missed so many targets) and who knows how GCN is performing now.


I would also target an ARM/x86 hybrid APU SoC for the 20nm node. IMHO, a low-power ARM tablet with the ability to dock and run x86 code would be awesome. That would need a lot of software trickery to work though, which is why in reality that might not be the best idea. But the board probably would have kicked me out by that point anyway so why not? :awe:
 

opethfan

Junior Member
Nov 7, 2011
16
0
0
Where to begin? How about with Bobcat:

Bobcat
Bobcat is already a winning architecture. The focus needs to be on refining it and keeping it competitive. The 28nm die shrink is paramount in this regard, as it will reduce power consumption and allow for higher clocks. The Radeon 7 series is also almost upon us, which will further improve the chip's dominance in the netbook graphics market. Integrating the AES instruction set would be a logical choice since many mobile applications have sensitive data and precious clock cycles shouldn't be wasted on decryption where possible.

Why have AMD not yet developed a Bobcat SoC? With an integrated memory controller, graphics chip and CPU, the next move is to integrate the rest of the chipset, such as a USB controller, SATA, LAN and audio onto one module, reducing size and power consumption. The netbook and low power PC market would love it; smaller devices with more space for batteries, cooling, storage and lower shipping and storage costs.

It could be presented amazingly: a presentation with a gamer playing TF2 in 720p, then revealing that the system is the size of a portable HDD, with a 2GB SODIMM, some flash memory and a passive cooler. My guesses say that on a 28nm process with some tweaks, such a chip could run at 1.4 or 1.6GHz, which should be enough for an older game such as HL2 or derivatives, if only at low detail.

Bobcat's reach can easily go beyond the netbook: think about all the retail locations that use terrible old POS systems on P3 and P4 computers. Those rigs will fail sooner rather than later, and what better to replace them with than a low cost rig that is smaller, produces less heat and noise, dramatically lower power consumption (if your store chain has 1000+ POS tills, that's a lot of money a year) and is 100% software compatible with your existing software.

Embedded markets are growing, such as cars, interactive maps and news feeds at transit points, ATMs and more.

The hybrid ARM/x86 market is one that AMD should be having moist dreams over. A product like the Eeepad Transformer is a potential dream come true, if the logistics work that a tablet can run Android on ARM while not docked, then enable a legacy x86 setup when docked with some kind of virtualization or software layer that enables Windows or Linux with full speed and support.

There have been many attempts to kill x86 with (at the time) superior architectures, including those by AMD and Intel, however these have never worked since the market wants support for legacy apps, support for legacy hardware drivers and is so used to the x86 architecture. It's why Linux hasn't killed Windows and why you see so many embedded devices running Windows, too. AMD needs to cash in on this.

Fusion and Bulldozer
My first move in the consumer CPU space would be to make sure the engineers had all they needed to make refining BD a success. AMD has proven in the past that they are capable of making excellent products, both when Intel are performing well and when their competition is very weak. It's poor direction that seems to have held them back. If the rumours about automated design reducing 20% performance are true, maybe that should be fixed. Nothing about the module design is inherently wrong; it just needs fixing up in its implementation.

Apparently Anand said that the L3 cache on the FX chips didn't do much for the performance (due to latency maybe?), so why not remove or reduce it to save costs and implement a much faster, quad channel DDR3 controller instead. Quad channel 2133MHz DDR3 would be closer to the Socket 2011 coming out very soon. This would, of course require a new motherboard socket. With the space saved by the large L3 caches, a 6 module, 12 core chip could be made, providing yield and heat issues are dealt with.

AMD have gained a great reputation for being upgrade friendly. AM2 boards could even support some AM3 chips, never mind AM2+ ones. However, the AMx socket is getting a bit long in the tooth now, and with the introduction of Fusion chips, maybe combining them would be the right choice. Let's call it Socket FM3 (FM2 sounds like it should have DDR2 RAM). Using a combined socket for both Fusion and non-Fusion chips has its benefits:
* Fusion chips need more memory bandwidth to feed both the GFX and the CPU. HPC likes more fast memory. Win for both.
* AMD obviously wants to harness its competitive advantage over Intel (one of the few it has left) in its graphics department, so even enthusiasts CPUs will have integrated graphics at some point. They may be disabled at the user's choice, but AMD has the potential (providing they invest in OpenCL, but I'll touch on that later) to have OpenCL in all of its products and with dual graphics, a head over Nvidia.
* OEMs will only have to buy one or 2 batches of boards over various different types, saving money and making logistics easier.
* Users will be able to upgrade easier. If I had to buy a new board and new CPU, I'd move to Intel right now, but if my mobo didn't have to change, I'd buy an X4 or X6.

With a new socket and matching chipsets, AMD can have a future-proof setup with lots of choice and counter Intel's move of changing boards every year or 2. Let high end CPUs have lots of PCI-E x16 slots and quad channel memory while lower end ones have less PCI-E and only dual channel RAM. Make all new mobos support SATA6 and USB3 (duh!) to be fully up to date.

Trinity doesn't need much input; if Bulldozer can be refined with lower latency and shorter pipelines while improving IPC somehow; Radeon 7 series is a solid improvement over Radeon 6 and GF improves its 32nm process and yields, Trinity will be successful. Quad channel memory at higher frequencies will definitely help though.

In between
I'm stepping into unknown waters here (I don't claim to know a lot about CPU design) but to create the kind of mobile product that AMD have never been able to compete with Intel with, engineers should research to see how plausible it would be to move BD to a 28nm bulk process as opposed to the 32nm SOI they have now. I don't know anything about the benefits of SOI, or how it compares to bulk manufacturing, but if a 28nm BD chip is smaller and consumes less power, even at the cost of some performance, it might be competitive in a Fusion module against Intel in segments where Intel would otherwise be using integrated graphics (Macbook Air? 13" MBP?) but I'm out of my comfort zone a little here.

Software development
AMD is sitting on something special; a powerful CPU business and a powerful GPU business. They are the 2nd best at one and either the 1st or 2nd best at the other. And now more and more of their products will be shipped as one. They need to encourage software developers to take advantage of this.

Give devels everything they need and the incentive to create products that make the most of AMD's unique position in the market. Make sure there is the best documentation possible, in house software engineers to provide (free) support and have employees work on contributing to well known open source projects. Have coding competitions for who can make the best apps using AMD's BD and OpenCL technologies in harmony. Gives prizes to the winners. Give hardware to developers to make apps on. Intel are also going to be using OpenCL; hit Nvidia where it hurts and beat Intel with their superior GPU tech while preaching that it's an open, widely adopted standard.

Marketing
Make AMD a household name: TV advertising is expensive, but to beat Intel out of people's homes, you have to break into their living rooms and their minds. AMD are an unknown name outside of tech circles; they're a knock off or "2nd best" to general users - there's no trust or association. Marketing needs to build that by pushing the advantages of AMD to users: lower prices, great graphics performance, innovative technology.

Game Consoles
As said above, AMD need to keep their relationship with MS for the next Xbox. Their graphics chips are still strong and competitive, so that's good. Even if they have to give huge discounts, it's worth it for the long term relationship.

IBM
AMD has quite frequently worked with IBM, directly and indirectly. The SOI process most AMD chips are made with was pioneered by IBM, GF are part of IBM's Common Platform and as far as I've heard IBM have an x86 license, meaning that should AMD eventually fail and need to be bought out, IBM would be one of the few potential buyers who could keep making x86 chips, as AMD's agreement with Intel voids the x86 license if the company is bought out.

... And those are my thoughts. Any input? Note that I have little knowledge of CPU tech, and this is just hopeful speculation.
 

RobertPters77

Senior member
Feb 11, 2011
480
0
0
1. Fire everyone that made Bulldozer a Blunder.

2. Rehire every competent Engineer AMD lost the past 5 years.

3. Go back to the drawing board with Bulldozer. Remove what doesn't work. Rebuild it from the ground up. Make each successful iteration a... Success of course.

4. Rebuild the Fabs. Renegotiate with TSMC and GloFo.

5. Either outright purchase ARM or hold a controlling stake in the company.

6. Take the Bulldozer 'Module' approach and apply it to Bobcat with ARM cores.

7. Kick the GPU divisions ass and get GCN out the door by holiday 2012.

8. Bring back ATI and make Radeon a brand name again.

9. Redesign APUs and relabel them as 'Integrated Processing Units.'

0. Kill the Batman.
 

lamedude

Golden Member
Jan 14, 2011
1,206
10
81
What would I do? I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.
 

zlejedi

Senior member
Mar 23, 2009
303
0
0
Double the number of software engineers for GPU division for a start and work closely with game developers to make sure we don't need to release 0 day beta drivers then hotfix to 0 day beta drivers and then hotfix to hotfix before it starts working.

Adopt tick - tock strategy to never again change cpu architecture and production process at the same time.

I don't know what I'd do with Bulldozer since we lack any data if anything usefull can be made from it. For short term it probably needs to stay in hopes at least existing amd server owners will upgrade in the future.

For long term it would probably be best to work on bobcat as groundwork - 4-8 cores faster bobcats for APU market, merge the desktop and server market by using same chips with multiple cores for both (like s939 Opterons) with 8/16/32 cores probably even enable ECC on desktops.
 

opethfan

Junior Member
Nov 7, 2011
16
0
0
I'd stick with improving BD as I said in my megapost, basing my statement partially on this Ars article. Maybe the engineers can make some needed adjustments based on what the community, reviews and benchmarks say, if they didn't know before what the public wanted, per se.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
81
I would turn up to my first board meeting naked and declare there will be many changes around here!

- Everyone must come to work naked!

- We will lace the drinking water with LSD for increased productivity!

- We must die shrink thuban and make an improved 6 core and an 8 core version!

- Anyone caught using an Intel processor will be fired!
 

dma0991

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,723
1
0
I would turn up to my first board meeting naked and declare there will be many changes around here!

- Everyone must come to work naked!
Thanks a lot now you've destroyed my mind by making me imagine guys coming in to work with a saggy junk and women with saggy boobs. D:
 

veri745

Golden Member
Oct 11, 2007
1,163
4
81
1. Fire everyone that made Bulldozer a Blunder.

2. Rehire every competent Engineer AMD lost the past 5 years.

3. Go back to the drawing board with Bulldozer. Remove what doesn't work. Rebuild it from the ground up. Make each successful iteration a... Success of course.

4. Rebuild the Fabs. Renegotiate with TSMC and GloFo.

5. Either outright purchase ARM or hold a controlling stake in the company.

6. Take the Bulldozer 'Module' approach and apply it to Bobcat with ARM cores.

7. Kick the GPU divisions ass and get GCN out the door by holiday 2012.

8. Bring back ATI and make Radeon a brand name again.

9. Redesign APUs and relabel them as 'Integrated Processing Units.'

0. Kill the Batman.

So basically, you'd just spend $40 or $50 Billion and not have a product for 5 years...
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
Put my fingers in my ears and repeat "Bulldozer doesn't suck, Bulldozer doesn't suck".

Im sure thats what the CEO is doing now anyways. Afterall they kept that turd in development for years. A CEO who knew a turd from well...A turd would have flushed that thing years ago and started development on something else.
 
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