Lets talk about racism

[shimsham]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Whos at work at this time you crazy bastards

ladies of the night?

but i guess that would be SFW then, eh?

 

[imported_Lucifer]

Originally posted by: HomeAppraiser
Method Man explains the modern day use of the N word. NSFW

haha that was amusing.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: blackangst1

So your username "blackangst1" and the subject of this thread on racism are not at all related? Forgive me if I find that a bit hard to believe.

erm...what does a deep, dark feeling of angst have to do with racism?

Nothing, I suppose. But being a pensive little emo kid isn't much better than inciting racial tentions. But way to place the symantics game, I guess, you bound-together bundle of twigs. :roll:

Wow you suck at reading comprehension...in my original post I stated I am a 40 year old white guy dating a black woman... and you call me an emo kid? haha /boggle

Are you for real?

Forty year old white guys typically don't have "deep, dark feelings of angst," my good man. We have real issues to worry about. Mortgages, alimony, retirement, prostrate cancer, and such. What a sweet life you must have to have the time to dramatise your inner concerns in such a poetic fashion.

(And yes, before you smugly link me to webster's, I know that one form of angst is a synonym for "anxiety," but you must admit that angst is typically used to describe a teenager's or minority's feeling of helplessness, not those of a 40yo "corporate" man. And the use of "black" as an adjective is even more indicative of a description of the feelings of minorities.)

So, fine. You name is not meant to be controversal. But what about the many other points I originally brought up? The unoriginal thread topic coupled with the typical "reverse racism" cries? My orginal point was that this thread topic has been discussed many, many times, in a manner much more mature, organized, directed, and conducive to debate than your attempt. And in the correct Forum, as well. Funny how that got lost in the details of "OMG! My name isn't race-related! I win!"

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: blackangst1

So your username "blackangst1" and the subject of this thread on racism are not at all related? Forgive me if I find that a bit hard to believe.

erm...what does a deep, dark feeling of angst have to do with racism?

Nothing, I suppose. But being a pensive little emo kid isn't much better than inciting racial tentions. But way to place the symantics game, I guess, you bound-together bundle of twigs. :roll:

Wow you suck at reading comprehension...in my original post I stated I am a 40 year old white guy dating a black woman... and you call me an emo kid? haha /boggle

Are you for real?

Forty year old white guys typically don't have "deep, dark feelings of angst," my good man. We have real issues to worry about. Mortgages, alimony, retirement, prostrate cancer, and such. What a sweet life you must have to have the time to dramatise your inner concerns in such a poetic fashion.

(And yes, before you smugly link me to webster's, I know that one form of angst is a synonym for "anxiety," but you must admit that angst is typically used to describe a teenager's or minority's feeling of helplessness, not those of a 40yo "corporate" man. And the use of "black" as an adjective is even more indicative of a description of the feelings of minorities.)

So, fine. You name is not meant to be controversal. But what about the many other points I originally brought up? The unoriginal thread topic coupled with the typical "reverse racism" cries? My orginal point was that this thread topic has been discussed many, many times, in a manner much more mature, organized, directed, and conducive to debate than your attempt. And in the correct Forum, as well. Funny how that got lost in the details of "OMG! My name isn't race-related! I win!"

How many original threads are there on this board anyway? I mean really. And the maturity of the responses has nothing to do with an OP's statements, but rather the thread's participants, no? And how is this not the correct forum? P&N? This is a life issue, not a political one.

As far as my screen name goes, sorry if my bi-polar-trust-funded-self didnt fit into your definition of adult. And yes, to answer your comment, life is very sweet.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: blackangst1

So your username "blackangst1" and the subject of this thread on racism are not at all related? Forgive me if I find that a bit hard to believe.

erm...what does a deep, dark feeling of angst have to do with racism?

Nothing, I suppose. But being a pensive little emo kid isn't much better than inciting racial tentions. But way to place the symantics game, I guess, you bound-together bundle of twigs. :roll:

Wow you suck at reading comprehension...in my original post I stated I am a 40 year old white guy dating a black woman... and you call me an emo kid? haha /boggle

Are you for real?

Forty year old white guys typically don't have "deep, dark feelings of angst," my good man. We have real issues to worry about. Mortgages, alimony, retirement, prostrate cancer, and such. What a sweet life you must have to have the time to dramatise your inner concerns in such a poetic fashion.

(And yes, before you smugly link me to webster's, I know that one form of angst is a synonym for "anxiety," but you must admit that angst is typically used to describe a teenager's or minority's feeling of helplessness, not those of a 40yo "corporate" man. And the use of "black" as an adjective is even more indicative of a description of the feelings of minorities.)

So, fine. You name is not meant to be controversal. But what about the many other points I originally brought up? The unoriginal thread topic coupled with the typical "reverse racism" cries? My orginal point was that this thread topic has been discussed many, many times, in a manner much more mature, organized, directed, and conducive to debate than your attempt. And in the correct Forum, as well. Funny how that got lost in the details of "OMG! My name isn't race-related! I win!"

LOL sometimes you really crack me up CK.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ryan

Originally posted by: sisq0kidd

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Ryan
if you understood the affirmative action system, you'd understand that race only comes into play when there are two EQUALLY qualified applicants. The basic principles of AA would not let unqualified applicants be hired. Any instances where this has happened have been due to a basic misunderstanding of the AA system.

With AA, if Jo-Ann, a white woman, and Cindy, a black woman, both applied for a job position, and they were BOTH equally qualified, Cindy would be more likely to get the position due to AA.

If Jo-ann was more qualified, and Cindy was not, Cindy would not get the position.

Yeah, two people equally qualified, but the employer is forced to hire someone of a certain race? That's the very definition of racism.

Affirmative Action is racist on two counts.

1. It assumes the white employer is too racist to give the minority the job if they are qualified.

2. And it assumes if the white employer isn't racist, the minority candidate is too dumb to earn the job themselves.

Both of which statements are flat out racist and lies.

I disagree. Racism is the belief that one race is superior than the other, and picking one race over another to attempt to correct problems that may have led to unfortunate situations currently is not racist. No one is assuming the employer is racist.

Affirmative action assumes that both a white and black man are already equaly qualified, so your second point is moot.

yep

Is it also racist if one thinks that a race other than their own is superior in one fashion or another?
It's fact that Asians are intellectually superior as a collective. I'm not Asian, and I submit to and admire that.
Why would there be something wrong with an "Asian Pride" campaign that says "We're the smartest sons-a-bitches on the planet!" when it's true, ego issues aside?

 

[l Xes l]

u jew!

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

LOL sometimes you really crack me up CK.

Someone has to entertain the masses.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: HomeAppraiser
Method Man explains the modern day use of the N word. NSFW

OMG that was hilarious! The end of it is great!

 

[DaShen]

PIE is soo freaking good

Take Care,
The Boss Jr.

 

[imported_sling]

So we have AA to give minorities an equal opportunity right? What is an opportunity in life? What about all the non-minorities that grow up in a poor area, with high crime rates, drug use, and a population composed of the dregs of society? Is their opportunity greater because they are white?

I don't know, but my feelings are this: This world, and this country doesn't owe you. This feeling of entitlement, because you're poor or you're black or you're asian or left handed with blue eyes, or whatever, is wrong. You aren't born with an etitlement to get a job because of your color if you are "tied" with a white person in qualifications.

This is where my anamosity for AA and the such comes from: I'll use me for an example. I'm a white male and I want to go to the University of Michigan. Now, another guy, black, takes all the same placement tests and is equally suited to go to school there. However, he gets extra points toward getting admitted because of his color, so if we're even, but still slightly under the qualifications for admittance, he could get in, and I'd have to go find somewhere else to go. How is this an equal opportunity? It's not, he would get in because he's is, in some way, "entitled" to a chance, because he's black.

Why am I not "entitled" to this same chance? Because I'm white, and white people kept slaves and racism ensued upon the slaves release. My issue is this. I've never kept slaves, and I'm not racist. My family never had slaves, not in the 75 years or more before the Civil War (this is about as far back as we can go.) My family hasn't graduated one person from a four year college, we have lived in these areas where falling into drugs and crime are easiest, and we've had to make our own opportunities. Just to put in perspective what poor is, and I know there are worse cases, but ours was one of some hardship. Household income = $18000/yr, a split household, with a step mother and a father, with 6 children. We had what we needed, never recieved government assistance, and our opportunity in this country was still equal to everyone elses, and based purely on choices we made in life.

So that said, is a minority more entitled to an opportunity at an education at a specific University than I am? I don't think so. Those born into poverty face a tough road, but not a road so impossible to travel that you can't make it if you make the right choices in life. I'm just not of the thinking that a handout is good for a person. You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

I don't belive that special consideration is appropriate for someone purely based on color or cultural background. The world doesn't owe anyone. No one is entitled to anything but a chance to do what you want to do. If that's success, do it. If what you want is a life in poverty, crime, and drugs, by all means, it's available.

You aren't entitled to anything but being free to chose.

Racism exists, slavery existed. Not everyone participated. White Joe from the trailer park doesn't get the consideration Black Joe from the ghetto gets. How is this equal opportunity? It's not.

Is there really any equality? How many times have you said "Life isn't fair."? It's not, so if it isn't fair, how is it equal for everyone?

These aren't answers, nor are they questions. Just my thoughts, be them right or wrong.




Oh yeah, first post

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Agnostos Insania

Originally posted by: Muse
You're right, it should be OK. But guess what? It is OK. Yes, you will get flack. Why? Because, probably, whites have less to be proud of than the institutionally disadvantaged, and prima facia there have been more opportunities for whites than those other ethnic groups in the USA.

Huh? Whites have less to be proud of? How so?

Only because they haven't had to overcome as much, generally speaking, of course. Some whites have a lot more to be proud of than others. That ex GF of mine was speaking generally. It was just a statement she made, not part of an extended discussion. I assure you she was highly intelligent and knew what she was talking about.

A GF of mine (white) told me that whites will never be able to make it up to the blacks for what they did to them in this country.

I still can't understand how people can honestly believe modern Caucasian people are responsible for what their ancestors have done, especially since the very same modern people have denounced and changed the system(s) voluntarily.

[/quote]

Well, you're right, of course. There's a song called "Caucasian Guilt" by former S.F. Punk band Noh Mercy and that's exactly what it's about. "I never made no black my slave," etc. It goes on, "I never put no Jap in a camp."

The tensions and difficulties in the world we have inherited are starkly portrayed in that song and suggested by your comments. How do you absolve and excuse yourself from the wrongs of those who lived before you? Pretend they were never perpetrated? No, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal even though I live in Berkeley. But I try hard not to build a wall of denial or suspicion around me. I try to treat people honestly and fairly.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: sling
So we have AA to give minorities an equal opportunity right? What is an opportunity in life? What about all the non-minorities that grow up in a poor area, with high crime rates, drug use, and a population composed of the dregs of society? Is their opportunity greater because they are white?

I don't know, but my feelings are this: This world, and this country doesn't owe you. This feeling of entitlement, because you're poor or you're black or you're asian or left handed with blue eyes, or whatever, is wrong. You aren't born with an etitlement to get a job because of your color if you are "tied" with a white person in qualifications.

This is where my anamosity for AA and the such comes from: I'll use me for an example. I'm a white male and I want to go to the University of Michigan. Now, another guy, black, takes all the same placement tests and is equally suited to go to school there. However, he gets extra points toward getting admitted because of his color, so if we're even, but still slightly under the qualifications for admittance, he could get in, and I'd have to go find somewhere else to go. How is this an equal opportunity? It's not, he would get in because he's is, in some way, "entitled" to a chance, because he's black.

Why am I not "entitled" to this same chance? Because I'm white, and white people kept slaves and racism ensued upon the slaves release. My issue is this. I've never kept slaves, and I'm not racist. My family never had slaves, not in the 75 years or more before the Civil War (this is about as far back as we can go.) My family hasn't graduated one person from a four year college, we have lived in these areas where falling into drugs and crime are easiest, and we've had to make our own opportunities. Just to put in perspective what poor is, and I know there are worse cases, but ours was one of some hardship. Household income = $18000/yr, a split household, with a step mother and a father, with 6 children. We had what we needed, never recieved government assistance, and our opportunity in this country was still equal to everyone elses, and based purely on choices we made in life.

So that said, is a minority more entitled to an opportunity at an education at a specific University than I am? I don't think so. Those born into poverty face a tough road, but not a road so impossible to travel that you can't make it if you make the right choices in life. I'm just not of the thinking that a handout is good for a person. You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

I don't belive that special consideration is appropriate for someone purely based on color or cultural background. The world doesn't owe anyone. No one is entitled to anything but a chance to do what you want to do. If that's success, do it. If what you want is a life in poverty, crime, and drugs, by all means, it's available.

You aren't entitled to anything but being free to chose.

Racism exists, slavery existed. Not everyone participated. White Joe from the trailer park doesn't get the consideration Black Joe from the ghetto gets. How is this equal opportunity? It's not.

Is there really any equality? How many times have you said "Life isn't fair."? It's not, so if it isn't fair, how is it equal for everyone?

These aren't answers, nor are they questions. Just my thoughts, be them right or wrong.




Oh yeah, first post

When you do get in college - take an ethics course, study AA, WHITE privilege, and male privilege.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: sling
So we have AA to give minorities an equal opportunity right? What is an opportunity in life? What about all the non-minorities that grow up in a poor area, with high crime rates, drug use, and a population composed of the dregs of society? Is their opportunity greater because they are white?

I don't know, but my feelings are this: This world, and this country doesn't owe you. This feeling of entitlement, because you're poor or you're black or you're asian or left handed with blue eyes, or whatever, is wrong. You aren't born with an etitlement to get a job because of your color if you are "tied" with a white person in qualifications.

This is where my anamosity for AA and the such comes from: I'll use me for an example. I'm a white male and I want to go to the University of Michigan. Now, another guy, black, takes all the same placement tests and is equally suited to go to school there. However, he gets extra points toward getting admitted because of his color, so if we're even, but still slightly under the qualifications for admittance, he could get in, and I'd have to go find somewhere else to go. How is this an equal opportunity? It's not, he would get in because he's is, in some way, "entitled" to a chance, because he's black.

Why am I not "entitled" to this same chance? Because I'm white, and white people kept slaves and racism ensued upon the slaves release. My issue is this. I've never kept slaves, and I'm not racist. My family never had slaves, not in the 75 years or more before the Civil War (this is about as far back as we can go.) My family hasn't graduated one person from a four year college, we have lived in these areas where falling into drugs and crime are easiest, and we've had to make our own opportunities. Just to put in perspective what poor is, and I know there are worse cases, but ours was one of some hardship. Household income = $18000/yr, a split household, with a step mother and a father, with 6 children. We had what we needed, never recieved government assistance, and our opportunity in this country was still equal to everyone elses, and based purely on choices we made in life.

So that said, is a minority more entitled to an opportunity at an education at a specific University than I am? I don't think so. Those born into poverty face a tough road, but not a road so impossible to travel that you can't make it if you make the right choices in life. I'm just not of the thinking that a handout is good for a person. You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

I don't belive that special consideration is appropriate for someone purely based on color or cultural background. The world doesn't owe anyone. No one is entitled to anything but a chance to do what you want to do. If that's success, do it. If what you want is a life in poverty, crime, and drugs, by all means, it's available.

You aren't entitled to anything but being free to chose.

Racism exists, slavery existed. Not everyone participated. White Joe from the trailer park doesn't get the consideration Black Joe from the ghetto gets. How is this equal opportunity? It's not.

Is there really any equality? How many times have you said "Life isn't fair."? It's not, so if it isn't fair, how is it equal for everyone?

These aren't answers, nor are they questions. Just my thoughts, be them right or wrong.




Oh yeah, first post

Real good post Sling, first or not. I see your point and like you said, life isn't fair. I have to admit I'm not entirely comfortable with AA either, although it hasn't touched me IIRC, as it appears to maybe be touching you. AA is a difficult subject and complicated and not something I've ever personally discussed.

Hang in there and don't let go of that dream to graduate from a 4 year college and when you have, continue from there.

Racism, in the words of Alan Watts is a "difficult and thorny subject."

 

[Randum]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Randum
I'm taking an entire course on race and racism and those "statistics" you speak of, with certain colors of people having better talents? makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It has to do with CULTURE
not race. Did you know you differ more from your same "race" than from other "races"? genically? Did you know that?

The more you read about race the more you realize its a social construct and its more culture than race.

Oh I completely agree...the middle east is proof of this. The question tho is how to get away from it?

That is the question I wish I knew the answer to. I really don't like racism at all-its frustrated, but yet it reflects the shallowness of our culture. our clothes, purchases, whats "popular" in American culture, its just too bad people have to suffer this stigma

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: sling
So we have AA to give minorities an equal opportunity right? What is an opportunity in life? What about all the non-minorities that grow up in a poor area, with high crime rates, drug use, and a population composed of the dregs of society? Is their opportunity greater because they are white?

I don't know, but my feelings are this: This world, and this country doesn't owe you. This feeling of entitlement, because you're poor or you're black or you're asian or left handed with blue eyes, or whatever, is wrong. You aren't born with an etitlement to get a job because of your color if you are "tied" with a white person in qualifications.

This is where my anamosity for AA and the such comes from: I'll use me for an example. I'm a white male and I want to go to the University of Michigan. Now, another guy, black, takes all the same placement tests and is equally suited to go to school there. However, he gets extra points toward getting admitted because of his color, so if we're even, but still slightly under the qualifications for admittance, he could get in, and I'd have to go find somewhere else to go. How is this an equal opportunity? It's not, he would get in because he's is, in some way, "entitled" to a chance, because he's black.

Why am I not "entitled" to this same chance? Because I'm white, and white people kept slaves and racism ensued upon the slaves release. My issue is this. I've never kept slaves, and I'm not racist. My family never had slaves, not in the 75 years or more before the Civil War (this is about as far back as we can go.) My family hasn't graduated one person from a four year college, we have lived in these areas where falling into drugs and crime are easiest, and we've had to make our own opportunities. Just to put in perspective what poor is, and I know there are worse cases, but ours was one of some hardship. Household income = $18000/yr, a split household, with a step mother and a father, with 6 children. We had what we needed, never recieved government assistance, and our opportunity in this country was still equal to everyone elses, and based purely on choices we made in life.

So that said, is a minority more entitled to an opportunity at an education at a specific University than I am? I don't think so. Those born into poverty face a tough road, but not a road so impossible to travel that you can't make it if you make the right choices in life. I'm just not of the thinking that a handout is good for a person. You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

I don't belive that special consideration is appropriate for someone purely based on color or cultural background. The world doesn't owe anyone. No one is entitled to anything but a chance to do what you want to do. If that's success, do it. If what you want is a life in poverty, crime, and drugs, by all means, it's available.

You aren't entitled to anything but being free to chose.

Racism exists, slavery existed. Not everyone participated. White Joe from the trailer park doesn't get the consideration Black Joe from the ghetto gets. How is this equal opportunity? It's not.

Is there really any equality? How many times have you said "Life isn't fair."? It's not, so if it isn't fair, how is it equal for everyone?

These aren't answers, nor are they questions. Just my thoughts, be them right or wrong.




Oh yeah, first post

Real good post Sling, first or not. I see your point and like you said, life isn't fair. I have to admit I'm not entirely comfortable with AA either, although it hasn't touched me IIRC, as it appears to maybe be touching you. AA is a difficult subject and complicated and not something I've ever personally discussed.

Hang in there and don't let go of that dream to graduate from a 4 year college and when you have, continue from there.

Racism, in the words of Alan Watts is a "difficult and thorny subject."

Life isn't FAIR for you as a white male?

Please go listen to some Nine Inch Nails and stop bellyaching. Better yet get a job. Its easy as hell these days for a white dude even if the market isn't so good.

 

[imported_sling]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Life isn't FAIR for you as a white male?

Please go listen to some Nine Inch Nails and stop bellyaching. Better yet get a job. Its easy as hell these days for a white dude even if the market isn't so good.

Me getting into college was an example, I am gainfully employed. Bellyaching? Don't think so, that's not what I was doing there. Just pointing out some of the cons of our system. As far as it being easy as hell to get a job because you're a white male: No, no it's not. It's easy for anyone to get A job. It's difficult to get a GOOD job no matter who you are.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: sling
So we have AA to give minorities an equal opportunity right? What is an opportunity in life? What about all the non-minorities that grow up in a poor area, with high crime rates, drug use, and a population composed of the dregs of society? Is their opportunity greater because they are white?

I don't know, but my feelings are this: This world, and this country doesn't owe you. This feeling of entitlement, because you're poor or you're black or you're asian or left handed with blue eyes, or whatever, is wrong. You aren't born with an etitlement to get a job because of your color if you are "tied" with a white person in qualifications.

This is where my anamosity for AA and the such comes from: I'll use me for an example. I'm a white male and I want to go to the University of Michigan. Now, another guy, black, takes all the same placement tests and is equally suited to go to school there. However, he gets extra points toward getting admitted because of his color, so if we're even, but still slightly under the qualifications for admittance, he could get in, and I'd have to go find somewhere else to go. How is this an equal opportunity? It's not, he would get in because he's is, in some way, "entitled" to a chance, because he's black.

Why am I not "entitled" to this same chance? Because I'm white, and white people kept slaves and racism ensued upon the slaves release. My issue is this. I've never kept slaves, and I'm not racist. My family never had slaves, not in the 75 years or more before the Civil War (this is about as far back as we can go.) My family hasn't graduated one person from a four year college, we have lived in these areas where falling into drugs and crime are easiest, and we've had to make our own opportunities. Just to put in perspective what poor is, and I know there are worse cases, but ours was one of some hardship. Household income = $18000/yr, a split household, with a step mother and a father, with 6 children. We had what we needed, never recieved government assistance, and our opportunity in this country was still equal to everyone elses, and based purely on choices we made in life.

So that said, is a minority more entitled to an opportunity at an education at a specific University than I am? I don't think so. Those born into poverty face a tough road, but not a road so impossible to travel that you can't make it if you make the right choices in life. I'm just not of the thinking that a handout is good for a person. You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

I don't belive that special consideration is appropriate for someone purely based on color or cultural background. The world doesn't owe anyone. No one is entitled to anything but a chance to do what you want to do. If that's success, do it. If what you want is a life in poverty, crime, and drugs, by all means, it's available.

You aren't entitled to anything but being free to chose.

Racism exists, slavery existed. Not everyone participated. White Joe from the trailer park doesn't get the consideration Black Joe from the ghetto gets. How is this equal opportunity? It's not.

Is there really any equality? How many times have you said "Life isn't fair."? It's not, so if it isn't fair, how is it equal for everyone?

These aren't answers, nor are they questions. Just my thoughts, be them right or wrong.




Oh yeah, first post

Michigan's point system gave just as many points to being at a socioeconomic disadvantage as being black. So you would have gotten the same benefits as a black person. So you are/were considered just as "entitled". They also gave points to being in an underrepresented Michigan County or underrepresented state. Also for your parent being an alumni. Those and a few other points were awared for "non merit" categories. But beyond all that, most of the points were actually gained by having good grades and a good gpa.

Michigan wanted to promote diversity. Being poorer means a poorer education received in a great majority of cases. I don't have a problem with Michigan acknowledging that all GPA and SAT scores aren't created equal. I don't think anyone here is unfamiliar with how horrible inner city schools are. Coming out of one of those with a 1000 SAT score is definitely more of an accomplishment than at a suburban school. Is the calculation exact? Of course not, because you can't quantify something like that even if you know it's a factor. But regardless, they're not giving people things just because they're black or poor, but acknowledging that there are some things, only one of which is race, which put you at a disadvantage. If you are a qualified white guy, you'd get in also. No "undeserving" black person would be taking your spot. That's just paranoia.

Why again is that a problem? I think a mis-understanding of AA policies leads more to people's dislike than anything real.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Muse

Originally posted by: sling
So we have AA to give minorities an equal opportunity right? What is an opportunity in life? What about all the non-minorities that grow up in a poor area, with high crime rates, drug use, and a population composed of the dregs of society? Is their opportunity greater because they are white?

I don't know, but my feelings are this: This world, and this country doesn't owe you. This feeling of entitlement, because you're poor or you're black or you're asian or left handed with blue eyes, or whatever, is wrong. You aren't born with an etitlement to get a job because of your color if you are "tied" with a white person in qualifications.

This is where my anamosity for AA and the such comes from: I'll use me for an example. I'm a white male and I want to go to the University of Michigan. Now, another guy, black, takes all the same placement tests and is equally suited to go to school there. However, he gets extra points toward getting admitted because of his color, so if we're even, but still slightly under the qualifications for admittance, he could get in, and I'd have to go find somewhere else to go. How is this an equal opportunity? It's not, he would get in because he's is, in some way, "entitled" to a chance, because he's black.

Why am I not "entitled" to this same chance? Because I'm white, and white people kept slaves and racism ensued upon the slaves release. My issue is this. I've never kept slaves, and I'm not racist. My family never had slaves, not in the 75 years or more before the Civil War (this is about as far back as we can go.) My family hasn't graduated one person from a four year college, we have lived in these areas where falling into drugs and crime are easiest, and we've had to make our own opportunities. Just to put in perspective what poor is, and I know there are worse cases, but ours was one of some hardship. Household income = $18000/yr, a split household, with a step mother and a father, with 6 children. We had what we needed, never recieved government assistance, and our opportunity in this country was still equal to everyone elses, and based purely on choices we made in life.

So that said, is a minority more entitled to an opportunity at an education at a specific University than I am? I don't think so. Those born into poverty face a tough road, but not a road so impossible to travel that you can't make it if you make the right choices in life. I'm just not of the thinking that a handout is good for a person. You know what they say about teaching a man to fish.

I don't belive that special consideration is appropriate for someone purely based on color or cultural background. The world doesn't owe anyone. No one is entitled to anything but a chance to do what you want to do. If that's success, do it. If what you want is a life in poverty, crime, and drugs, by all means, it's available.

You aren't entitled to anything but being free to chose.

Racism exists, slavery existed. Not everyone participated. White Joe from the trailer park doesn't get the consideration Black Joe from the ghetto gets. How is this equal opportunity? It's not.

Is there really any equality? How many times have you said "Life isn't fair."? It's not, so if it isn't fair, how is it equal for everyone?

These aren't answers, nor are they questions. Just my thoughts, be them right or wrong.




Oh yeah, first post

Real good post Sling, first or not. I see your point and like you said, life isn't fair. I have to admit I'm not entirely comfortable with AA either, although it hasn't touched me IIRC, as it appears to maybe be touching you. AA is a difficult subject and complicated and not something I've ever personally discussed.

Hang in there and don't let go of that dream to graduate from a 4 year college and when you have, continue from there.

Racism, in the words of Alan Watts is a "difficult and thorny subject."

Life isn't FAIR for you as a white male?

Please go listen to some Nine Inch Nails and stop bellyaching. Better yet get a job. Its easy as hell these days for a white dude even if the market isn't so good.

Dude, turn in your card. You don't belong online, period. Go pick a fight out there on the street and get your nose punched. Maybe that will get your attention.

Who were you responding to? Sling or me (Muse)? Either way, your comments are absurd, ridiculous, uncalled for, insensitive. The OP invited people into the thread if they promised to remain civil. Personal attacks are NOT civil. I retaliate here, I'm not the guy to make a personal attack otherwise.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: sling

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Life isn't FAIR for you as a white male?

Please go listen to some Nine Inch Nails and stop bellyaching. Better yet get a job. Its easy as hell these days for a white dude even if the market isn't so good.

Me getting into college was an example, I am gainfully employed. Bellyaching? Don't think so, that's not what I was doing there. Just pointing out some of the cons of our system. As far as it being easy as hell to get a job because you're a white male: No, no it's not. It's easy for anyone to get A job. It's difficult to get a GOOD job no matter who you are.

Dig, it's easy for some people to get a job. Some people are not so employable. Get real. We may have all been "created equal," but we do not continually remain so.
What if you are:

Undereducated?
Disabled?
Sick?
Impoverished?
Homeless?
Old?
Overqualified?
Live where there are just no jobs (don't tell me you've never heard of that)?
Find it hard to fit anybody's job profile for any number of reasons?

If you don't believe this, you are part of the problem. These people what? Fall through the cracks?

 

[The Godfather]

Hm all i gotta say is that very very many black people are lazy as hell, and they put grills in their teeth and sagg their pants and always start stuff with people. And then they blame the white man because they can't find a job. I've lived in a freaking ghetto here in GA, and when i went to school, the majority was black. 95% of every student in all my classes had failing grades. I even hear stuff like "Man its cause i'm black" in school when a teacher gives them a bad grade. Maybe its the way they reaise their kids, i don't know, because many think that (example: white dude applies for job, black dude should get it cause he's black). Yeah but he wasn't born during slavery so he had the same chances a white person would.

No, i'm not racist, i'm just giving you the facts from personal observation. And its not like i was raised that way, i'm a 4 year immigrant, so everything is from personal interpretation.

Even if you try to prove me wrong, you can not.

Yes, i have many educated and nice black friends, i'm just talking saying that very very very many of them aren't so civilized.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: The Godfather
Hm all i gotta say is that very very many black people are lazy as hell, and they put grills in their teeth and sagg their pants and always start stuff with people. And then they blame the white man because they can't find a job. I've lived in a freaking ghetto here in GA, and when i went to school, the majority was black. 95% of every student in all my classes had failing grades. I even hear stuff like "Man its cause i'm black" in school when a teacher gives them a bad grade. Maybe its the way they reaise their kids, i don't know, because many think that (example: white dude applies for job, black dude should get it cause he's black). Yeah but he wasn't born during slavery so he had the same chances a white person would.

No, i'm not racist, i'm just giving you the facts from personal observation. And its not like i was raised that way, i'm a 4 year immigrant, so everything is from personal interpretation.

Even if you try to prove me wrong, you can not.

Yes, i have many educated and nice black friends, i'm just talking saying that very very very many of them aren't so civilized.

The sad truth is that we have a whole lot of problems in this world and in a lot of ways things aren't getting better, they're getting worse. It's not easy for me to come to a conclusion like that because it's not my nature to think that way. By nature I'm an optimist, although you may doubt that based on my first sentence above. I do not reminisce about the "good old days," I don't get nostalgic, I look for the silver lining. But I see so many people who think it's so cool to eschew any kind of institution even if it's there for their own good. Then they will blame these things they turn their back on for their own problems. People will not take responsibility for their own actions. There's a corner store 1/2 block away from my house. Every day people drop wrappers in front of my house. It's disgusting. People have no respect, they just don't care.