Let's talk about the alt-right

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Okay, so I've been trying to get a handle on the alt-right. I've tried watching a few videos of Richard Spencer and Jared Taylor talk. It seems like it's more of an attitude than really laying out specifically any specific policy proposals. The closest I can see is of course immigration restriction. They don't really argue about facts, but they seem to argue about conclusions, ie yes America was and is racist, and that is natural and it doesn't need to be remedied.

It is very similar to The Bell Curve, which Andrew Sullivan advocated. In the 1990's.

Anyone have a better view on them?
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,227
153
106
Might want to get more specific by what you mean with "alt-right".

The "progressive" crowd here (and pretty much everywhere) will label anyone not as bury-the-needle-Left as themselves as "alt-right" (or just "white supremacists" etc.) even if they're also liberal / left in reality.
 
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Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
How many people are we talking about here? A few hundred? A thousand? Million?
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
How many people are we talking about here? A few hundred? A thousand? Million?

I'd argue that a substantial portion, probably a majority of the white population in America, agree with Spencer.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
The alt-Right is just an amalgam of nationalists and white supremacists along with some fringe libertarian elements. They are less educated, poorer, and more prone to conspiracy theories than the FOX news neocons who came before them. They also have a fermenting anti-semitic sentiment among much of their membership.


All in all, they are a despicable group of human beings who were long ago politically marginalized for very good reasons... which we will all soon find out all about.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,593
7,653
136
I'd argue that a substantial portion, probably a majority of the white population in America, agree with Spencer.

Who? First glance at google simply indicates some sort of Neo Nazi. Majority of Americans oppose that shit.
You appear to be elevating some young person who does not deserve such notoriety.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Can't decide who's conspiracys I like better, the lefts or the "alt-rights" (does the right exist still too?).
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,593
7,653
136
And on the subject of granting people undue notoriety, President Donald Trump.
You do realize it's the media that MADE him President, by incessantly talking about him non-stop, right?
Even through hatred they granted him free air and free messaging time. They made him both popular and infamous.
And in our partisan world even an infamous person can automatically be granted power as long as they oppose someone else.

It's in this game of divide and conquer that entirely unfit and unwell men can rise to power.
A broken primary system without run-off elections let his minority rise to GOP victory.
Simply not being Hillary let his minority rise to national victory.

But most of all it was the media's non-stop Trump coverage from Summer 2015 that propelled him forward.
And now you wish to make mountains out of mole hills...the media will double down and give birth to the "alt-right" by giving it air time.
Sometimes it's best not to expose the general populace to a particular contagion until you know they're ready to handle it.
I fear that Trump proves America is not ready for the level of exposure that Democrats intend to provide.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
The alt-right are just a loose group of paranoid douchebags who are united by their fear of everyone who isn't them. Without their fear of 'the others,' they wouldn't exist.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
I'd argue that a substantial portion, probably a majority of the white population in America, agree with Spencer.
Nope. Most white Americans, like most Americans in general, believe in meritocracy and equal protection of the laws, and not your entitlement by accident of birth bullshit.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Might want to get more specific by what you mean with "alt-right".

The "progressive" crowd here (and pretty much everywhere) will label anyone not as bury-the-needle-Left as themselves as "alt-right" (or just "white supremacists" etc.) even if they're also liberal / left in reality.
Says the paranoid sociopath whose brush is so broad that he consistently labels everyone who disagrees with him as the 'regressive left.'
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,710
25,048
136
Might want to get more specific by what you mean with "alt-right".

The "progressive" crowd here (and pretty much everywhere) will label anyone not as bury-the-needle-Left as themselves as "alt-right" (or just "white supremacists" etc.) even if they're also liberal / left in reality.

Blue Max hits the ironing out of the park again while killing a field full of scarecrows.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Blue Max hits the ironing out of the park again while killing a field full of scarecrows.
I've determined that the biggest issue with the alt-right, and the cause of their misogyny in general, is that they're physically incapable of pleasuring a woman. I guess that we're supposed to feel sorry for them, but I'm not going to.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
I've determined that the biggest issue with the alt-right, and the cause of their misogyny in general, is that they're physically incapable of pleasuring a woman. I guess that we're supposed to feel sorry for them, but I'm not going to.

They can fuck the shit out of a fleshlight tho.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
I'd argue that a substantial portion, probably a majority of the white population in America, agree with Spencer.
Based on a feeling? Did this feeling form from experience from sea to shining sea or is it a feeling you formed from watching fake news and reading alt-left web sources?
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
I like being called a progressive because it means that my brain can think critically, accept new information as it becomes available, process it and employ any necessary changes that might be required as a result of said data. On the opposite side we have group think promoted by many different biases which tend to toe the line ignoring any relevant data that would influence any normal person to shift accordingly.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I'd argue that a substantial portion, probably a majority of the white population in America, agree with Spencer.

He advocates for a white homeland for a "dispossessed white race" and calls for "peaceful ethnic cleansing" to halt the "deconstruction" of European culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_B._Spencer

In December 2016, the neo-Nazi and white supremacist website The Daily Stormer published a list of six local Jews in the city along with their personal information, claiming that they were harming the business of Richard Spencer's mother and asking readers to "take action" against them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitefish,_Montana
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
I like being called a progressive because it means that my brain can think critically, accept new information as it becomes available, process it and employ any necessary changes that might be required as a result of said data. On the opposite side we have group think promoted by many different biases which tend to toe the line ignoring any relevant data that would influence any normal person to shift accordingly.
You're just willingly embracing a definition that suits your biases and if you were as intelligent as you feel you are, you would understand that. You're just as guilty of group think because the end result of your critical thinking always takes you to the same place. That being that your tribe is the best tribe.

Communists, understanding that the label that defined their ideology had turned negative "reinvented" themselves with a new label. That label was 'Progressive'. Same ideology, different label. Some people like to used the term 'Socialist' feeling that it better describes themselves but they are all variants of the same ideology and an ideology that has failed with every iteration. Venezuela would be the most recent example.

But, fear not. With the massive failure of the progressive movement under eight years of President Obama, these same people will once again reinvent themselves and come up with a new word to label their movement. Communist didn't work. Progressive didn't work. Socialist didn't work. Perhaps this new label will be one you will embrace in an unthinking fashion. We'll stand by to find out.
 
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Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,227
153
106
I like being called a progressive because it means that my brain can think critically, accept new information as it becomes available, process it and employ any necessary changes that might be required as a result of said data. On the opposite side we have group think promoted by many different biases which tend to toe the line ignoring any relevant data that would influence any normal person to shift accordingly.

A laudable goal, but not what progressives believe as a group. The progressive movement does not think critically, it demands groupthink and believing as the collective does. New information is rejected - only information provided BY the collective's approves sources (themselves) is accepted. Changes fluctuate wildly depending on mood and the crisis of the day, often contradicting themselves.

The progressive uberleft is the ones demanding all (especially its members) toe the line. Even the smallest of deviations or errors will result in the collective dogpiling en masse. Just look what happened to Joss Whedon who was a hero of the progressives for making strong female characters until he was considered to have made one small slip, then the collective turned on him and denounced him as a "vile sexist".
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,227
153
106
Says the paranoid sociopath whose brush is so broad that he consistently labels everyone who disagrees with him as the 'regressive left.'

If you disagree with me BECAUSE your opinions are that of the *cough* Progressive Left, then the label fits - doesn't it?
If you disagree and actually state your own opinions that are based on objective facts, and present those facts to me, not only will I consider those facts, I'll also know you're capable of independent thought instead of being driven by the collective groupthink demanded by some groups out there (and that's not limited to the progressive left, many cults operate the same way.)
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,227
153
106
I've determined that the biggest issue with the alt-right, and the cause of their misogyny in general, is that they're physically incapable of pleasuring a woman. I guess that we're supposed to feel sorry for them, but I'm not going to.

They can fuck the shit out of a fleshlight tho.

Just taking this opportunity to highlight one of the big reasons the "progressive" left is losing popularity FAST.

They fight dirty. Honesty and facts mean nothing, only the end goal of winning for progressivism.

If they don't have a logical, factual argument to take down an opponent's point, they act like this - hurling baseless insults as much as possible in hopes of discrediting their opponent so the point they made will be ignored.
After all, who would want to agree with me if I was actually a sexist, racist, misogynistic, scumlord who can't please a woman so I need a fleshlight.... right?

Progressives are the ones who will get people fired if they feel offended by something; even if it was innocuous as a glance their way, or a barely-innuendo joke about computer dongles.

Thanks for making your methodology so crystal clear.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
You're just willingly embracing a definition that suits your biases and if you were as intelligent as you feel you are, you would understand that. You're just as guilty of group think because the end result of your critical thinking always takes you to the same place. That being that your tribe is the best tribe.

Communists, understanding that the label that defined their ideology had turned negative "reinvented" themselves with a new label. That label was 'Progressive'. Same ideology, different label. Some people like to used the term 'Socialist' feeling that it better describes themselves but they are all variants of the same ideology and an ideology that has failed with every iteration. Venezuela would be the most recent example.

But, fear not. With the massive failure of the progressive movement under eight years of President Obama, these same people will once again reinvent themselves and come up with a new word to label their movement. Communist didn't work. Progressive didn't work. Socialist didn't work. Perhaps this new label will be one you will embrace in an unthinking fashion. We'll stand by to find out.
Sorry but people like me don't want your planet of the apes.
Here's the Merriam Webster definition for this term.
1
progressive
play
adjective pro·gres·sive \prə-ˈgre-siv\
Popularity: Top 40% of words
Examples: progressive in a sentence
Definition of progressive
  1. 1 a : of, relating to, or characterized by progressb : making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunitiesc : of, relating to, or constituting an educational theory marked by emphasis on the individual child, informality of classroom procedure, and encouragement of self-expression

  2. 2 : of, relating to, or characterized by progression

  3. 3 : moving forward or onward : advancing

  4. 4 a : increasing in extent or severity <a progressive disease>b : increasing in rate as the base increases <a progressive tax>

  5. 5 often capitalized : of or relating to political Progressives

  6. 6 : of, relating to, or constituting a verb form that expresses action or state in progress at the time of speaking or a time spoken of

  7. 7 : of, relating to, or being a multifocal lens with a gradual transition between focal lengths <progressive bifocals>

  8. 8 : or, relating to, or using a method of video scanning (as for television or a computer monitor) in which the horizontal lines of each frame are drawn successively from top to bottom — compare interlaced
progressively
adverb
progressiveness
noun
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,593
7,653
136
The dictionary?
Try the Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC).
Which, I'm in general agreement with a sizable portion.

The Progressive Promise

Fairness For All

The Congressional Progressive Caucus believes in government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Our fairness plan is rooted in our core principles. It also embodies national priorities that are consistent with the values, needs, and hopes of all our people, not just the powerful and the privileged. We pledge our unwavering commitment to these legislative priorities and we will not rest until they become law.

1. Fighting for Economic Justice and Security in the U.S. and Global Economies

» To uphold the right to universal access to affordable, high quality healthcare for all.

» To preserve guaranteed Social Security benefits for all Americans, protect private pensions, and require corporate accountability.

» To invest in America and create new jobs in the U.S. by building more affordable housing, re-building America’s schools and physical infrastructure, cleaning up our environment, and improving homeland security.

» To export more American products and not more American jobs and demand fair trade.

» To reaffirm freedom of association and enforce the right to organize.

» To ensure working families can live above the poverty line and with dignity by raising and indexing the minimum wage.​

2. Protecting and Preserving Civil Rights and Civil Liberties

» To sunset expiring provisions of the Patriot Act and bring remaining provisions into line with the U. S. Constitution.

» To protect the personal privacy of all Americans from unbridled police powers and unchecked government intrusion.

» To extend the Voting Rights Act and reform our electoral processes.

» To fight corporate consolidation of the media and ensure opportunity for all voices to be heard.

» To ensure enforcement of all legal rights in the workplace.

» To eliminate all forms of discrimination based upon color, race, religion, gender, creed, disability, or sexual orientation.​

3. Promoting Global Peace and Security

» To honor and help our overburdened international public servants – both military and civilian.

» To bring U. S. troops home from Iraq as soon as possible.

» To re-build U.S. alliances around the world, restore international respect for American power and influence, and reaffirm our nation’s constructive engagement in the United Nations and other multilateral organizations.

» To enhance international cooperation to reduce the threats posed by nuclear proliferation and weapons of mass destruction.

» To increase efforts to combat hunger and the scourge of HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, and other infectious diseases.

» To encourage debt relief for poor countries and support efforts to reach the UN’s Millennium Goals for Developing Countries.​

4. Advancing Environmental Protection & Energy Independence

» To free ourselves and our economy from dependence upon imported oil and shift to growing reliance upon renewable energy supplies and technologies, thus creating at least three million new jobs, cleansing our environment, and enhancing our nation’s security.

» To promote environmental justice in affirmation that all people have an inherent right to a healthy environment, clean air, and clean water wherever we live, work, and relax.

» To change incentives in federal tax, procurement, and appropriation policies to:​

(A) Speed commercialization of solar, biomass, and wind power generation, while encouraging state and local policy innovation to link clean energy and job creation;

(B) Convert domestic assembly lines to manufacture highly efficient vehicles, enhance global competitiveness of U.S. auto industry, and expand consumer choice;

(C) Increase investment in construction of “green buildings” and more energy-efficient homes and workplaces;

(D) Link higher energy efficiency standards in appliances to consumer and manufacturing incentives that increase demand for new durable goods and increase investment in U.S. factories;​

» To eliminate environmental threat posed by global warming and ensuring that America does our part to advance an effective global problem-solving approach.

» To expand energy-efficient transportation choices by increasing investment in synthesized networks, including bicycle, local bus and rail transit, regional high-speed rail and magnetic levitation rail projects.

» To preserve prudent public interest regulations that encourage sustainable growth and investment, ensure energy diversity and system reliability, protect workers and the environment, reward consumer conservation, and support an expanding marketplace that rewards the commercialization of energy-efficient technologies.​

Where's the charter and principles of the "Alt-right", if there's even such a level of organization?
Someone wants to claim Trump's election demonstrates the "majority" of Americans believe in something under that label.
But what is that something - exactly?

I'll give you a hint... an overwhelming super majority of Americans probably NEVER heard of "Alt-Right" until the media promoted it.
Let alone support a vague label of undefined charter or principles.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,048
4,807
136
Meaning is everything and some people don't seem to have a solid enough grasp of the English language. The right paints progressives as the new boogieman when in fact they are anything but. Men calling good bad and bad good is a certain sign that Christians are supposed to be looking for and well here we are (Isaiah 5::20; 2 Timothy 3:1-5).
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Might want to get more specific by what you mean with "alt-right".

The "progressive" crowd here (and pretty much everywhere) will label anyone not as bury-the-needle-Left as themselves as "alt-right" (or just "white supremacists" etc.) even if they're also liberal / left in reality.

I'm pretty specific in the post unless you didn't bother reading it and went just by the title.
 
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