Let's talk NBA

[dougp]

So intentional fouls at the end of the game should be flagrant fouls too then? They aren't plays for the ball, and they often involve completely wrapping the ball carrier up.

At this point, HF is just trolling, there's no way he can believe those wrapping fouls are flagrant.

 

[HendrixFan]

So intentional fouls at the end of the game should be flagrant fouls too then? They aren't plays for the ball, and they often involve completely wrapping the ball carrier up.

At the end of games they try to steal and/or make contact while doing so. They swipe at the ball to get a deflection or a steal. I've watched 200+ games this year, I see it all the time. I haven't seen any player wrap someone up and take them to the floor at the end of a game.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

You just described a form tackle. Are you aware of that, or are you being cognitively dissonant right now? You really support tackling players on a fast break? That is something you wish to see in basketball?

In no way was that a tackle. If you gave Hinrich a full head of steam and he rushed James, he'd bounce off. James, a man who outweighs Hinrich by 70 pounds, rushes him with a full head of steam and drops his shoulder into his gut as he gets wrapped up? Who is tackling who? I've seen the clip dozens of times, and Hinrich gets tossed like a ragdoll. He's not "tackling" LeBron, he's attempting to wrap up a freight train.

 

[Vdubchaos]

You just described a form tackle. Are you aware of that, or are you being cognitively dissonant right now? You really support tackling players on a fast break? That is something you wish to see in basketball?

Ever heard of "hack a Shaq"?

This is NOTHING new.

It's simple, when player goes in for easy hoop you do whatever it takes to prevent him from scoring, if it means a foul.

Heck, sometimes when I watch these games it blows my mind how many Centers/Forward stand around and watch people drive in and dunk/lay up.

Get that shit out of there, don't stand there and watch.

 

[Red Storm]

At the end of games they try to steal and/or make contact while doing so. They swipe at the ball to get a deflection or a steal. I've watched 200+ games this year, I see it all the time. I haven't seen any player wrap someone up and take them to the floor at the end of a game.

You really think Kirk Hinrich took Lebron to the floor? He wrapped him up to minimize the blow of the hit and to keep Lebron from leaping, the fall was because of momentum. Come on man, take off the Miami shades.

 

[HendrixFan]

In no way was that a tackle. If you gave Hinrich a full head of steam and he rushed James, he'd bounce off. James, a man who outweighs Hinrich by 70 pounds, rushes him with a full head of steam and drops his shoulder into his gut as he gets wrapped up? Who is tackling who? I've seen the clip dozens of times, and Hinrich gets tossed like a ragdoll. He's not "tackling" LeBron, he's attempting to wrap up a freight train.

Wrapping up a player going full speed on a fast break is dangerous. That shit don't fly when you street ball, and for good reason. The ~100lb difference, the speed and direction of the play made sure Hinrich would crash to the ground. Hinrich's "attempting to wrap up a freight train" in that situation would have never achieved anything besides taking Lebron to the ground. I'm sorry, you can't not tackle someone when you wrap them up at that speed.

You can certainly argue that it was a bang-bang play and Hinrich didn't fully anticipate what followed. That is where a flagrant foul being assessed works to discourage future occurrences. The NBA is a wonderful free flowing sporting event played above the rim. Allow this crap to go and we may as well watch women's high school hoops. I for one, don't want that.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Wrapping up a player going full speed on a fast break is dangerous. That shit don't fly when you street ball, and for good reason. The ~100lb difference, the speed and direction of the play made sure Hinrich would crash to the ground. Hinrich's "attempting to wrap up a freight train" in that situation would have never achieved anything besides taking Lebron to the ground. I'm sorry, you can't not tackle someone when you wrap them up at that speed.

You can certainly argue that it was a bang-bang play and Hinrich didn't fully anticipate what followed. That is where a flagrant foul being assessed works to discourage future occurrences. The NBA is a wonderful free flowing sporting event played above the rim. Allow this crap to go and we may as well watch women's high school hoops. I for one, don't want that.

No, I contend that both players did exactly the right thing as taught by every basketball coach on the planet. The offensive player forces the issue, going right into the chest of the defender to force contact and attempt to put up a shot attempt and, at the very least, get to the line. The defender wraps the offensive player up and makes absolutely sure their arms can't guide the basketball in the direction of the basket; you take the foul, but you don't give up a three point play or easy lay-up. It just so happens that when the most athletic player in the history of the sport has all his momentum behind him against an undersized defender, the perfect execution by both players is going to have momentum take them both to the floor. That's good basketball. There's nothing dirty about it.

 

[IAteYourMother]

You really think Kirk Hinrich took Lebron to the floor? He wrapped him up to minimize the blow of the hit and to keep Lebron from leaping, the fall was because of momentum. Come on man, take off the Miami shades.

It's really not hard to take someone down when it's not an adversarial situation. In other words, LeBron is going for the basket, not for Hinrich, so it's easier to take him out.

 

[Red Storm]

It's really not hard to take someone down when it's not an adversarial situation. In other words, LeBron is going for the basket, not for Hinrich, so it's easier to take him out.

Lebron went straight into Hinrich. As Atomic said there's no foul play here, both players made the right move.

 

[dougp]

If the Heat are not fined by Stern, that is the biggest bullshit.

 

[neegotiator]

LOL at Popovich's reaction

 

[Jeeebus]

If the Heat are not fined by Stern, that is the biggest bullshit.

why fine them? They're... uhhh... injured. Ya... injured. I just hope they can get better by the next game.

It's worth the fine for returning the favor with a big 'fuck you' to the Spurs.

 

[DesiPower]

embarrassing loss...

 

[dbk]

bad loss and a horrible foul call on Kawhi when he pulled the chair out under Cole

 

[QueBert]

I'm at work so I was unable to watch the game, but if the Spurs get beat by a Heat with their 2 best players resting.

Yeah nobody's beating them in the finals.

 

[HendrixFan]

People forget how good Bosh is, and how high up the free agent ladder he was a few years back. He takes a backseat to Wade and Lebron and that has a big impact on his numbers. When given the opportunity he can be a 25-12 guy every night.

 

[QueBert]

People forget how good Bosh is, and how high up the free agent ladder he was a few years back. He takes a backseat to Wade and Lebron and that has a big impact on his numbers. When given the opportunity he can be a 25-12 guy every night.

Bosh is sick, but even with James & Wade in San Antonio should be a tough game. For the clearly best team in the west to get beat by the players they did today is damn crazy. Bosh imho could be the star on many other teams, and 2nd best at worst. But he's stuck with wade & james so you're right people don't give him the props he deserves.

 

[HendrixFan]

The Spurs run a good system but with Ginobili sidelined they don't have the firepower they need. The Heat have a great collection of role players, and surrounding Bosh with that talent is better than people realize. Bosh and those role players knocked down a good amount of threes, SA struggled beyond the arc. I think most nights given the lineups SA would win. But in basketball sometimes shots just go in, other times they don't.

There was a little blurb of news that didn't run around much a couple weeks back when Bosh told a reporter he thought he was a future HoFer. It is no small thing to sacrifice numbers and touches, along with a chunk of cash, in order to compete for a championship.

He gets hammered for not getting enough boards and being the biggest reason the Heat suck at rebounding this year. He plays 15-20 ft from the basket on offense to open the lane for Lebron and Wade. Opposing bigs either let him shoot uncontested jumpers and watch him knock them down better than any big in the game right now because they sink to help, or wing guys rotate down instead, which just opens up Battier, Allen, Chalmers and Lewis for open threes.

The super efficient Heat offense we have seen this year certainly needs Lebron as its centerpiece, but any other big in the place of Bosh clogs things up. That also means he is nowhere near being in position for offensive boards. It is a design that chooses hyper efficient shots over rebounds.

On defense his footspeed allows him to hedge and switch on the PNR where other bigs would struggle. Having Battier or Lebron be able to rotate down to his man often exposes them to rebounding deficiencies on the defensive end of the floor too. The Heat play better "on a string" on defense than anyone, and their interchangeable parts along with their commitment to rotation loses rebounding battles. Again it is a calculated risk as they keep opposing FG % down and force a ton of turnovers.

What Bosh does is integral to their success, but unlike Lebron or Wade, he sacrifices the most and takes the most blame for any supposed deficiency.

All in all, it is nice to see him carry the load like this from time to time. Just to remind people, "oh right, he is one of the best bigs in the game".

 

[dougp]

bad loss and a horrible foul call on Kawhi when he pulled the chair out under Cole

There were a few questionable calls, but that one was ridiculous. The efficient Spurs offense didn't show up tonight.

As for anyone who wants to talk about LeBron and Wade being out tonight - don't forget that the Spurs didn't have Ginobili, Parker, Duncan, Green, Leonard & Jackson the night the bench took the Heat and almost won. I'll put Bosh on the 3-point line any day, but there was a missed rotation on that play and Duncan either had to swing out on Bosh or cover Haslem - Haslem would have been a guaranteed 2 vs. taking the chance on Bosh and his 3.

Oh well, Spurs played like ass - whether they have Manu or not, they're not winning shit if they pass up open shots.

 

[fustercluck]

Really surprised they beat the Spurs without lebron/wade. Also surprised that both teams' records are nearly the same despite miami winning 27 in a row.

 

[preslove]

Heat shots were dropping like crazy, at least for the 30 minutes I saw while doing cardio at the gym. That doesn't happen most games.

After that insane 27 game run, resting people makes sense. I wonder if Bosh will come down with a sore tendon once Lebron comes back... lol

 

[DesiPower]

Spurs loss was really crazy with 3 of Heat's main players sitting, although, it might be possible that they practiced hard to play James and Wade and with them missing they they kinda played an entirely new team they were not prepared for. I have seen this happen when Spurs sits their big three and the bench pulls an upset.

Anywho, excuses aside, it was scary. One key point was Parker, they were able to totally shut him off and with Manu not available the ball movement was very limited... Also Spurs are not doing that well lately, all the games have been low scoring and close. Hopefully they comeback before playoffs.

Officials did a good job for the most part except for one instance, but that did not definitely did not decide the game, Spurs pretty much sucked, lacked coordination, the well oiled Spurs machine was missing...

 

[Gibsons]

I guess this is appropriate here.

 

[Red Storm]

I guess this is appropriate here.

I don't get it?

 

[Gibsons]

I don't get it?

Just a quirky pass, that's all.

Maybe this is better