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Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
Harden is going to need that fat contract to pay for flopping fines. Martin is a solid shooter when he isn't injured. And it's not like OKC is losing a defensive player in the deal.

OKC's issue is passing the ball. Operation Russel attack the basket, pull up for a jumper on a break, or ISO Durant didn't cut it against Miami. They have to make a serious commitment to swinging the ball around, getting players open and stretching defenses. And on the defensive side, the further maturing/development of Ibaka is critical. Same with Durant and his lazy reach around defense.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Harden is going to need that fat contract to pay for flopping fines. Martin is a solid shooter when he isn't injured. And it's not like OKC is losing a defensive player in the deal.

OKC's issue is passing the ball. Operation Russel attack the basket, pull up for a jumper on a break, or ISO Durant didn't cut it against Miami. They have to make a serious commitment to swinging the ball around, getting players open and stretching defenses. And on the defensive side, the further maturing/development of Ibaka is critical. Same with Durant and his lazy reach around defense.

Adding Martin to your rotation is the equivalent of losing a defensive player.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
OKC's issue is passing the ball. Operation Russel attack the basket, pull up for a jumper on a break, or ISO Durant didn't cut it against Miami. They have to make a serious commitment to swinging the ball around, getting players open and stretching defenses. And on the defensive side, the further maturing/development of Ibaka is critical. Same with Durant and his lazy reach around defense.

Without Harden they're going to have trouble stretching defenses out no matter how well they pass. I'll let Perkins, Sefolosha, Ibaka etc. take wide open threes all game.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,909
4
0
Good for Harden getting that extension. He was already sacrificing minutes, shots, etc. and for OKC (who have been making quite the profit the last few years) to play the money card was just disrespectful to their fans. Sam Presti has done an amazing job thus far, but this was a bad move.



However, there is an important distinction to make. Harden didn't come off the bench because he was the team's 6th best player. He was their third best, they brought him off the bench by design. I wonder how many of those guys on that list were their team's clear third best player (after two top 20 players)?


Let's get something straight - Harden was not sacrificing any minutes for the Thunder. He played over 31 minutes a game, which was the third highest on the team - where is the sacrifice there? And yes, he's going to give up shots to a players like Durant and Westbrook, but he does take advantage by having a high shooting percentage. People typically don't realize it, but OKC is largely based on the Spurs philosophy and structure, which is why Harden was compared to Manu so much during the series. You ask how many were the team's clear third best player in the list?

2010–11 Lamar Odom
2009–10 Jamal Crawford
2008–09 Jason Terry
2007–08 Manu Ginóbili
2004–05 Ben Gordon

And there's some more going back, but those are the more recent ones.

This move was great because the Thunder add an expiring contract in Kevin Martin, who can still produce as well as a good rookie in Lamb and future picks. I said it last year, and people argued with me about Harden not being on the team, but I was right. This was the best way for Oklahoma to get value out of the situation.

OKC's issue is passing the ball. Operation Russel attack the basket, pull up for a jumper on a break, or ISO Durant didn't cut it against Miami. They have to make a serious commitment to swinging the ball around, getting players open and stretching defenses. And on the defensive side, the further maturing/development of Ibaka is critical. Same with Durant and his lazy reach around defense.

So true, and it was how they beat San Antonio - the passing was great. For some reason, they decided not to carry it with them into the Finals which probably has more to do with maturity and their consistancy, which Westbrook is ALWAYS bashed for.

Adding Martin to your rotation is the equivalent of losing a defensive player.


Harden is not a stopper - the reason he did well is because he flopped well. He's like a small version of Varejao!

Without Harden they're going to have trouble stretching defenses out no matter how well they pass. I'll let Perkins, Sefolosha, Ibaka etc. take wide open threes all game.

Spurs did this one game in the WCF and it bit them in the ass. Just sayin'.
 

tygeezy

Senior member
Aug 28, 2012
300
14
81
Andy is big time, 23 rebounds and 9 assists last night. People underestimate his skills, but the guy is a rebounding machine, and in my opinion the best pick and roll defensive big in the nba.
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,909
4
0
Game 4. I think I'll take my chances that Ibaka and Perkins won't go a combined 18 for 20 again.

That's really all it takes in the playoffs - 1 game can really change a lot of things. Momentum in basketball is very important.
 

tygeezy

Senior member
Aug 28, 2012
300
14
81
Harden looking good early. First quarter he is 3 of 6 from the field with 4 assists.
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,646
0
71
Im not too worried.. yet. When the Heat first came together, their first half of the season was miserable until they figured out how to work together. The Lakers have an entire new offense and basically almost all new players. Im more understanding, the LA fan base isnt though. LA is championship or nothing.

The Heat ran off 21 of 22 games or something like that in the first half of the season with the big three.

The four pieces of the Lakers *can* fit together. Just because they can doesn't mean they will. It will require Howard to be more aggressive on the offensive end and Kobe to defer more to Nash. I don't really see either of those two happening, at least not with regularity.
 

hdeck

Lifer
Sep 26, 2002
14,530
1
0
if only it were possible to watch rockets games in houston...maybe one day...
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,909
4
0
if only it were possible to watch rockets games in houston...maybe one day...

Because of the CSN thing? I didn't try to find it, but the Spurs were on NBATV and I got to see updates. That really sucks if that's the case.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
My Blazers are killing it right now. Holy cow. I had very low expectations for this game, despite LA's poor record when playing in Portland and the Blazers tendency to win home openers... but golly, am I ever impressed by this. I hope they can keep this up for more than one game.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
100
91

Uncle Drew got game.


Harden goes from 6th man, to starter, to signing an $80m max contract, to leading the league in scoring, in less than a week!

If he plays the season at an allstar level and Houston exceeds expectations, then I'd conceed Houston made a good move. Consistency is everything for a "cornerstone" player. We'll see, but that's an awesome 1st game.
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,685
10
81
TP!!!!!!

Westbrook left him to go for a steal? Nobody was covering him.. lol
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,563
9,927
146
Lollers @ ticket price disparity:

 
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