LG Home Theater 1000W Total RMS/ Speakers at 3 ohm's/ Weak Subwoofer

[blurecentrel]

Hi guys...

Got myself a new LG Home Theater 5.1 (LG LHB645N) 1000W Total Power RMS - this might be the peak power, as anyway i haven't found a true advert on any of the brands - not sure where to search for output power RMS (program) rating. Speakers are individually rated at 167W RMS each + 167W RMS passive subwoofer - this also might be the peak power of them.
link: LG LHB645N 1000W RMS

Hooked everything up, sound is really good, but i am sceptic about the subwoofer. It's a 6inch speaker passive in a small wooden box. Much smaller than my previous system from which i am switching. It has a power of 167W RMS and still sounds decent, good bass. But i am still not agree with this small woofer in the small box and low RMS.

I am coming from my Philips FWM608/12 HiFi System, that has served me for about 9 years without a problem, still work's perfect, it's rated at 600W RMS Total Power with dual amplification and an 8 inch subwoofer in a much bigger and wider wooden box that shakes my whole house while playing some heavy bass, dubstep etc. Bass is much cleaner and clear, deep. For an almost 10 years old system sounds amazing, but only 2.1. Also speakers and subwoofer working at 3 ohm's, same as my new system.
Link: Philips FWM608/12 600w RMS

What you suggest me to do?
To keep the new system? To return it? Or to improve it's subwwofer by fitting a more powerfull one: lets say 200W RMS at 3 ohm's, or to fit my old subwoofer that gives much deep bass. Will that even work ok without burning the receiver or damaging it? Is that even possible?

This is one subwoofer i have found that i might want to use witht th LG system: Pioneer 240W RMS Subwoofer [link to Ebay deleted]
Or why not to just start to built one system from begining with an AV Receiver. Will probably be the best option and will get more powerfull and quality sound.

Need this advice please.


Ebay link removed. Link to the
manufacturer's website instead.

AT Mod Usandthem

 

[SamirD]

Those all in one units are really designed to work together and not be changed or you could damage it.

I'd audition your new system with your old one and see which you like better on a variety of sound. Keep the one you like.

 

[blurecentrel]

Thanks for your unswer.
Basically i am after something even older models if you know any, with plenty of power and efficiency. As basically i know that the newer system's will not bring much more new things as speakers has not improved so much in last decade. So even a 10 years old system or 5.1 will probably perform even better then a newer version from 2019.
Do you know any older models better that what i have choosed?

Paid £300 for new LG one week ago
Paid £380 for Philips many years ago (huge amount for that time)
I can pay lets say £60-£100 for SH older version, that will perform better then the new LG i have in test at the moment

 

[SamirD]

Used audio products if top of the line will bring tremendous value. Except that every audiophile knows about these and that might keep the price a bit high.

I've actually noticed a lot of improvement in sound quality capability over the last 20 years. Speakers can be made to sound great with a lot less than was needed before. That being said, going after a flat reference sound like I like is harder to find than ever.

I never knew what 5.1 systems were good since I couldn't afford them and never looked at them. I know the one time I did, I was looking at THX 7.1 systems, but I don't know if THX even is what it used to be as so much has changed.

 

[blurecentrel]

Would you be able to tell me if what i am going to do is a wise decision?
Found this AC Receiver (JVC RX-Dp20)


Found it for £120 used in great working conditions with 6 months warranty. Got to find next good quality speakers, surround speakers and center speaker and probably will fit 2 subwoofers on it as i have also found some Pioneer 250w RMS subwoofers from used Home Theaters, they are selling them on well known auction sites for about £35/piece.
Will this be much better then my actual LG system which claims to get 1000W RMS? Actually the 1000W RMS i am sure it's the peak power, so the actual power per speaker is way less than what it's stated.
I really think that the used stuff will produce much better and quality sound performance than new system.
Can you or anyone else who know better about this confirm it?

 

[mdram]

i would return it
and do an avr, and speakers
take your time, build it out the way you want it
it will sound much better

avsforums can be a big help

 

[Arkaign]

Would you be able to tell me if what i am going to do is a wise decision?
Found this AC Receiver (JVC RX-Dp20)


Found it for £120 used in great working conditions with 6 months warranty. Got to find next good quality speakers, surround speakers and center speaker and probably will fit 2 subwoofers on it as i have also found some Pioneer 250w RMS subwoofers from used Home Theaters, they are selling them on well known auction sites for about £35/piece.
Will this be much better then my actual LG system which claims to get 1000W RMS? Actually the 1000W RMS i am sure it's the peak power, so the actual power per speaker is way less than what it's stated.
I really think that the used stuff will produce much better and quality sound performance than new system.
Can you or anyone else who know better about this confirm it?

Haha yeah, the "1000w" is pretty deceptive here, but it's a war of numbers for these HTIB things (as well as the soundbars). As they're not audiophile devices, but rather trying to get the attention of retail shoppers.

Going individual components and even mixing and matching speaker brands is more than fine, it can make for an exceptional home audio setup, with a ton more future flexibility as it's all standard stuff. I recommend scouring secondhand shops, online user to user sales (not sure what is used in the UK), etc.

Start with a good receiver, and two solid speakers. If you want to watch movies on it, the next most important thing is a GOOD center channel. If music is more important, then the next thing would be sub.

Basically for priorities :

Home Theatre :

Receiver > Mains > Center > Sub > Rear/etc

Music :

Receiver > Mains > Sub > Rears > Center (or if set to pure stereo, just mains and sub)

 

[blurecentrel]

Thank you for your advice.
I can say one thing, that i am not an expert into Audio World, so that's why i am kind of struggling with any purchases. Not sure what exatly to look after when checking some Audio items.

I've found so many AV Receiveres (JBL, Denon, Pioneer) etc for cheap (£40-£80) SH ones, they might be older versions like even from 2008-2016.

Still not sure what to choose as when i search for them i got stopped at this wall: what i should look after when searching? RMS/channel? THD %? Impedance output? Outputs? Brand?

Kind of need something that gives good strong and deep bass also to be able for a 5.1 - 7.1 setup.

Will need to fit this downstairs at my house in living room which is not a huge one, so arround: (4m Width x 6.5m Lengh), with fireplace chimney in middle, 65inch TV on top of it, sofa sits 2m away in front of the chimney and TV.

AV Receivers found:
1. DENON AVR-1508
2. Onkyo TX-SR606
3. Sony STR-DE475
4. Denon AVR-1911 (7.1)
5. Denon AVR-3802 (7.1)
6. Denon AVR-2805 (7.1) - Seller agreed offer for £50 posted, immaculate conditions. Any thoughts?

At least the receivers above are much better then what i got from the new LG system. True?

 

[Arkaign]

Yes, any competent AVR will be worlds beyond the HTIBs. Don't worry about the AVR in terms of bass, with an AVR you will be pairing with a self powered sub connected by an RCA cable.

For convenience you may want to get a model with HDMI. Proper 4k HDR passthrough is relatively recent, but if you're ok with 1080p those are dirt cheap for terrific sounding models. What some people do with 4k TVs is to either use optical out from the TV (sounds wonderful, but can be limited in surround spec due to bandwidth limits) or to use an HDMI splitter from source (PS4/BD player/etc) to splitter, then one cable to TV, one cable to receiver.

Modern receivers will also have ARC, which lets you get sound back to the AVR from the display. Useful if you have a smart TV, or want zero added processing delay for gaming etc.

In a way, this kind of thing makes it potentially best to pair a new or very recent AVR with used market sub and speakers. That way you have all the modern convenient features, but can save huge on the used speakers.

 

[blurecentrel]

Yes, any competent AVR will be worlds beyond the HTIBs. Don't worry about the AVR in terms of bass, with an AVR you will be pairing with a self powered sub connected by an RCA cable.

For convenience you may want to get a model with HDMI. Proper 4k HDR passthrough is relatively recent, but if you're ok with 1080p those are dirt cheap for terrific sounding models. What some people do with 4k TVs is to either use optical out from the TV (sounds wonderful, but can be limited in surround spec due to bandwidth limits) or to use an HDMI splitter from source (PS4/BD player/etc) to splitter, then one cable to TV, one cable to receiver.

Modern receivers will also have ARC, which lets you get sound back to the AVR from the display. Useful if you have a smart TV, or want zero added processing delay for gaming etc.

In a way, this kind of thing makes it potentially best to pair a new or very recent AVR with used market sub and speakers. That way you have all the modern convenient features, but can save huge on the used speakers.

Completely understand you, but the HDMI models is rated at more or double price.
Got my 65inch TV and yes sometimes i am watching 4k HDR movies, also playing games (most in FullHD some in 4k) will lack of HDMI compromise the quality of the sound really bad? Any options to get a HDMI to Component adapter to sort this thing out?

I am in between this to choose now, give me an unswer which is better and why, no HDMI on both:
Got to say after checking the specs, found that 3802 has more flexible output inpedance/channel than 2805. But i let you, the experts to come with unswers.

1. Denon AVR-3802 7.1 (£80) - Specs
vs
2. Denon AVR-2805 7.1 (£40) - Specs

 

[Arkaign]

Lack of HDMI means taking optical out from your BD/PS to the receiver, or to take it out front the TV via optical out to the receiver. It can make getting 5.1 working fairly annoying, as modern surround encoding is too much data for 5.1 via optical, so it will often simply default to stereo. Either way it will sound fantastic, but it can be annoying to not get full surround.

 

[blurecentrel]

Well then i will try to see what i will be able to find with HDMI inputs and outputs. Confused by the models of this Denon as there's so many models, anyway i think they are really good receivers.

 

[blurecentrel]

Lack of HDMI means taking optical out from your BD/PS to the receiver, or to take it out front the TV via optical out to the receiver. It can make getting 5.1 working fairly annoying, as modern surround encoding is too much data for 5.1 via optical, so it will often simply default to stereo. Either way it will sound fantastic, but it can be annoying to not get full surround.

Lets say my receiver will be like this:
Denon Receiver (110W RMS/channel at 8ohm's & 135W RMS/channel at 6ohm's)
+ Mordaunt Short Alumni 9 Active Subwoofer (this will have his own power so will be on his own, nothing to do with Receiver's output power)

I will be able to fit lets say a 5.1 or 7.1 speakers setup with lower RMS output power per speaker?
Found some (JVL or Panasonic) 6ohm's speakers with average 60w-90w RMS.

If there's nothing writed about the Peak RMS Power and it's just writed on them lets say 70W RMS, does this mean this is the Peak Power and the actual RMS is lower. correct?
I am confused about how the power is writed on speakers.

Will this be ok? Will this do any harm to the amp or amp to speakers?
Need to know the solution for this, or do i need to get the same RMS power as the receiver offers per channel?

Regards

 

[Arkaign]

No, feel free to mix and match. I have for example 250W fronts, 120W center, 150W rears, 150W sides, 100W front highs.

 

[blurecentrel]

No, feel free to mix and match. I have for example 250W fronts, 120W center, 150W rears, 150W sides, 100W front highs.

But this will not be affected by the higher amp power? Basically if my amp output power is rated to 135W for 6ohm's, speakers i have found have writed on back of them 80W. How this will sound on high volume?
Or it's better to have higher amp then the speakers with condition not to exeed the db levels on them ???

 

[Arkaign]

You will be able to adjust the levels. At the kind of power level we're talking about here, it will get painfully loud well before you run any risk of damaging speakers.

 

[blurecentrel]

Great advice Arkaign.

Will you think the front speakers shouls be (bookshelf or floor standing) speakers with peak power close to the amp output power and will be better then the small square home cinema sattelites, yes? As basically i've got the power so no point to fit some sattelites to receiver.
As for the center, rear and surround speakers what should i search for? Small sattelites or normal speakers with bigger 4 inch - 6 inch speakers etc.

 

[Arkaign]

Great advice Arkaign.

Will you think the front speakers shouls be (bookshelf or floor standing) speakers with peak power close to the amp output power and will be better then the small square home cinema sattelites, yes? As basically i've got the power so no point to fit some sattelites to receiver.
As for the center, rear and surround speakers what should i search for? Small sattelites or normal speakers with bigger 4 inch - 6 inch speakers etc.

I'll reply back in greater detail when I get to an actual PC I can post links easily from, but as you sound like you intend this to be movies/HD surround media/TV and streaming 5.1, I can say this :

The quality of your sub and center will make the most impact. When you run a working 5.1/7.1/etc setup, the center becomes incredibly important for dialogue clarity, so it doesn't get washed out by the rest of your setup. It's criminally overlooked in many setups, but is worth investing in for sure. Sub is self explanatory, makes the impact of action and music much better.

Please note, as long as you can physically fit it, you are NOT limited to running a center channel speaker designed for the purpose. Oftentimes the best value on a used speaker may be from a situation where one of a pair was damaged/lost, and the remaining speaker is sold cheap as a lone unit. A high quality bookshelf for example makes for a brilliant center channel option. That said, aesthetically, the typical horizontal rectangle style is often far easier to fit into your environment/furniture depending on your setup.

For rears, as the AVR crossover and 5.1 audio distribution won't be sending low frequency in that direction, I find that solid 80-120W range bookshelf style units are excellent. Massive upgrade over the typical cubes, and easy to maneuver and situate how you see fit. Bigger is okay, as long as you have the juice for it, but be aware that there is rapidly diminished returns for those channels, as the vast majority of sounds sent back in 5.1 recordings are more ambient/environmental. Going way overboard with speaker size back there can backfire as the most powerful speakers take more wattage to put out a desired volume level. Simple physics : bigger magnet/more resistance to move the speaker cone to generate sound. So, bookshelf to medium size is the way to go there with your decent AVR.

Mains you might be surprised. Although it's very nice to have some floorstanding monsters, you can absolutely get away with a well made set of bookshelf type if you find a bargain, and give yourself time to wait for that one killer deal on some floorstanders to come through. That way you can get your setup up and running for a good price, and upgrade along the way as you see fit. I find that deals on used speakers can vary wildly. It is VERY difficult to go out with a very specific make/model/size/price in mind and expect to find it immediately. Rather, you may be better off compromising a bit here and there with placeholder options of the best value you see at the time, then replacing with more ideal units as you go.

The great thing is that reselling the upgraded components as you go will net you a return, and potentially even profits should you have gotten a particularly good deal in the first place on something. I had bought some Bowers & Wilkins towers at an estate sale for $100, had stains on the wood, they just wanted them out of there. I wasn't aware at the time, but they turned out to be worth 10x that price. I refinished the cabinets, enjoyed them for a time, and resold them after finding some monitor audio silvers that I felt matched my setup better.

 

[blurecentrel]

Woow... superb description.

The units i am purchasing are:

1. Denon AVR-4306

2. Wharfedale Diamond SW150 Active Subwoofer

3. Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Speakers (probably 4 of them for fronts and rears/surround)

4. Still thinking what to choose for the center speaker.

This all for a 5.1 setup

What do you think about this decision?

 

[Arkaign]

That's going to be an excellent starting point.

 

[blurecentrel]

That's going to be an excellent starting point.

What about TruHD and DTS X or Atmos audio from 4k content or movies?
The Denon model i have purchased does not have that decoders, still has got HDMI inputs and outputs.
How i will be able to get that with this setup?

Also what gauge wires should i use?
&
Does that Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 Speakers (2 for fronts and 2 for rears) will be ok?
I mean fronts ok, but rears? Will this bigger speakers make any difference then the small sattelite cubes found on all-in-one Home Theatre systems?
When this rear surround speakers comes into action? (movies or music)
Can i set them up also to produce audio, not just the special effects/sounds from time to time in a movie?
Don't want to have them hooked to the system and basically just to get from time to time special effects from them.

 

[Arkaign]

The receiver will have an option for 5CH Stereo or something extremely similar, great for music, that is how to get the center + surrounds involved in 2CH mixes and general music.

As for the fancier recent HD audio standards, the simple answer is that is why people sell their old receivers much of the time. It's not something you can reasonably generate in any other for a HT setup. If you want 4K passthrough, ARC, Atmos, etc, it means getting a receiver with those features.

The good news is that a lot of that is mostly surround accuracy for people that have 7 and beyond setups. A good 5.1 rig sounds 95% as good anyway even with similar speakers, and an older one with better speakers will blow the doors off say a Atmos Cube HTIB type setup. It's all relative. The sky is the limit, I've seen Mark Cuban's theatre, and one of his monoblocks probably costs nearly what I have in my entire rig lol. But if you want Atmos, 4k, HDR, etc, gotta buy the AVR to do such. The only thing that's relatively cheap and easy to add to an old AVR is Bluetooth. They sell receivers for $20-$30 that can mate with your phone/etc, and connect via stereo RCA jacks or optical to your AVR.

If you want a cheap way to start out, just get a nice affordable old model and run optical to it. Start gathering your speakers. Then be ready to jump on a new one when the right deal comes along. The older pre-HDMI ones still can have amazing sound quality, especially for purely music listening.

 

[Arkaign]

Also : the Diamonds are going to be great for starting out, for sure. 16-18AWG wire is more than fine. Get a proper stripper for the task. 38DD is good there.

Lol jk, but seriously, having the tool on hand will make it a lot easier. Carefully scoring the wire casing with a pair of scissors and biting the ends off with my teeth has been my solution when I don't have my tools lol, and it's definitely a last ditch way of doing it.

 

[SamirD]

Get a proper stripper for the task. 38DD is good there.

LOL!! I was about to search '38DD' as I thought it was a model number, hahaha!!

 

[blurecentrel]

Got to say i opted for this:

1. Denon AVR-4306 (SH) £100

2. Wharfedale Diamond SW150 Active Subwoofer (got that from cashconverter store in mint conditions) (SH) £70

3. Wharfedale Diamond 220 (pair fronts) new £110

4. Mordaunt Short M10 (pair for rear surround) new £59

5. Wharfedale Diamond 11.CC (front speaker) new £110

Wise choice or not? Not going to change them soon for more powerfull ones.