Libya to stop WMD programs.

[tallest1]

I love how Bush claims responsibility for only what happens OUTSIDE of our country.

The men responsible for 9/11, huge deficit, underfunded domestic programs, the theft of our freedomes, and etc are not his fault at all.

 

[BigJ]

Great...instead of discussing what kind of effect this could have on the international community or something relevant to the OP, it turns into another roasting of Bush.

 

[Moonbeam]

We have the greatest idiological truth on the planet, in my opinion, our Constitutional government and the bill of rights. But instead of fighting with out greatest weapon, we fight with force. We will make you obey with our military might. That is the road to disaster, and the way of faithless cowards. We will only create a suppressed hate that will one day tear us down. You don't loose friends who have come out of the dark into the light through understanding. We create enemy upon enemy through violence and no real friends. One day we pay the Piper. But that's the way of the right wing because it's all they know. Violence made them and supports then till the fall.

 

[kage69]

I thought WMD didn't matter, it was freedom and democrocy. Let's go kick Gaddafi out anyway.

But then of course there's the huge difference in cooperation between Gaddafi and Saddam... haven't heard any reports of Libya fvckin with inspectors or failing to account for large stockpiles of weapons already made. Libya and Iraq can't be judged in the same light, sorry.

I say bravo for Gaddafi! Nice to see they get the point. I see even Hans Blix now thinks that the Iraqi invasion has proved a good example and incentive for other countries to get in line. I'd rather Israel would do the same thing, but then there's that whole "getting ganged up on" thing, and the continuous stream of threats from Tehran...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Great...instead of discussing what kind of effect this could have on the international community or something relevant to the OP, it turns into another roasting of Bush.

Hmm, the international community (and US public for that matter) hasn't given a poop about North Africa since the 80s. Our hunger initiatives have typically focused on East Africa . . . and of course, now we have covert ops in the Horn . . . maybe we should discuss how the lack of a commitment to hunger and AIDS (commitment NOT lip service) has affected the international community?

As previously stated, Libya has been a bit player with regards to international terrorism for some time now. Arguably, Reagan spanked dat arse . . . and it changed their behavior. But in general, Libya was a unanimous world pariah. Gaddafi changed his tune a long time ago b/c he realized membership has it's privileges . . . particularly for a country with abundant natural resources. The negotiations with Bush/Blair has more to do with the Axis of Aggressors being bullies that must be mollified than anything else. It's not like AoA are going out of their way to liberate oppressed people in sub-Saharan Africa, North Korea, or Chechnya.

So in the grand scheme . . . this changes very little in the international community. But Gaddafi is going to get mad payback since this despot essentially controls the resources of Libya.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: kage69

I thought WMD didn't matter, it was freedom and democrocy. Let's go kick Gaddafi out anyway.

But then of course there's the huge difference in cooperation between Gaddafi and Saddam... haven't heard any reports of Libya fvckin with inspectors or failing to account for large stockpiles of weapons already made. Libya and Iraq can't be judged in the same light, sorry.

I say bravo for Gaddafi! Nice to see they get the point. I see even Hans Blix now thinks that the Iraqi invasion has proved a good example and incentive for other countries to get in line. I'd rather Israel would do the same thing, but then there's that whole "getting ganged up on" thing, and the continuous stream of threats from Tehran...

Oh, so did David Key found the large stockpiles of weapons already made that Iraqi didn't accounted for? I must missed the new!!

Make up your mind already, was the WMD the reason for invading Iraq or not. If it was then it was a total mistake for American to invade Iraq because there was no WMD.

If freedom and democracy was the reason, like Bush and his supporter fall back to after failling to find the WMD, then it didn't matter if Gaddafi stopped WMD program, he and his government is still one of the worst in terms of human right violation.

Or you think the thousand of Iraqis that died just serves to set an example to the enemy of United State that either get with the program or suffer the consequence, well you know what, you have no right telling how those dictators should rule their people becasue that's what they do day in and day out, kill and set examples.

 

[kage69]

Oh, so did David Key found the large stockpiles of weapons already made that Iraqi didn't accounted for? I must missed the new!!

Not to my knowledge, no. Are you contesting that Iraq didn't account for all of it's bio/chem stockpile? Be it Iraq making up records, clerical errors, or the chance they might be out buried in the desert, some of the stockpiles were not accounted for. Get as frothy as you want about nothing being found, that isn't the issue and wasn't what I was refering to. Sorry.

Make up your mind already, was the WMD the reason for invading Iraq or not. If it was then it was a total mistake for American to invade Iraq because there was no WMD

Quit trying to manufacture an issue. What my mind is made up to doesn't matter - WMD was the cause of the invasion, so far none have been found, thus the US was had. My point is that if Saddam had rendered cooperation on par with what Ghaddafi seems to be doing, there probably wouldn't have been an invasion. Libya has disclosed a virtual smorgasborg of info on it's WMD program. Need I bring up Saddam's history with inspections?

Or you think the thousand of Iraqis that died just serves to set an example to the enemy of United State that either get with the program or suffer the consequence, well you know what, you have no right telling how those dictators should rule their people becasue that's what they do day in and day out, kill and set examples.

First of all, Saddam has gone through hundreds of thousands of his own people. Some say upwards of a million. Second, I explicity said there's the huge difference in cooperation between Gaddafi and Saddam Quit trying to put words in my mouth. Nothing in my post even hinted at 'me telling a dictator how to rule his people' but for the record, I'm not as comfortable with killing thousands to set examples as you seem to be. You're a real sanctimonious ass, you know that? One that has trouble reading no less.

 

[ReiAyanami]

for those who say Bush's war on iraq had nothing to do with libya, then what per say did prompt such turnaround that coincidently is right after saddam crawls out of a hole

Quadaffiduck had 15 years and now all of a sudden a week after saddam is caught in a rathole he changes his tune? what prompted his decision if it ain't iraq? Christmas goodwill? a gift so good he had to wait 15+ years to give it?

Bush's war on terror has

1) Freed Afghanistan from Taliban
2) Removed 1 evil dictator from Iraq
3) Caused Iran to admit weapons inspectors to its nuclear facilities.
4) Caused North Korea to reveal its SECRET nuclear weapons program.
5) Committed Saudi Arabia to freezing terrorist funds.
6) May have helped convince Libya to stop its WMD attemptes and they now say they are committed against terrorism.

The only wild cards are Syria which still denies. North Korea which has isolated itself, but the declaration of its nukes have brought Japan, South Korea on our side and China also against nukes.

and of course Colombia is in the background with the FARC and drug wars

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I am not sure what's going on.

What is he giving up?

Is this out of fear, or is it a reasonably clever ploy to get back in the good graces of the international community?

I think the answer will come when we see how much is done and how much is talk.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
for those who say Bush's war on iraq had nothing to do with libya, then what per say did prompt such turnaround that coincidently is right after saddam crawls out of a hole

Quadaffiduck had 15 years and now all of a sudden a week after saddam is caught in a rathole he changes his tune? what prompted his decision if it ain't iraq? Christmas goodwill? a gift so good he had to wait 15+ years to give it?

Bush's war on terror has

1) Freed Afghanistan from Taliban
2) Removed 1 evil dictator from Iraq
3) Caused Iran to admit weapons inspectors to its nuclear facilities.
4) Caused North Korea to reveal its SECRET nuclear weapons program.
5) Committed Saudi Arabia to freezing terrorist funds.
6) May have helped convince Libya to stop its WMD attemptes and they now say they are committed against terrorism.


The only wild cards are Syria which still denies. North Korea which has isolated itself, but the declaration of its nukes have brought Japan, South Korea on our side and China also against nukes.

and of course Colombia is in the background with the FARC and drug wars

Makes you stop and think how much further along we could be had we acted intelligently, huh.

 

[KenGr]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Libya has been campaigning to rejoin the world community for years. The worrisome WMD is being developed by states still shrouded in secrecy (Israel, North Korea) and the various states/organizations willing to use WMD . . . or any weapon for that matter to resolve political disputes.

Let's not forget that the US is actively helping Israel develop WMD's, which of course makes the US guilty of proliferating WMD.

I almost hate to bring this up, but an opening like this is too good to pass up. We know very well who helped Israel develop it's nuclear weapons capability. The US refused to support this due to a longstanding policy of not sending nuclear technology into the mid-east. The nuclear technology was provide to Israel by France. There is nothing hidden about this and it was completely legal at the time since it predated (by a few years) the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.

 

[0roo0roo]

tripoli? pirates? ransoms? americans paying tribute? hehe

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
"We are no safer today than the day the planes struck the World Trade Center."

CkG

He could add an addendum, "We are no safer today than the day the planes struck the World Trade Center", BUT we will have a lot more OIL and GAS to fuel our SUV's and WAR machinery.

The REAL reason Libya folded, apparently Bush, Haliburton & Co were going to target Libya next for their OIL:

Libya Says Wants U.S. Oil Companies Back

Libya hopes its pledge Friday to abandon weapons of mass destruction may lead to the return of the U.S. oil majors that were once responsible for producing around one million barrels per day of its crude.

"The U.S. has oil advantages in Libya," Chalgam said. "We will try to convince U.S. oil companies to return."

Several European oil companies, including Spain's Repsol, French Total, Germany's RWE , Austria's OMV and Italy's ENI already operate in Libya.

Five U.S. oil firms were active in Libya before sanctions on investment in 1986...A senior administration official told Reuters Friday it was too early to say when and if the United States will lift sanctions. The oil companies themselves have said they would return to Libya should they be allowed to do so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[DT4K]

Nine months of secret negotiations.
12 = December.
12 - 9 = 3.
3 = March.
Invasion of Iraq = March, 2003.

Must just be a coincidence.

 

[amok]

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
for those who say Bush's war on iraq had nothing to do with libya, then what per say did prompt such turnaround that coincidently is right after saddam crawls out of a hole

Quadaffiduck had 15 years and now all of a sudden a week after saddam is caught in a rathole he changes his tune? what prompted his decision if it ain't iraq? Christmas goodwill? a gift so good he had to wait 15+ years to give it?

Bush's war on terror has

1) Freed Afghanistan from Taliban
2) Removed 1 evil dictator from Iraq
3) Caused Iran to admit weapons inspectors to its nuclear facilities.
4) Caused North Korea to reveal its SECRET nuclear weapons program.
5) Committed Saudi Arabia to freezing terrorist funds.
6) May have helped convince Libya to stop its WMD attemptes and they now say they are committed against terrorism.

The only wild cards are Syria which still denies. North Korea which has isolated itself, but the declaration of its nukes have brought Japan, South Korea on our side and China also against nukes.

and of course Colombia is in the background with the FARC and drug wars

I have reservations regarding 1, because I'm not sure the current government over there is that much better than the old one, but will let it slide since I'm not an expert on government .

I have real complaints about 4 though (and have discussed them in more detail in other threads). Their SECRET nuclear programs were of no consequence. It was all leg-work, and wouldn't have made a damned bit of difference if they hadn't started processing weapons grade materials. They didn't do that until AFTER we applied a little pressure to them. The type of work they were doing is dwarfed by what some grad students here in the US work on for their PhD's. Theoretical research isn't dangerous to anyone. Its the application of this work that is dangerous. Their processing facility was cold when Bush took office.