Libya

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Obama is dropping the ball, again. War power act gives him right to shoot down planes and take Kadafi out. I would not even a question. Some people just need a killing nd this is trivial for a CBG.

Just like Saddam needed ousting right?
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Yeah its only Europe. Its not like any other world power provides state of the art weapons to similar dictatorships, say Egypt, Bahrein, Saudi Arabia,.. or Iran before its revolution, Iraq before it started selling oil in Euro's.

The US does, but they don't encourage the dictatorships to slaughter their citizens with those weapons. The Europeans are scared shitless of a mass exodus of migrants from North Africa. That's why even last week there were statements from the Italian PM supporting Mubarak!

Anyway, Id be reluctant to embrace military intervention. The idea that military might is there to be used is a very dangerous one, as it rarely achieves its objectives and tends to backfire big time.

Imposing a no-fly zone over Southern Europe would ensure that the Libyan protestors are not further slaughtered. Remember, France violated a UN embargo to ship a planeload of weapons to Rwanda during its genocide. They tried to do the same thing with Tunisia. Italy will likely do the same with Libya.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
I should not reply to you as usual, but your response is idiotic - typical right-wing nutty.

Super, I was waiting for the 'idiot' reference, but I'm disappointed I didn't get a Save234 at the end! Couldn't you at least throw in your '95% of what I say is drivel, the other 5% stuck in my mouth'?

It's like 'The Police should tell peple who protest their beating people wrongly, that they will no longer do any police work at those people's homes if crimes happen.

Usually your analogies are a trainwreck and not applicable, however, I'll try and make yours work here. I know you won't get it, but, others viewing the thread will at least understand:

When it's a bunch of people (media in various countries, normal people in various countries, actual elected members in various countries) living in one house (Earth), and these people constantly deride the police (US/The West), constantly have ill will towards the police, constantly always have a negative thing to say about the police, no matter if the police work OT for these people (respond to various entities in need), shed blood (send our own children to get killed and/or maimed) for these people, donate to these people (our own treasure we end up paying for), etc., then really, when two of these people in the same house are fighting with each other (Iraq before The Surge which wouldn't work worked, Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, etc.) and it gets heated, why would anyone ever expect the police to go into the equivalent of South Central L.A. at night for a report of two gangs having it out with each other? At some point, when the local community will not help itself, is combative towards the police, resentful towards the police, hostile towards the police, complains to the mayor (the UN) about the bad bad police, the police who have been trying the best despite this same thankless people, are just going to say, 'Yeah, call us when the shoutings over, we'll take a drive on through to see what's left.'

You don't like the police, fine.'

No, I like the police just fine Craig. It's you who think they'll be "less effective human beings" for being the police.

The US should use its military for good purposes - like enforcing good UN measures.

That's the problem Craig, "good" is a subjective word. You didn't want the evil "Bush&Co" to go into Iraq, instead you wanted the UN to do its thing, have that situation last another 40 years, which isn't sustainable, eventually have Saddam and/or one of his nutf*ck sons get a real WMD, and then the entire ME region is radically more destabilized than it is even now. To say nothing of the conditions the Iraqi's would live under for that period. To say nothing of all the games The Evil West would have to be playing with him over that period. Because, short of Bush doing what he did, that was the only way Saddam was realistically going anywhere. I am one who thought what Bush did was, long term, good ("good" to you).

So now you're saying the US military should make itself available to the UN, a body so smart and trustworthy it has Libya on the Human Rights council or WhateverTF they are on. A body that flaps it's lips (hmmm..just like you!) but never actually acts prior to when acting is needed - meaning: When it will actually do some F'ing good, not after its too F'ing late and now its convenient to go in (perfect example: UN effort in Sudan, stalled, because out of the entire UN, they couldn't muster 24 F'ing helicopters. The vaunted UN in action).

Why would the US ever want to be tied to a group like that? Ever?

Chuck
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Now that the US citizens have been taken to Malta it's time to unleash the AC-130s en masse and stop effing around.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
WTF? Unleash them on who? The US/West are occupiers, torturers, murderers, rapists, etc. The people don't want our help. They can call up Pakistan, I'm sure Pakistan will help them.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
WTF? Unleash them on who? The US/West are occupiers, torturers, murderers, rapists, etc. The people don't want our help. They can call up Pakistan, I'm sure Pakistan will help them.
Remaining military assets loyal to Gadhafi.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
I get what you're saying, but, the average person in the ME is so brainwashed, if those remaining assets loyal to Gadhafi publically said they were about to massacre civilians, said civilians confirmed their own military was going to massacre them, we took out only those military assests (zero civilian casualties), a year later some Inciter over there would be claiming that the US illegally invaded, illegally butchered, illegally lied, illegally whatever'd, the Lefty/HateAmerica crowd over here and elsewhere throughout the world would jump on the bandwagon, and Poof!, the same average people in the ME would see/hear that and go, Those American devils! Their Jew Masters and They must be destroyed!

Then the same Lefties/AmericaHaters that helped spread the lie that we purposefully killed civilians would point to them and say, Look! That's what happens when you illegally invade, illegally.........

That's why I say, let them do it without us. Pakistan is an awesome country from what I hear, so is France, Russia, China, and Brazil. They'll send all the aid these people need, and for sure, they and their populace' don't make sh1t up because they dislike American's.

Chuck
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Just like Saddam needed ousting right?

every situation is not the same. You weigh risk reward cost benefit. Iraq occupation poor calculus. Bombing Kadafi in 80's not so poor math and not a bad idea today to take him and his thugs out. Basically amounts to a training exercise for our filers in a CBG, if Obama wasnt so stupid and actually had one in the region. And prevents prevents lots of innocent deaths. Iraq amounted to trillions of dollars, hundreds of thousands dead, etc For what? We are still left guessing.
 
Last edited:

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
The US does, but they don't encourage the dictatorships to slaughter their citizens with those weapons. The Europeans are scared shitless of a mass exodus of migrants from North Africa. That's why even last week there were statements from the Italian PM supporting Mubarak!



Imposing a no-fly zone over Southern Europe would ensure that the Libyan protestors are not further slaughtered. Remember, France violated a UN embargo to ship a planeload of weapons to Rwanda during its genocide. They tried to do the same thing with Tunisia. Italy will likely do the same with Libya.

Europe is in thick with Kadafi is why politicians are dallying to that thug.. We've always known he was a psycho mass murderer and never really cottoned to him but Europe has all sorts of trillion dollar business deals with Kadafi that go down the tubes if he leaves and stops being their boy.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Europe is in thick with Kadafi is why politicians are dallying to that thug.. We've always known he was a psycho mass murderer and never really cottoned to him but Europe has all sorts of trillion dollar business deals with Kadafi that go down the tubes if he leaves and stops being their boy.

Yes, the Europeans are worried about their economic deals (especially energy) and migrants. Gadhafi was propped up by various European nations as long as he crushed/massacred the refugees passing through Libya to Italy and gave them oil. He was even willing to cede sovereignty to the EU and let them set up concentration camps in the desert to house refugees trying to make it to Europe. Now thousands of refugees are fleeing North Africa and landing in Europe.

The US needs to move in and monitor the Europeans and make sure that they're not conducting mass executions on fleeing refugees.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Any military action we take will bite us in the ass. It appears that their dictator won't be around long. Let them handle it then offer technical support or whatever for rebuilding. Keep a low profile, because the US is not seen as a friendly figure. Funny, but installing dictators and bombing countries then justifying it as "it was for their own good" doesn't sit well with people. Go figure.

Stay back for now then approach with offers, not traps or mandates.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Just heard on AJ some defective General say all they want is for us enforce a no fly so Kadafi stops flying in African mercenaries and bombing/shooting them with gun ships. They will take care of the rest.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Just heard on AJ some defective General say all they want is for us enforce a no fly so Kadafi stops flying in African mercenaries and bombing/shooting them with gun ships. They will take care of the rest.


Hmmm... I might go for that, but mission creep would be my concern.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
At least one high UN official has called on other nations to intervene to contain Kaddifi's abuse.

My guess, Kaddifi is crusin for a brusin from one entity or another in the very near future. And may simply see everyone of his palaces bombed to rubble to kinda give him a hint.

You really have no clue do you Lemon law.....NOBODY cares about your uneducated wishful mushroom inspired guesses!

Hell not one single guess of yours concerning Israel or Palestine has come to pass!!

Hint -- Quit guessing!!!
 
Last edited:

P4man

Senior member
Aug 27, 2010
254
0
0
The US does, but they don't encourage the dictatorships to slaughter their citizens with those weapons.

Nah, they just sell (or give) them the arms and training to do so. Im sure its only for 'peace keeping' and to fight insurgency terrorists.

Its good to see people wake up to the reality of our western foreign policy hypocrisy, and no country I know is innocent in this regard, but singling out Europe is more than a bit myopic when the US is by far the biggest enabler, financier and arms dealer of dictatorships across the globe, and in the middle east in particular.

The Europeans are scared shitless of a mass exodus of migrants from North Africa. That's why even last week there were statements from the Italian PM supporting Mubarak!
Sounds like Italy is in agreement with Israel then. Not too mention, the US up until a few weeks ago, as I recall they did a fair bit more than providing lipservice. Or is Mubarak only evil now that he has been ousted?
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
:hmm:

doesn't the UN have... you know... a peacekeeping force?

yes but they only act after the United States makes it safe for them to go in.

Expect a very strongly worded letter and an entry in Libya's permanent record over this one!

The U.N. is a joke.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
yes but they only act after the United States makes it safe for them to go in.

Expect a very strongly worded letter and an entry in Libya's permanent record over this one!

The U.N. is a joke.

This.

Just because the USAF or a US CBG could wipe out the Colonel and his Keystone Cops in a matter of hours doesn't mean we should. It is time for the European nations to take care of this situation, IMO.
 

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,365
475
126
Wrong tin pot dictator -- I believe that was Dear Leader in North Korea.

shit that reminds me - Kim Jong Il hasn't been in the news for the last few weeks. i bet he'll launch a missile toward japan or blow up a nuke to get back in the news sometime soon.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
There's nothing to take care of. Freedom is paid for in blood, the libyan people will either fight for theirs or be destroyed by the dictator. You can't give people their freedom. I can't believe so many haven't learned anything in the past 10 years.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Just heard on AJ some defective General say all they want is for us enforce a no fly so Kadafi stops flying in African mercenaries and bombing/shooting them with gun ships. They will take care of the rest.

Let them take care of their own situation. We shouldnt be getting involved in these situations.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |