Link me Affordable healthcare.

[Insomniator]

One thing is for sure, I can't wait until something actually happens. I just want to see what all this arguing for the past... forever... will amount to.

I'm not convinced EVERYONE can be fully covered at an affordable rate, regardless of how efficient or well run the system is. Not unless you want to tax the crap out of EVERYONE, which we already do for everything else in this country.

What percent of people actually use their coverage and what is the actual average cost per year to the insurance companies? How many people costs a hundred grand a year to the companies? Is it less than I think?

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
BTW, can you define 'affordable' for me please.

You and the rest of us with jobs paying in taxes while he contributes nothing.

 

[quackerww]

http://www.basichealth.hca.wa.gov/

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Why did you go to Dr's office and why was it denied?

Your story sounds to convenient, oh I am healthy with no problems, but they won't even let me visit a doctor...

BTW, can you define 'affordable' for me please.

I went in to have Titers done of my antibody levels because I need them. Total cost for that blood work was about $50-75, so you can minus that if you really want. I hadn't been to the doctor in a while and had a few minor "problems" that I wanted to discuss. I am not going into specifics of my health, but a 1 degree relative was recently diagnosed with a very genetically linked form of cancer and I had some issue that I needed checked. This resulted in a full H&P work up and some labs and a chest xray, AP and Left. That was about it.

How about this for a definition of affordable. I am currently going $70,000 a year in debt for school, split into two semester payouts. After paying 6months of rent up front, I am left with ~4000.00 to live on for 6 months. I need to eat, wash myself, keep myself warm and afford health insurance.

Originally posted by: alchemize
There is no such thing as affordable healthcare. Healthcare is expensive. Everywhere.

Not true.

Sounds like school is the real problem, we need to reform the schools, Obama will you help us....

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: quackerww
http://www.basichealth.hca.wa.gov/

Ive used this. Was unemployed (mostly voluntarily) for a year and it worked fine for me. Ive talked about it in other threads.

 

[Patranus]

http://www.gouvernement.fr/

Oh wait, they have an income tax rate of up to 71%...ya...real *affordable* over there in France....

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: Patranus
http://www.gouvernement.fr/

Oh wait, they have an income tax rate of up to 71%...ya...real *affordable* over there in France....

First off, that number is probably doctored in some way, knowing the source (eg you).

Secondly, we have a huge tax rate if you count how much after-tax dollars we have to spend on things that the French pay for before taxes.

What detractors of health care reform don't understand is that the reforms will most likely help each and every one of them. The US is the only modern country in the world where medical bankruptcies happen, where coverage is denied, where people die because they cannot afford to see a doctor and for all this trouble, we pay more than 50% more than every modern country in the world. If reform tackles even just one of those problems, the US will be much stronger in the long run.

 

[FaaR]

I'm curious... Those who are negative to universal health care and think everybody should pay for their own personal costs, let me ask you this:

Did you personally pay for water, sewage and electrical utilties to be laid out so they could be hooked up to your home?

What about telephone wires, did you personally pay for those?

Roads then, did you pay for them to be constructed, and paved? I assume there's a road leading up to your home, or at least leading by outside it. So logically, you must have paid for that out of your own pocket, right?

No? You didn't personally pay for any of that you say?

So what the *bleep* are you bleeting about when it comes to health care???

And when you complain that it would be so enormously expensive, consider Europe, where pretty much every man woman and child enjoy universal health care, and that without crippling costs to either society or the individual. So it's certainly doable.

If everyone enjoys proper health care, costs to society might actually go down, since people would not suffer debilitating afflictions they can't afford to have taken care of, and could therefore make a bigger contribution TO society in the form of work, and taxes paid...

 

[FaaR]

Originally posted by: PatranusOh wait, they have an income tax rate of up to 71%...ya...real *affordable* over there in France....

Oh, by the way... That's a bogus/biased/misinterpreted statement.

If you go to France like I have done, you'll see that people there are perfectly able to pay for any of the luxuries your average american enjoys, including a house/home, cars, fashion clothes, electronic gadgetry and whatnot. Even with their levels of taxation.

So it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: FaaR
I'm curious... Those who are negative to universal health care and think everybody should pay for their own personal costs, let me ask you this:

Did you personally pay for water, sewage and electrical utilties to be laid out so they could be hooked up to your home?

What about telephone wires, did you personally pay for those?

Roads then, did you pay for them to be constructed, and paved? I assume there's a road leading up to your home, or at least leading by outside it. So logically, you must have paid for that out of your own pocket, right?

No? You didn't personally pay for any of that you say?

So what the *bleep* are you bleeting about when it comes to health care???

And when you complain that it would be so enormously expensive, consider Europe, where pretty much every man woman and child enjoy universal health care, and that without crippling costs to either society or the individual. So it's certainly doable.

If everyone enjoys proper health care, costs to society might actually go down, since people would not suffer debilitating afflictions they can't afford to have taken care of, and could therefore make a bigger contribution TO society in the form of work, and taxes paid...

Yes I did. Yes I did pay for all of those things. I pay a shit load in taxes. Yes I did pay for those things. But then again I work and earn my keep instead of mooching off the gubment. The share I paid for all of those you listed is far more than what those who don't pay taxes is (which is a significant percentage of the population).

 

[FaaR]

Originally posted by: spidey07Yes I did. Yes I did pay for all of those things. I pay a shit load in taxes.

So basically you contradict yourself immediately in your own post... Impressive, most impressive!

If you claim that you personally pay for utilities by paying tax, then you're wrong. You're actually paying only a subsidized cost for these things, if you personally had to carry the direct costs of not only utilities, but fire marshals, police, public works, military and so on, there'd be no way for you to survive.

Hence the very reason we have SOCIETIES; for mutual protection, benefit and to leverage costs across a larger population.

So if paying taxes to support utilities and other services is paying for your own cost in your eyes, then paying taxes to support universal health care CAN NOT be considered 'mooching off the gubment'... That would be contradicting yourself - again.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: FaaR

Originally posted by: spidey07Yes I did. Yes I did pay for all of those things. I pay a shit load in taxes.

So basically you contradict yourself immediately in your own post... Impressive, most impressive!

If you claim that you personally pay for utilities by paying tax, then you're wrong. You're actually paying only a subsidized cost for these things, if you personally had to carry the direct costs of not only utilities, but fire marshals, police, public works, military and so on, there'd be no way for you to survive.

Hence the very reason we have SOCIETIES; for mutual protection, benefit and to leverage costs across a larger population.

So if paying taxes to support utilities and other services is paying for your own cost in your eyes, then paying taxes to support universal health care CAN NOT be considered 'mooching off the gubment'... That would be contradicting yourself - again.

I think you're confusing my point. Group policy insurance would be similar - people pay their individual share. Man and society would find a way to provide all the services you bring up without government, and most of what you listed is local societies anyway.

My point is very simple - government stay out of my life and stop stealing my money.

 

[FaaR]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I think you're confusing my point.

I don't think you know what your point really is.

You want one thing, but the arguments you bring up to support it actually support something else.

Man and society would find a way to provide all the services you bring up without government, and most of what you listed is local societies anyway.

It would, how? If you decide not to pay your local society road fee, then what, you get thrown in prison? Nailed shut inside your own house?

There's no practical difference between what you call a group policy insurance and a general universal insurance, regardless you will end up paying for other people's costs. That's the whole point of an insurance policy, that you DON'T pay your own costs. This is why your argument is fundamentally broken.

If you want for each to only pay their own costs, then all forms of insurance, subsidies, taxes and so on must be abolished. But that would mean the end of civilization as we know it since it would pull away the financial support rug from under all forms of public service. Entire nations would collapse, at most we'd have independent city states, with no particular affiliations to anyone.

My point is very simple - government stay out of my life and stop stealing my money.

You're too focused on money.

Money is a tool, so that I don't have to go to the super market with seventeen bales of hay to pay for my weekend groceries, or a cartload of ore to the tailor to pay for a new suit of clothes. However, you and your typical conservative american treat money as the end unto itself, rather than the means to achieve that end. Your point is without merit, I'm afraid.