Question Linux on a USB or VM?

[biostud]

I'm contemplating toying around with a Linux distro, and since I don't want it to wreak havok with my regular setup I was wondering if I should use a USB install or VM?

I have a 128GB USB stick with ~300/300 R/W speed so I think it should be OK for a test vehicle.

If I want to test gaming I would suspect that the USB is the way to go?

Is there any distro you would recommend?

It will just be for regular desktop usage and maybe exploring Linux gaming to see what the fuzz is about.

I've seen recommendations of Linux Pop! or Ubuntu for this type of setup.

Any difference in using software like Rufus to set it up or do a USB to USB install?

 

[Shmee]

My recommendation would to create a multiple boot USB drive using ventoy. You could put multiple Linux ISOs on it, and you could use either a regular USB thumb drive, or even better, an NVMe m.2 drive in a USB enclosure, which would be much faster. You could put Windows installers and other tools on it as well.

Personally, for Linux distros, I like Xubuntu.

 

[mikeymikec]

I haven't tried to experiment much with gaming because that's why I have Win11 in my dual-boot setup, but aside from that I recommend Linux Mint 21.x as it has worked for me when ubuntu derivatives were on shaky ground.

What exactly do you want to test? For different forms of testing I prefer different setups:

1 - Live CD/USB for a quick play
2 - VM which can be handy when you want to alt-tab out and browse for a solution in an environment that "just works"
3 - Separate machine

One advantage of a VM is to be able to install from an ISO file and just blow away the VM's install without all the mucking about with the boot process and associated downtime; the VM can also be busy installing while you're reading up about something else. Sometimes though being able to check that a Linux setup will natively handle the hardware you're wanting it to eventually run on is helpful (or at least a near equivalent).

With regard to not messing up your existing setup, my dual-booting setup (since 2018) has always kept Linux on a different SSD to Windows. While Linux handles overall boot management, I had it write its boot management stuff to its own SSD. I'm fairly sure if I were to disconnect the Linux SSD then Windows would just boot as if it was a single-boot setup.

PS - just because your USB flash drive boasts high max throughput figures, it probably will be as slow as hell while doing things like the initial OS install or the initial slew of updates. USB latency also adds a lot to USB-connected hard drives and SSDs.

 

[biostud]

I haven't tried to experiment much with gaming because that's why have Win11 in my dual-boot setup, but aside from that I recommend Linux Mint 21.x as it has worked for me when ubuntu derivatives were on shaky ground.

What exactly do you want to test? For different forms of testing I prefer different setups:

1 - Live CD/USB for a quick play
2 - VM which can be handy when you want to alt-tab out and browse for a solution in an environment that "just works"
3 - Separate machine

One advantage of a VM is to be able to install from an ISO file and just blow away the VM's install without all the mucking about with the boot process and associated downtime; the VM can also be busy installing while you're reading up about something else. Sometimes though being able to check that a Linux setup will natively handle the hardware you're wanting it to eventually run on is helpful (or at least a near equivalent).

With regard to not messing up your existing setup, my dual-booting setup (since 2018) has always kept Linux on a different SSD to Windows. While Linux handles overall boot management, I had it write its boot management stuff to its own SSD. I'm fairly sure if I were to disconnect the Linux SSD then Windows would just boot as if it was a single-boot setup.

PS - just because your USB flash drive boasts high max throughput figures, it probably will be as slow as hell while doing things like the initial OS install or the initial slew of updates. USB latency also adds a lot to USB-connected hard drives and SSDs.

It makes good sense, basically I'm just curious and with the way Windows is going, it might be the right time to learn an alternative...

I think I'll start with a VM, to get the basic feel of it, and as you say can easily tab out of it if needed.

VMware should be fine for this?

 

[mikeymikec]

It makes good sense, basically I'm just curious and with the way Windows is going, it might be the right time to learn an alternative...

I think I'll start with a VM, to get the basic feel of it, and as you say can easily tab out of it if needed.

VMware should be fine for this?

I don't know much about VMware, I've used Virtualbox for years for all its sins

 

[In2Photos]

I've recently thought about doing this as well. To start I just want to try it out and run FoldingAtHome on it as it gets more points than Windows typically. Please share your thoughts and what you end up doing!

 

[biostud]

I don't know much about VMware, I've used Virtualbox for years for all its sins

I've only tried VMware to get a dymo printer working in a windows 8 environment, as a windows update borked their drivers. Luckily it was solved after 1.5 years....

Never tried any other VMs.

 

[manly]

I've never used VBox 7 but the best thing about VirtualBox was that it was free (gratis). VBox works, and it's adequate, but the UI is pretty meh.
Now that VMware Workstation is also gratis, I would use that. In my past experience, it was always a better experience.

A Ventoy flash drive is a good idea to get started. But a Live "DVD" experiment is really just to play around for a few hours. Assuming you want a more "persistent" environment, you'd want a real installation into a VM.

Finally for gaming, you'd need a native install. At that point, you'll probably want to install onto real storage (say a spare SATA SSD) and you will have to install the GRUB 2 boot loader onto your main SSD.

 

[biostud]

I've just got Linux mint up and running on VMware, and I'm posting from said VM

 

[biostud]

I also managed to install steam and try a single game (Limbo) just to see if I could. And seemed to work fine. Obviously if I want to run demanding games it shouldn't be in a VM.

But so far it has been pretty straight forward.

When I have steam open in Windows it tries to stream from windows to Linux, and then the sound doesn't work, but I guess it wasn't meant for this kind of setup

I've also installed Edge

 

[mikeymikec]

I've also installed Edge

You've installed Edge on Linux? Were you feeling a bit kinky or something?

 

[biostud]

You've installed Edge on Linux? Were you feeling a bit kinky or something?

I use office365 quite a lot and Edge is my preferred browser, and when trying to make a new document in FF it simply made a blank page. So, I thought why not do something completely bonkers, which would make the Linux crowd bring out the pitchforks. But I've recently switched to duckduckgo for my preferred search engine, so it is quite a mix of establishment and anti-establishment

I've never used Chrome as my main browser.

 

[mikeymikec]

I use office365 quite a lot and Edge is my preferred browser, and when trying to make a new document in FF it simply made a blank page. So, I thought why not do something completely bonkers, which would make the Linux crowd bring out the pitchforks. But I've recently switched to duckduckgo for my preferred search engine, so it is quite a mix of establishment and anti-establishment

I've never used Chrome as my main browser.

Hopefully you didn't install it from some random ppa but a known good source?

 

[biostud]

Hopefully you didn't install it from some random ppa but a known good source?

It was from Microsofts own page, you can choose linux in the bottom

Hent Microsoft Edge

Download Microsoft Edge to browse on a fast and secure browser. Sync your passwords, favorites, and collections across your devices.

www.microsoft.com

 

[mikeymikec]

It was from Microsofts own page, you can choose linux in the bottom

Hent Microsoft Edge

Download Microsoft Edge to browse on a fast and secure browser. Sync your passwords, favorites, and collections across your devices.

www.microsoft.com

What about browser updates?

I found this:

UbuntuUpdates - PPA: Microsoft Edge

 

[biostud]

What about browser updates?

I found this:

UbuntuUpdates - PPA: Microsoft Edge

I did my first Linux install in maybe 20 years, so go easy on me

I still have to learn how the basics of the OS and it's software.

 

[mikeymikec]

I did my first Linux install in maybe 20 years, so go easy on me

I still have to learn how the basics of the OS and it's software.

Did you do sudo dpkg -i packagename.deb presumably?

 

[manly]

Did you do sudo dpkg -i packagename.deb presumably?

Same as it was when OP last tried 20 years ago.

 

[biostud]

Did you do sudo dpkg -i packagename.deb presumably?

I think I gave up before I even got to terminal

Running in VM is much better for learning and actually having access to the internet at home to find help also quite the improvement.

Same as it was when OP last tried 20 years ago.

Yeah, didn't go so well last time.

 

[Steltek]

I think I gave up before I even got to terminal

Running in VM is much better for learning and actually having access to the internet at home to find help also quite the improvement.

Yeah, didn't go so well last time.

If you haven't done so, check out the vmWare snapshot function.

If you keep a current snapshot and then manage to totally bork up the system, you can roll it back to its prior state by restoring the prior snapshot. You would just loose any changes made after the date of the snapshot.

BTW, @mikeymikec, there is an Edge flatpack available that can be installed via the Mint Software Manager, so you don't have to mess with the PPAs. The flatpacks from Flathub supposedly automatically update now, and that is where Software Manager gets them from.

 

[mikeymikec]

@Steltek Yeah, but flatpaks suck performance-wise. The last time I had one for a browser, it started as quickly as a native app I had in a VM running off a HDD!

I think I gave up before I even got to terminal

Give it a chance For example, instead of going to a website, downloading an install program, waiting for it to download, going through several clicks to install it, then repeat that for however many apps you need to install, best case scenario on Linux is that you type a command like:

sudo apt install vlc

It asks for your password and then just installs it. Also, app updates are all rolled into one system, click on an icon on your taskbar, it lists the updates, click on update all, it asks for your password, done.

You can of course use whatever GUI-based app install system on whatever Linux distro you've picked, for example sometimes I prefer to use the synaptic package manager when I want to search for stuff in the repository.

Of course it's not all roses and sunshine with Linux, there are some things that are a PITA, just bear in mind there are definitely some things on Windows that are a PITA and people have just gotten used to thinking "that's the way things are".

 

[Steltek]

@Steltek Yeah, but flatpaks suck performance-wise. The last time I had one for a browser, it started as quickly as a native app I had in a VM running off a HDD!


Give it a chance For example, instead of going to a website, downloading an install program, waiting for it to download, going through several clicks to install it, then repeat that for however many apps you need to install, best case scenario on Linux is that you type a command like:

sudo apt install vlc

It asks for your password and then just installs it. Also, app updates are all rolled into one system, click on an icon on your taskbar, it lists the updates, click on update all, it asks for your password, done.

You can of course use whatever GUI-based app install system on whatever Linux distro you've picked, for example sometimes I prefer to use the synaptic package manager when I want to search for stuff in the repository.

Of course it's not all roses and sunshine with Linux, there are some things that are a PITA, just bear in mind there are definitely some things on Windows that are a PITA and people have just gotten used to thinking "that's the way things are".

Flatpaks might suck, but it is easy for a beginner, who is balancing trying to learn an entirely new OS with different ways of doing things, to grasp.

Obviously apt/apt-get is the best way to go once you know what you are doing. However, trying to show my 76 year old mother how to do a terminal command wouldn't go over well.

She is, however, perfectly able to install a flatpak from the Mint software manager though if she uses one of my machines.

One annoying thing about Mint is that, to use their upgrade process to upgrade to new versions, you often have to delete out all your 3rd party PPAs before the upgrade will run. Then, you have to re-enter them after the upgrade. Which is very annoying.

 

[manly]

I think I gave up before I even got to terminal

Running in VM is much better for learning and actually having access to the internet at home to find help also quite the improvement.

Yeah, didn't go so well last time.

So much has changed in 20 years! My quip was more about dpkg being exactly the same as always, since a few vendors still provide a .deb or .rpm for manual package installation. Nowadays you can do most everything with a GUI, but some things are still better at the command line (rsync for file replication comes to mind).

Speaking of command line, back in the mid 1990s, if you wanted a GUI on Linux, you often had to hand craft your own XFree86.config file for your video card. Those were the (bad old) days. By the late 1990s, there was some auto generation of this critical file, but it still took years of efforts to really smooth out.

I've heard mostly good things about Flatpaks. Canonical's Snaps OTOH...

I'm still considering whether it's just a bad idea, or a really bad idea, to in-place upgrade to Ubuntu 24.04. 22.04 has some annoying bugs, but I'd rather not invest the time and effort to switch to an entirely different distro unless I really have to.

 

[Steltek]

So much has changed in 20 years! My quip was more about dpkg being exactly the same as always, since a few vendors still provide a .deb or .rpm for manual package installation. Nowadays you can do most everything with a GUI, but some things are still better at the command line (rsync for file replication comes to mind).

Speaking of command line, back in the mid 1990s, if you wanted a GUI on Linux, you often had to hand craft your own XFree86.config file for your video card. Those were the (bad old) days. By the late 1990s, there was some auto generation of this critical file, but it still took years of efforts to really smooth out.

I've heard mostly good things about Flatpaks. Canonical's Snaps OTOH...

I'm still considering whether it's just a bad idea, or a really bad idea, to in-place upgrade to Ubuntu 24.04. 22.04 has some annoying bugs, but I'd rather not invest the time and effort to switch to an entirely different distro unless I really have to.

I honestly didn't care much for Flatpaks at first, but since they've added the ability for them to update they are more.....tolerable. Especially if you want to try out a new browser or something similar.

You'd have to do two upgrades for Ubuntu 22.04, to 23.10 and then to 24.04, wouldn't you?

EDIT: Looks like since 08/29, you can go straight from 22.04 to 24.04.1. Maybe worth a shot after a backup?

Mint (which is Ubuntu based) does well on version to version upgrades (aside from the annoying 3rd party PPA thing), but the one time I tried to upgrade a customized Mint 19 up to Mint 21.1 things got really squirrelly. Never did manage to get it to work, and eventually just did a whole new install. Which made me swear I was going to learn how to use NixOS, but I just absolutely hate it within 15 or 20 minutes of installing it. Every time. So, I guess it will just go on the "never" pile...

 

[manly]

I honestly didn't care much for Flatpaks at first, but since they've added the ability for them to update they are more.....tolerable. Especially if you want to try out a new browser or something similar.

You'd have to do two upgrades for Ubuntu 22.04, to 23.10 and then to 24.04, wouldn't you?

EDIT: Looks like since 08/29, you can go straight from 22.04 to 24.04.1. Maybe worth a shot after a backup?

Mint (which is Ubuntu based) does well on version to version upgrades (aside from the annoying 3rd party PPA thing), but the one time I tried to upgrade a customized Mint 19 up to Mint 21.1 things got really squirrelly. Never did manage to get it to work, and eventually just did a whole new install. Which made me swear I was going to learn how to use NixOS, but I just absolutely hate it within 15 or 20 minutes of installing it. Every time. So, I guess it will just go on the "never" pile...

Recently, Ubuntu kind of has a poor reputation for not being rock solid.* So I will only use their LTS releases, which supposedly should be more quality-focused than the interim releases. In the past, I would be in no rush to upgrade because I'm not doing anything exotic that requires the newest software.

They had to pull the 24.04.1 upgrader for a couple days recently, because it was buggy. I don't believe this kind of thing happens with Debian's major releases, but they are known for being very conservative.

For my current XPS 15, I believe the OS versions path I've taken was:
17.04 beta -> 17.04 -> 17.10 -> 18.04 -> 20.04 -> 22.04

I do backup my Documents directory, but it's not all dialed in as perfectly as it should be. I've been using Linux as my desktop since the late 1990s, with a Mac OS X interregnum from 2006-2017.

* Part of this reputation is the community really HATES Snaps. In comparison, Flatpaks aren't nearly as toxic.