Linux on Intel

[CyclicUser]

Where do the Linux distros stand now?
Do they take full advantage of the current Intel processors with performance and efficiency cores?

 

[Tech Junky]

I use this for my server and run a 12700K. Runs fine. I typically upgrade the kernel weekly though because the distros don't typically upgrade very often. Just put 6.4 the other day and it seems to be faster.

 

[CyclicUser]

Seems I read somewhere that a new kernel was built for the New Intel processors.
I need to research more.

 

[Tech Junky]

There was a revision around the release time for ADL and beyond for the hybrid compute. I could always see all cords and threads though even at launch of ADL. Iirc it was 5.9 at the time. There's been work though since then to keep improving things.

The big contention between Linux and windows was the schedulers. Performance though for me at least seemed to favor Linux even if it wasn't polished yet. I also run a 12700H with windows 11 and that seems to have been improved as well over time.

As it stands today I don't think there's much difference between the two. Linux of course runs much leaner than windows and has better uptime and less bloat.

 

[CyclicUser]

"Linux of course runs much leaner than windows and has better uptime and less bloat."

I cannot believe how intrusive Windows 11 is.
I.m going to run my everyday stuff on my Kubuntu system.
The software I have that only runs on Windows I'll run on my Windows workstation.
Over time I hope to completely switch over to Linux.
If I live that long.

 

[Tech Junky]

If I live that long.

If only devs would code for Linux ports as well. Or msft just dies. I've been straddling both for awhile now as well. Just some stuff that isn't available I Linux w/o wine or a VM. I would have dropped windows long ago if I didn't have to confirm to use what I want to use. I found work arounds for quite a bit over the years but I have a couple of personal apps that don't carry over that I use often. God forbid people have to use their brain a little bit to get things done.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Microsoft has been supporting Linux for several years now. Technically, nothing is stopping them from porting their Office software and other popular apps to Linux, giving users the best of both worlds. They already ported SQL Server to Linux.

Their current strategy is to bring Linux to Windows users via WSL which doesn't solve the problem of having to deal with their ever changing UI.

 

[Tech Junky]

WSL

While this is a move that lets users play with the CLI it still means you're using windows. The issue is windows kernel / bloatware.

Anything server based though for the most part has been available on Linux for ages at this point. The issue lies in the user programs that are either W/A based because coders are lazy or the companies don't see profit potential to make a Linux version.

Most of the apps you would use daily in a work environment can be used with an alternative as long as you can grab things needed for them to work. For instance most of the time it's just the corp certificate to enable things to work properly. The thing that throws users is the chunkier / less polished look. Functionality though is there to work as intended for most things.

 

[CyclicUser]

Continuing my research it looks like Kernel 5.16 was the initial kernel that was specifically designed to utilize the benefits of intel hybrid processors.
I believe Kernel 5.18 utilizes Thread Director and Hardware Feedback Interface.
I currently have Kubuntu 22.04.2 LTS installed on a Core I7 9700K computer. I believe this is Kernel 5.15
I wanted to install Kubuntu on a Core I7 13700. Perhaps I should be looking at AMD processors.
Just getting back into Linux. Getting pointed in the right direction would be helpful.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Perhaps I should be looking at AMD processors.

Ryzen 7800X3D has the lowest power consumption, if that is something important to you: https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d-linux/9

 

[CyclicUser]

I'll look at that.

 

[Tech Junky]

Index of /mainline

I manually update beyond the supported versions. They roll some features into the downstream but, unless you're tied to LTS or live patching you don't see the full benefits. CPU doesn't make a difference at this point when it comes to the kernel version.

 

[CyclicUser]

I'm on my Kubuntu computer with version 22.04.2.
It tells me that my Kernel is 5.19.0-46-generic (64 Bit).
Should be good to go on an Intel I7 13700.
The journey begins.

 

[manly]

I'm on my Kubuntu computer with version 22.04.2.
It tells me that my Kernel is 5.19.0-46-generic (64 Bit).
Should be good to go on an Intel I7 13700.
The journey begins.

Ubuntu 22.04 LTS originally came with 5.15 so you're already running a HWE version, which is fully supported. You don't need a mainline kernel unless you have a specific reason.

Minor tweaks are coming, and will no doubt be standard before the next Ubuntu LTS release in about a year:

Linux 6.5 To Enhance Load Balancing For Intel Hybrid CPUs - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

I don't like to run non-LTS Ubuntu because the 9 months of support is pretty meager. I guess that's fine for a desktop OS, and upgrading isn't difficult or risky, but every 6 months is a pain point IMO.

Microsoft will never port Office to Linux because there is no money to be made in doing so.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Microsoft will never port Office to Linux because there is no money to be made in doing so.

WINE can probably already run MS Office (or at least, I ran it with CrossOver). Microsoft could submit some Office specific patches to the WINE codebase to make it run flawlessly. It would be almost zero effort for them and it may win them some marketshare from LibreOffice/OpenOffice in the Linux world.

 

[manly]

WINE can probably already run MS Office (or at least, I ran it with CrossOver). Microsoft could submit some Office specific patches to the WINE codebase to make it run flawlessly. It would be almost zero effort for them and it may win them some marketshare from LibreOffice/OpenOffice in the Linux world.

I've ran desktop Linux for a very long time (with a Mac OS X interregnum) but there's just not much market share for Office 365 on Linux. You're right they could make it work, and their posture towards Linux is way different under Satya Nadella. Still, the business case just isn't there. Very few organizations run desktop Linux, and fewer would pay for an Office subscription (or license).

 

[Tech Junky]

would pay for an Office

Something is better than zero. If it works on apple then it's not a huge tweak to move to Linux. I suppose it might cut into their license sales on the os side even though their licenses are being sold for $20 all over the place. Then there are some of us that haven't paid for one since our first PC. Now with ai you can just generate one for free.

 

[mxnerd]

There is absolutely zero reason that MS will port Office to Linux

 

[igor_kavinski]

There is absolutely zero reason that MS will port Office to Linux

I bet they have an internal Linux build, maintained in case Elon Musk wakes up one day and decides to pit his own Linux distro against Windows. And don't discount Tim Sweeney and Gabe Newell. Both have been unhappy with Microsoft in the past.

 

[mxnerd]

Linux and Windows are completely different beasts.

Windows API library is immensely HUGE. There is no way WINE group can implement all of them.

Besides, my experience is apps installed via WINE on Linux has their own virtual directories, can't even save files in the Linux native directory on disk.

Business/Government/Schools can't tolerate any small incompatibility. Just forget about it.

Some precision made Excel or Word docs saved on the same machine which print on different printers could result in different output, let alone different OS.

How does Wine provide a compatibility layer for Windows applications on Linux?

Answer: First things first: Wine Is Not an Emulator (Well, atleast not *that* kind of emulator) :P From their FAQ page: "The goal of Wine is a full reimplementation of the Windows API which will make Windows unnecessary." Wine is, what may be defined as, a compatibility layer. Basically, what ...

www.quora.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

There is no way WINE can implement all of them.

WINE can't. WINE-GPT can

 

[manly]

I bet they have an internal Linux build, maintained in case Elon Musk wakes up one day and decides to pit his own Linux distro against Windows. And don't discount Tim Sweeney and Gabe Newell. Both have been unhappy with Microsoft in the past.

Like he woke up one day and decided to buy Twitter?

There is absolutely zero reason that MS will port Office to Linux

Thanks for being the voice of reason. MS has essentially infinite money, but there is no business case for them to launch a supported Office on WINE. The thing about companies this large is they ever only care about large revenue opportunities, with few exceptions.

In this particular case, they would spend more money than they could ever make on Office 365 for Linux. Unless they have a specific reason to be charitable (i.e. antitrust), it's not going to happen. Office Mac is irrelevant because it's largely a separate codebase from Office Windows. So the path from porting from Windows to WINE is actually shorter than from Office Mac.

I've a bit amazed that macOS has 15% global PC market share!

 

[igor_kavinski]

I've a bit amazed that macOS has 15% global PC market share!

Intel better come out with an M1 killer soon.

 

[Goober13]

Continuing my research it looks like Kernel 5.16 was the initial kernel that was specifically designed to utilize the benefits of intel hybrid processors.
I believe Kernel 5.18 utilizes Thread Director and Hardware Feedback Interface.
I currently have Kubuntu 22.04.2 LTS installed on a Core I7 9700K computer. I believe this is Kernel 5.15
I wanted to install Kubuntu on a Core I7 13700. Perhaps I should be looking at AMD processors.
Just getting back into Linux. Getting pointed in the right direction would be helpful.

sudo apt install linux-oem-22.04c
Will install the latest OEM kernal on Ubuntu, Mint and derivatives;
One of my machines is the Asrock Industrial Nuc Box-1260P
Intel 12th Gen i7 1260P.
All running well with the latest oem 6.? kernel on Linux Mint.