Originally posted by: xtknight
1) The bash command line in Linux is much more convenient than the Windows one. What exactly are you doing that requires the command line so much?
2) Because you're probably the type that can't keep himself from getting viruses in Windows?
3) Use Synaptic package manager.
4) Compiling anything isn't rocket science. It shouldn't take you more than a couple hours your first try, and after that 15 minutes per program. You don't even have to do it that often in the first place.
Maybe you should calm down and stop swearing. It's not good for your blood pressure.
Originally posted by: Tick
1) Trying to install a damn ftp server program that actually works.
2) I have never had a machine go down due to a virus or spyware. I have the rare problem with a piece of spyware, but it's usually quick to resolve, and everything gets cleaned out in my once-yearly reinstall to get rid of old software, etc.
3) Great. Another piece of software to hunt down and attempt to install.
4) Why would I want to spend time doing that?
Liunx makes me swear.
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Originally posted by: sonoma1993
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: thehstrybean
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: dighn
1) there are multiple GUI choices, and commandline is still better for some things
2) looks like Vista is taking the same approach. there must be something good about it eh?
3/4) there are many ways of installing. You don't have to compile things. the thing with linux is that there are many distributions with various ways of doing the same thing. I agree that this is annoying to deal with and they really should standardize things so there is only ONE standard.
1) Name 1.
2) XP is perfect, except for the occasional security problem, and lack of DX 10. I think Vista does a lot of stupid things.
3) Exactly. I do not want to hunt around for sh1t. Everything should be obvious, and so stupidly simple and optionless that a 6 year old could do it.
1. KDE, Gnome, BlackBox...should I keep going?
2. XP is perfect? My XP box crashes like no other and is slow. My ubuntu rig is flawless. To each his own, I guess...
3. I know 6 year olds that use linux...we installed it on some computers that little kids use in the school where I work, and they love it. Edubuntu has great games...
I guess Tick just hates freebies...especially freebie OSs...
1) I meant name one advantage to a command line
2) I have no problems with XP. I get maybe a crash a month, and it's plenty fast.
3) Have any of those 6 year olds tried installing a program?
1. Command line lets me use a powerful interface for editing files, like network configs and such...but that's just me...I'm not a heavy user, but I customize a lot...
Look at http://leland.info/2007/01/27/linux-101/
What, exactly, would I want to customize? I'd rather things just work correctly right out of the proverbial box.
you customize linux to fit your needs, pretty much for the things you need it todo.
Exactly. I don't need a media center in a network admin box, the same way I don't need novel clients and network utilities on my media center at home...
I'd rather all my boxes have a monolithic OS with everything I could ever want. HDD space is cheap.
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: xtknight
1) The bash command line in Linux is much more convenient than the Windows one. What exactly are you doing that requires the command line so much?
2) Because you're probably the type that can't keep himself from getting viruses in Windows?
3) Use Synaptic package manager.
4) Compiling anything isn't rocket science. It shouldn't take you more than a couple hours your first try, and after that 15 minutes per program. You don't even have to do it that often in the first place.
Maybe you should calm down and stop swearing. It's not good for your blood pressure.
1) Trying to install a damn ftp server program that actually works.
2) I have never had a machine go down due to a virus or spyware. I have the rare problem with a piece of spyware, but it's usually quick to resolve, and everything gets cleaned out in my once-yearly reinstall to get rid of old software, etc.
3) Great. Another piece of software to hunt down and attempt to install.
4) Why would I want to spend time doing that?
Liunx makes me swear.
Originally posted by: wolfman11
Wow.
This is the biggest waste of time string of posts I've read here in a long time...so we've got three pages of "I don't want to learn an OS". "I AM smart, I get A's in Calc 3". "Linux sucks".
Get over it already. It's been well established Linux is not for you.
However, you do have to realize how totally ridiculous you sound when you say you "never had to learn Windows". Of course you did (you "find things with either a quick search, or fumbling around" - if this isn't learning please tell me what it is). Use of a computer is not encoded in your DNA.
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: xtknight
1) The bash command line in Linux is much more convenient than the Windows one. What exactly are you doing that requires the command line so much?
2) Because you're probably the type that can't keep himself from getting viruses in Windows?
3) Use Synaptic package manager.
4) Compiling anything isn't rocket science. It shouldn't take you more than a couple hours your first try, and after that 15 minutes per program. You don't even have to do it that often in the first place.
Maybe you should calm down and stop swearing. It's not good for your blood pressure.
1) Trying to install a damn ftp server program that actually works.
2) I have never had a machine go down due to a virus or spyware. I have the rare problem with a piece of spyware, but it's usually quick to resolve, and everything gets cleaned out in my once-yearly reinstall to get rid of old software, etc.
3) Great. Another piece of software to hunt down and attempt to install.
4) Why would I want to spend time doing that?
Liunx makes me swear.
Originally posted by: Tick
Well aparently I'm stupid. 6 hours later and I'm still not able to install a functioning FTP server program. Also, I never had to read anything to use windows, I've always been able to jump right in, and find things with either a quick search, or fumbling around. This is not the case with linux. Also, I can't even seem to find an equivelent to my computer in ubuntu. Also, I have no desire to LEARN an OS. I never had to learn windows.
Edit: And linux IS harder. Anytime I have to use a command line, it instantly becomes 10x as hard.
Edit: Oh, and Ubuntu guide sucks. I installed proftpd like they said. And then what? How do I even launch the program? Where is the GUI? How do I change options?????
Originally posted by: xtknight
Setting up an FTP server isn't that hard.
- Grab one of your choice from the huge repositories.
- Read up on some 'quick start' docs or even the manual to learn how to set it up. There are HOWTO documents spread widely about.
- If you're still having trouble, ask for help in an IRC channel or one of the forums, of which Linux has many.
Sure editing conf files might not be as easy as clicking through a GUI. In that case grab an FTP server with a GUI. GProFTPd is in the repositories, it's a front-end for the proftpd server which is a very common one.
Originally posted by: Tick
I tried GProFTPd. I spent 2 hours with it. I gave up.
Originally posted by: magomago
Originally posted by: Tick
Well aparently I'm stupid. 6 hours later and I'm still not able to install a functioning FTP server program. Also, I never had to read anything to use windows, I've always been able to jump right in, and find things with either a quick search, or fumbling around. This is not the case with linux. Also, I can't even seem to find an equivelent to my computer in ubuntu. Also, I have no desire to LEARN an OS. I never had to learn windows.
Edit: And linux IS harder. Anytime I have to use a command line, it instantly becomes 10x as hard.
Edit: Oh, and Ubuntu guide sucks. I installed proftpd like they said. And then what? How do I even launch the program? Where is the GUI? How do I change options?????
Ask Ubuntuforums - check to see if they have a guide for an FTP server, they probably do.
Checking ubuntuguide, there ARE directions right below how to install proftpd on HOW to configure it. I've never had a need to setup an FTP server, so I have no idea with this stuff. But read the stuff to configure it there. Stop freaking out right now about a GUI. I'm sure there are GUI alternatives, but I don't look for that.
And YES you have had to learn Windows whether you believe it or not. The difference is that you have been using it so long, that you are accustomed to it entirely. You say you sell PCs on the side, so its clear you constantly are installing windows, dealing with programs to get on that machine, having to make sure drivers work and troubleshoot them...its clear you have a lot of experience with Windows. Guess what? Too bad most of that is NOT applicable for Linux. Just because you feel n00b all the sudden dealing with Linux doesn't mean that"its hard" or that "Windows is easy". You have a LOT of experience with Windows, and none of Linux...what do you expect!
The fact that you can't find a "My Computer" in Linux is proof of that...don't think Linux is Windows - because you will get mad when things "won't work like they do in windows". Stop getting frustrated because you don't know all that much. Furthermore, it shows you reallllly never read about Linux - I suggest spending 10 minutes to get familiar with the file structure. You never ALWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYS knew that most programs were installed in "Crogram Files" - you learned that, so you might as well learn how Linux does it.
In as far as you should be concerned - everything should pretty much occur in your "Home Folder". Click on "PLACES" and then go to "HOME FOLDER"....save all your sh|t there. IN your home folder, there is a folder called "DESKTOP" and that is where everything that appears on the physical desktop is located (at least in Gnome ).
If you want to access your CD drives, put in a CD. If you INSIST on where they are mounted - it is in /media (or otherwise /mnt in other distributions)
I really can't wait till drag or nothinman or n0cmonkey contribute
Originally posted by: Tick
I think the biggest difference is that it's easy to learn windows by fumbling about, and not so with linux. It's very hard to fumble through a command line. It's also very hard to fumble when everything needs to be run as root or sudo to work.
Hmm, I use the command line all the time on my Windows XP and linux box. I use the command line much more on my linux boxes because it is so much more powerful. It's nice to be able to just ssh into a remote server over 56k modem connection and get everything I need. Microsoft says they have improved their command line capabilities with Vista, but I haven't seen it yet.Originally posted by: Tick
Linux SUCKS. Why? Because:
1) Command lines/Lack of GUI's
Why the fvck would I want to use a command line? I have a modern computer, capable of displaying color and icons. Why should their be a command line? And further, why doesn't everything have a gui? Gui's are good, and easy, and don't require me to learn commands. Yey for Gui's.
Again this is one of the greatest features of linux. It helps make you think twice before breaking your box and helps prevent hackers and virus from gaining admin access to your computer. This is another thing that Microsoft has lagged WAY behind in, but is supposed to be remedied in Vista with their "Protected Access" or something like that.2)Root/sudo is stupid.
Why on earth should I have to deal with either using sudo or running as root to actually use my programs? I still can't get a lot of programs to run because they keep whining about permissions. What ever happened to good old admin accounts? Why does sudo break everything?
Wow, if their is one killer desktop feature for linux, it's the package management system, the best of which is apt-get for Debian and Ubuntu. What could be easier than typing "sudo apt-get install packagename?" No hunting for install files around the internet or going to a store to buy software. No clicking through endless stupid questions. No searching for the latest versions. Just one little command and everything is taken care of. Windows doesn't have anything that even comes CLOSE to this sort of ease-of-use. And if you want a gui, just open Synaptic - just as easy, but with gui-goodness.3)Apt-get
Now this is just plane stupid. Why is it so damn hard to install anything? I have a desktop, why not do it the way it should be done? I get the installer icon, click on it, press forward a few times, wait, and have a nice icon on my desktop. Why isn't it done this way?
I admin about 8 linux servers and a linux desktop at home and I have not compiled a single program on any of them. These days compiling is optional for if you have some special need. For general use it is not necessary, but it's there if you need it (for some reason) which is more than what is typical on Windows systems.4)Compiling
Again, stupid. Just give me a fvcking installer program. None of this compiling sh1t.
Considering that typical OSes in 1990 were stable, feature-rich, multi-tasking systems until Microsoft came along and showed that a buggy, crashing, stripped-down OS can sell with enough propaganda and eye-candy; I think I'll stick with Linux.Come on Linux. The rest of the world has moved beyond 1990. It's time for you to do so also. I'm giving up and installing windows.
Originally posted by: Tick
I think the biggest difference is that it's easy to learn windows by fumbling about, and not so with linux. It's very hard to fumble through a command line.
I wet my feet with linux by "stumbling around" the Gnome and KDE interfaces. And that was before Ubuntu came about and practically eliminated the need for the command line. However, as I started to understand how things worked, I did discover much easier and faster ways of doing things from the command line. It was the same with Windows.
As was mentioned in here somewhere, at some point you had to learn Windows just like you have to learn Linux now. The difference is that you started with a clean slate on Windows, but now you have to "break old Windows habits" and reprogram your thinking to learn Linux. One isn't easier or harder or worse or better than the other, just different.
The fact that you would criticize apt-get shows this. Once you realize how apt-get works, you wouldn't want any changes to it, because it is easiest and most convenient way to install software that exists. If linux distros decided to abandon the apt-get way and do things the Windows way would be taking a HUGE step backwards.
It's the same on Windows... even more so. Limited accounts are nigh impossible to work on without running into problems that need admin access. And if you want the equivalent of logging in as admin on linux, then log in as root. It's the same thing as on Windows, just with a different name.It's also very hard to fumble when everything needs to be run as root or sudo to work.
Originally posted by: Brazen
What could be easier than typing "sudo apt-get install packagename?"
Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Originally posted by: Brazen
What could be easier than typing "sudo apt-get install packagename?"
The answer to your question is simple: how did you know that command in the first place? When I first tried Linux, I couldn't get anything done simply because it required detailed knowledge of commands that I couldn't possibly know without being told. root? ls? compile? How the hell am I supposed to know these? Even simple things like logging in and out are difficult if you don't know the commands.
The point the OP was trying to make is that you can give a Windows or Mac OS computer to some idiot who has never used a computer before, and they can learn things by poking around. You can learn Windows or Mac all by yourself, but you can't learn Linux unless you have text books and a large support group.
Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Originally posted by: Brazen
What could be easier than typing "sudo apt-get install packagename?"
The answer to your question is simple: how did you know that command in the first place? When I first tried Linux, I couldn't get anything done simply because it required detailed knowledge of commands that I couldn't possibly know without being told. root? ls? compile? How the hell am I supposed to know these? Even simple things like logging in and out are difficult if you don't know the commands.
The point the OP was trying to make is that you can give a Windows or Mac OS computer to some idiot who has never used a computer before, and they can learn things by poking around. You can learn Windows or Mac all by yourself, but you can't learn Linux unless you have text books and a large support group.
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Originally posted by: Brazen
What could be easier than typing "sudo apt-get install packagename?"
The answer to your question is simple: how did you know that command in the first place? When I first tried Linux, I couldn't get anything done simply because it required detailed knowledge of commands that I couldn't possibly know without being told. root? ls? compile? How the hell am I supposed to know these? Even simple things like logging in and out are difficult if you don't know the commands.
The point is, nothing's hard if you put forth the effort.
Anybody can type "sudo apt-get install program". It's very easy to do.
Where did we find it in the first place? We read the many beginners guides on the net for Ubuntu. We came to know this command because we saw it so much and then became curious about what exactly it does. We learned that it installed a program from a big database, and now we know how it can be of great benefit to us in the real world. We also learned that we could browse that database by using a package called Synaptic.
This is a good place to start: <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html">https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html</a></a>
The point the OP was trying to make is that you can give a Windows or Mac OS computer to some idiot who has never used a computer before, and they can learn things by poking around. You can learn Windows or Mac all by yourself, but you can't learn Linux unless you have text books and a large support group.
You can do some things in Linux by poking around too. If you just want to browse the internet, do e-mail, or instant message you're all set. If you want to get your printer working in Windows (and it's not supported by default), good luck poking around doing that when you don't know what a "driver" is. But honestly if people have no desire to learn then they have nobody to blame but themselves. I'm not blaming my oven because I burnt my cookies. You can poke around and get by if you want to do primitive things. You can't expect to keep doing that if you want to take full advantage of the system.
Originally posted by: Tick
You keep missing the point! I shouldn't have to read anything to use an OS! I didn't have to read anything to use windows, linux should be the same way! I should be able to do anything without having to consult a guide or ask someone! I shouldn't have to know that I need the apt-get command to install ******! It should be all obvious!
Originally posted by: yuchai
First question to OP: Name one valuable skill that you have that did not require you to spend time reading about or have anyone teach you.
Second question to OP: When you started using Windows, did you have to install it yourself from scratch and also had to setup an FTP server right away?
Third question to OP: When "fumbling with Windows" to figure things out, did you end up with an unusable Windows installation at least once?
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Tick
You keep missing the point! I shouldn't have to read anything to use an OS! I didn't have to read anything to use windows, linux should be the same way! I should be able to do anything without having to consult a guide or ask someone! I shouldn't have to know that I need the apt-get command to install ******! It should be all obvious!
You shouldn't have to go through driving school to learn to drive either. Why don't you just go out there on the roads and see how you fare? Just screw with your car until it starts and screw with it until it stops. You guys crack me up.
All the help you need has been offered to you. You are only here to complain. You have not bothered to read any of the beginner's guides and you have not bothered to ask for help from those who could help you.
Originally posted by: Tick
1) Cooking. Learned by trial and error. Think I've made maybe 2 unedible meals ever.