Linux SUCKS and should never be used by human beings.

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,077
136
This thread has gotta be nothing more than flamebait. That said, I have to admit that putting Kubuntu (Edgy 64bit) on my laptop was the best choice ever. There is absolutely no lost functionality using Linux and to be honest, I just like it better. Make more sense to me, seems more intuitive, and like others, I just really like having a command line sometimes. I honestly, even in Windows, try to use my mouse as little as possible, it's just faster with a keyboard and keyboard shortcuts.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
"Get[ting] by just fine" is hardly a stirring description of the advantages. If the benefits of proprietary software are questionable, after forty years of evolution of the business model, should we just accept that the open source model is better, after ten years of little success?

What do you mean 'little success'?

Sure 2nd place isn't the best place to be, but it has pretty much killed Unix, except for the very high end. It's inevitable at this point. This isn't something that Microsoft has ever been able to come close do doing even though they've been trying since NT was originally produced.

Microsoft, and in turn the desktop arena (which they keep tight control), is the only real major holdout.
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
13
81
www.markbetz.net
What do you mean 'little success'?

Sure 2nd place isn't the best place to be, but it has pretty much killed Unix, except for the very high end. It's inevitable at this point. This isn't something that Microsoft has ever been able to come close do doing even though they've been trying since NT was originally produced.

Microsoft, and in turn the desktop arena (which they keep tight control), is the only real major holdout.

I guess it depends on how you define success. Open source has definitely impacted the software world, in lots of ways. But then free, collaboratively developed software has been impacting the business for a long time, since way before the current open source "movement" and it's ideological undertones. And that's what I really meant by "success". For at least some pieces of the FOSS community (I would argue the majority of it), it isn't about just writing great software; it's also about "winning" over an economic model that they are ideologically opposed to. There's been little to no success on that front, nor will there be, and the desire for it is one of the things that keeps me from taking the "movement" seriously. One of the posters above mentions the "right way forward for human progress." I mean, please, give me a break. It's farking software, and to date there is a lot of evidence that the "right way forward" for progress is to write it and sell it in the old-fashioned way.

I also would not say that Linux or open source has killed off unix. Is that what you meant, or did I misread it? It's an evolution of unix.
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
19,586
4
81
Originally posted by: drag
"Get[ting] by just fine" is hardly a stirring description of the advantages. If the benefits of proprietary software are questionable, after forty years of evolution of the business model, should we just accept that the open source model is better, after ten years of little success?

What do you mean 'little success'?

Sure 2nd place isn't the best place to be, but it has pretty much killed Unix, except for the very high end. It's inevitable at this point. This isn't something that Microsoft has ever been able to come close do doing even though they've been trying since NT was originally produced.

Microsoft, and in turn the desktop arena (which they keep tight control), is the only real major holdout.

people dont give it credit because its not popular on the desktop, without realizing where it *is* being used.

i spent an hour and a half getting my DSL activated with AT&T last week after the first person i called was *certain* i couldnt use their DSL with "the linux"

i could have set her on fire. if some numbnuts had set up the manual-activation webpage with java buttons that *work* i would have been online in under 20 minutes.

this was after cancelling the tech appointment they set up to have someone install and set up my service because they insisted i needed a technician for it

and thats a completely different rant.
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
19,586
4
81
Originally posted by: stash
The Linux. That's awesome. Phear teh Linux!!

not awesome, i took and HOUR AND A HALF with these people. the second guy i talked to had to create my account himself (which i immediately changed) after "getting approval"

which i think means "a cigarette break" or something like that.


anyway

im not going back to windows, especially now that my dsl *does* work
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
your first clue should have been Bill and many of his friends have Billions of dollars a piece and the 54,000 linux ditros out there can barley be given away... As always the cream rises to the top.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
your first clue should have been Bill and many of his friends have Billions of dollars a piece and the 54,000 linux ditros out there can barley be given away... As always the cream rises to the top.

So does the scum.

So when I see signs saying 'over 99billion served' then I am safe in the knowledge that Mcdonalds is the best resturant ever made.
 

LesterOfPuppets

Junior Member
Aug 15, 2006
15
0
0
Ok, what is that reason? It's hard to use so they can be elitest by using it? I'm sorry, their is no ****** way it should take 6 hours for even a rank noob to set up a fvcking ftp server program. The same task should take like 12 minutes with windows, and requires no knowledge of the OS.

(sorry I didn't make it past the first page, but...)

Hehehhee. That's the funniest think I've ever read. All the talk about compiling and command line to get FTP server running. I like to manage users and control their ftp acces via command line, but getting ftpd going is one of the easiest things to do with mainstream Linux distros. High larious.

 

LesterOfPuppets

Junior Member
Aug 15, 2006
15
0
0
Still on page 3 of this one, and still laughing uncontrollably. I'm thinking Tick shouldn't be trusted with an FTP server on any platform.

I'm more of an SSHD guy myself...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: drag
Originally posted by: Zebo
your first clue should have been Bill and many of his friends have Billions of dollars a piece and the 54,000 linux ditros out there can barley be given away... As always the cream rises to the top.

So does the scum.

So when I see signs saying 'over 99billion served' then I am safe in the knowledge that Mcdonalds is the best resturant ever made.

Your anaolgy would be true if MS OS wasnt a premium charged OS more expensive than linux, Solaris, Be, OsX, etc and still dominates. Windows is like a world where Ruth Chris outsells McDonalds 1000:1 dispite the massive price premium, thats how good it is.
 

LesterOfPuppets

Junior Member
Aug 15, 2006
15
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Your anaolgy would be true if MS OS wasnt a premium charged OS more expensive than linux, Solaris, Be, OsX, etc and still dominates. Windows is like a world where Ruth Chris outsells McDonalds 1000:1 dispite the massive price premium, thats how good it is.

I think Ruth's Chris vs Sizzler would be a more apt comparo. Nonetheless, you can pay a LOT for Linux with support, if you'd like.

If I'm playing video games, MS is the Ruth's Chris. If I'm running a server, Linux is the Ruth's Chris.

 

REMF

Member
Dec 6, 2002
141
0
0
Originally posted by: montypythizzle
hmm what is the MOST GUI filled linux?
probably opensuse with YAST.

i use suse 10.1 with the KDE desktop every day on the work notebook, brilliant.
 

REMF

Member
Dec 6, 2002
141
0
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Binary drivers on a free operating system are stupid, and I wish they'd be removed permenantly. It's an affront to consumers everywhere.

fortunately for you, there are completely 'free' linux operating systems for you to choose from.

for myself, i will happily see distro's ship with binary drivers until that happy day when graphics vendors feel they can open source their drivers without getting caught up in patent infringement litigation.

 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: drag
Originally posted by: Zebo
your first clue should have been Bill and many of his friends have Billions of dollars a piece and the 54,000 linux ditros out there can barley be given away... As always the cream rises to the top.

So does the scum.

So when I see signs saying 'over 99billion served' then I am safe in the knowledge that Mcdonalds is the best resturant ever made.

Your anaolgy would be true if MS OS wasnt a premium charged OS more expensive than linux, Solaris, Be, OsX, etc and still dominates. Windows is like a world where Ruth Chris outsells McDonalds 1000:1 dispite the massive price premium, thats how good it is.

I have no idea what Ruth Chris is.

Generally speaking food-wise the most healthy and tasty food comes from my grandma. It's free, too.

But your insane if your going to tell me that Microsoft got were it did today because it's software is of the highest quality.

I mean all you have to do is look at something like Outlook vs Thunderbird to see how obvious a misconception it is.

For example my company replaced all the Eudora and Outlook email clients with Thunderbird. It's free software, it runs on Linux (which the administrators prefer), it's safer from viruses, it uses less resources.

Also it saves a lot of people a lot of time and effort. Before the switch the main tech would get several questions a week regarding email and troubles people were having with it. Months after installing thunderbird on everybody's machines he only got one tech support phone call from a guy who couldn't figure out his email client.

And not-so-ironicly that guy was the only person left in the company still using Outlook. He was a exec from a different company that got bought out and he absolutely refused to use anything else.
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: REMF
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Binary drivers on a free operating system are stupid, and I wish they'd be removed permenantly. It's an affront to consumers everywhere.

fortunately for you, there are completely 'free' linux operating systems for you to choose from.

for myself, i will happily see distro's ship with binary drivers until that happy day when graphics vendors feel they can open source their drivers without getting caught up in patent infringement litigation.

The video card makers are the ones engaging in patent litigation. They like it. They don't want it to go away. Nvidia likes it's propriatory drivers, it's how they have stayed ahead of other companies.

For everybody else it's a huge headache.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
The question is whether access to source code makes it easier to find and exploit holes. I'd say it is obvious that it does.

But history doesn't seem to support that. Closed software has had just as many exploits, if not more, than open software over the years.

I don't think any of us are in doubt as to why Oracle, IBM, Sun, HP, etc., support Open Source as vigorously as they do, are we?

If you think it's to fight MS then you're probably wrong. Linux has been replacing commercial unix boxes much more than Windows over the years because the transition is easier. And IBM, HP and Sun are all losing business for their closed software by supporting Linux.

There are some areas where security by obscurity works very well.

It works as well as WEP does for wifi, it'll probably protect you from the casual driver by but that's about it.

I haven't had a closed source driver kill my XP box in a very long time, so what's the point?

Well I bet you've never had an OSS driver kill your XP box before either, right? =)

If we're just talking about Linux on the desktop, then it's understandable why you guys would want drivers open sourced, since that is one way to at least get drivers.

We're talking about Linux in general, it's just that the server end of the spectrum is already almost 100% covered by GPL'd drivers. OSS drivers are the only way to get good long-term support for the hardware, manufacturers have already proven that many times by discontinuing support for something and leaving everyone who owns it out to dry.

There was one recently where someone fairly well-known in FOSS circles complained about his open source forums being repeatedly hacked. In that particular case it's likely that having the source proprietary would have prevented the attacks, because they were simple mischief that someone would probably not have devoted a huge amount of time to.

All that proves is that we need better programmers over all. And forums are one of the best examples because everyone seems to want to write their own and with the popularity of PHP and ASP.NET it's too easy to get one started without having any clue at all. But without knowing what exploit was used you can't determine if having the source would have helped, the forums could have been doing something really stupid like having a URL or POST data with admin=0/1 in it to determine admins.

Hah, you mean that if a company doesn't rely on an open source model for its business it will be slammed by people who prefer an open source model, and so they should adopt an open source model to prevent that?

You don't have to reimplement your entire company's business practices, but if you're going to release Linux software, especially kernel modules, you've got to either GPL your software or be prepared to defend your decision a lot.

What does "community minded" have to do with anything? The only community a business needs to care about from a commercial perspective is the community of its paying customers.

Spoken like a true business man, but if you're going to spit in the face of the ideals of those you're trying to sell to, don't expect your products to be very popular.

Yes, because there is no inherent standard of value. A thing is worth what the consumer thinks it is worth at the time of consumption. At the moment when someone wants a hot, fast, cheap meal McDonalds might very well make the best hamburger in the world.

Of course there is a standard and McDonald's food is barely above the "edible" line on that standard. Sure you'll eat it if you're hungry enough, but that doesn't make it good.

Secondly, all of the major innovators of the last twenty years, whether Lotus, or Quicken, or Adobe, or whomever, have taken advantage of Microsoft's success, not the other way around.

And most of them have paid the price in one way or another, how many people under 25 have actually heard of Lotus? MS lets them be successful for as long as they don't want to be in that market, once MS decides to go that route you need to start looking for alternative forms of income.

Thirdly, nobody has to visit a dozen websites for drivers after installing XP. I have exactly three pieces of hardware that require drivers on this machine: the Audigy, the TV Wonder, and the 7600GT. Sound and Video work out of the box on XP. The TV Wonder works out of the box on Vista.

Of course they do with Vista, but you were talking about XP and in a few years Vista will be in the same position anyway. The only thing that works out of the box on this machine in XP is the hard disk and I'm actually surprised that did since it's SATA.

There's been little to no success on that front, nor will there be, and the desire for it is one of the things that keeps me from taking the "movement" seriously.

Only in the US, in the rest of the world Linux is making much better progress. In 15 years Linux/Windows will probably another case of Metric/Imperial measurement.
 

xSauronx

Lifer
Jul 14, 2000
19,586
4
81
Originally posted by: drag
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: drag
Originally posted by: Zebo
your first clue should have been Bill and many of his friends have Billions of dollars a piece and the 54,000 linux ditros out there can barley be given away... As always the cream rises to the top.

So does the scum.

So when I see signs saying 'over 99billion served' then I am safe in the knowledge that Mcdonalds is the best resturant ever made.

Your anaolgy would be true if MS OS wasnt a premium charged OS more expensive than linux, Solaris, Be, OsX, etc and still dominates. Windows is like a world where Ruth Chris outsells McDonalds 1000:1 dispite the massive price premium, thats how good it is.

I have no idea what Ruth Chris is.

Generally speaking food-wise the most healthy and tasty food comes from my grandma. It's free, too.

But your insane if your going to tell me that Microsoft got were it did today because it's software is of the highest quality.

I mean all you have to do is look at something like Outlook vs Thunderbird to see how obvious a misconception it is.

For example my company replaced all the Eudora and Outlook email clients with Thunderbird. It's free software, it runs on Linux (which the administrators prefer), it's safer from viruses, it uses less resources.

Also it saves a lot of people a lot of time and effort. Before the switch the main tech would get several questions a week regarding email and troubles people were having with it. Months after installing thunderbird on everybody's machines he only got one tech support phone call from a guy who couldn't figure out his email client.

And not-so-ironicly that guy was the only person left in the company still using Outlook. He was a exec from a different company that got bought out and he absolutely refused to use anything else.

my mother refused firefox and thunderbird for a long time

i kept having to clean off the work computer, and their home laptops because her and my father didnt keep their antivirus up to date.

one day when they were out of town, i opened firefox and thunderbird on the work pc at my dads business, imported all their bookmarks and contacts, and removed every immediate trace of the microsoft stuff they had been using

they liked it, and it saved me several hours a month

she converted her home stuff as well, and a number of her friends
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: REMF
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Binary drivers on a free operating system are stupid, and I wish they'd be removed permenantly. It's an affront to consumers everywhere.

fortunately for you, there are completely 'free' linux operating systems for you to choose from.

for myself, i will happily see distro's ship with binary drivers until that happy day when graphics vendors feel they can open source their drivers without getting caught up in patent infringement litigation.

Don't make poor excuses for companies unless you can post PROOF that what you say is true.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: Nothinman
The question is whether access to source code makes it easier to find and exploit holes. I'd say it is obvious that it does.

But history doesn't seem to support that. Closed software has had just as many exploits, if not more, than open software over the years.

With the recent popularity of bad PHP I'd be careful with that statement.
 

KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
4,451
9
81
www.dogsonacid.com
Originally posted by: Tick
Originally posted by: tfinch2
You just suck at it.

And what's plane stupid?

Using an OS should not be a skill.

LOL.... so true.... I have problems with Ubuntu all the time. Will try to work through them regardless, but honestly, they seem like problems that should have been fixed with an update or somethin. Why do I need to search for hours and enter in command line code to enable word wrap. WTF?

Dapper Drake also does many things so well that I love it/hate it. Your rant has validity though.....
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: Nothinman
The question is whether access to source code makes it easier to find and exploit holes. I'd say it is obvious that it does.

But history doesn't seem to support that. Closed software has had just as many exploits, if not more, than open software over the years.

With the recent popularity of bad PHP I'd be careful with that statement.

how many core PHP problems are there (i.e. the php code itself) versus how many home grown PHP devs don't understand what they are doing and don't learn to code correctly.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |