Live the lie, fight the truth...

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Klixxer

I am not scared of WWIII, we'll all die eventually anyway, if something good comes out of it, it's ok with me.

You must have a death wish. That's an assinine statement if I'v ever heard one. Worthy of being put in someone's sig.

I think he's stating that our country is hellbent on starting WWIII and that he's powerless against it. Maybe said war will wake up the people of America to the truth, albeit a very hard lesson to learn.

Or maybe he's just a crazy leftist idiot.

 

[Gaard]

or maybe a sh*t-eating cockroach from outerspace, eh ntdz?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Klixxer

I am not scared of WWIII, we'll all die eventually anyway, if something good comes out of it, it's ok with me.

You must have a death wish. That's an assinine statement if I'v ever heard one. Worthy of being put in someone's sig.

I am an old tired soldier who has spent his entire life fighting so that others can benefit, if my death would mean a better world for my children, then i have no problem with dying.

We ALL die you know, including you.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Well, 1EZduzit, they have detained at least one guy in such a fashion, Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen. Even went so far as to ship him to Syria, his birthplace, to have him "interrogated" there... They figured he knew a guy who knew a guy who might have terrorist "links", whatever that means... The Syrians cut him loose after only a year, since they concluded he had no terrorist ties, which wasn't the Admin's doing, at all.

I have to agree with Klixxer to a certain extent, but to paint what's happening as universal among the US population is unfair. Many of us fight this tide of stupidity on a regular basis. I agree, however, that an unfortunate level of complacency among some and a tendency to think with the head on the penis rather than the head on the shoulders has left many vulnerable to the Bushist propaganda.

Hopefully, the tide can be turned prior to any more truly monstrous events.

I'm sure some Muslims have been treated unjustly. However, just because a few have been treated badly doesn't mean (to me) that we should just quite detaining people who are high risk. We have to remember that, like it or not, we are at war. I don't think the majority of people who will have to fight this war think it's worth their lives. Enlistment (and re-enlistment) is down. Fighting age people were standing in line to fight after Pearl Harbor but we don't see that kind of commitment for this war. It's sad to see the chickenhawk eliteists sending people to do what they weren't willing to do when it was their turn and stopping the ones who have completed their commitment from getting out of the service. I guess what do you expect from an eliteist who can't speak the English language as well as a German like Klixxer can?? LOL!

It's sad to see all the lives on both sides being lost. The Muslims will probably not forget/forgive us, at least not in our lifetimes. They've been fighting with the Jews for how many hundreds of years? If possible I don't want to see our relationship with them deteriorate (sp?) to that point.

I agree, Klixxer has a good point. I just don't think that on a scale of what the possible consequenses of not profiling them could be that it is important point right now. If I were of ME descent I would expect to be detained. I would just be happy if some basket case didn't want to take me out and behead me!

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Don't read this forum much? Google Gitmo, psychological torture and even physical torture.

I just googled him. He's an enemy combatant, not someone being detained going through customs. That's a whole different deal IMO. It seems to me that it's another case of "erring on the side of caution", but there being detained for an "extended" period of time. I think they are more like POW's then anything else. What do you do with people caught fighting against you in an "undeclared" war?? What's your suggestion?


Edit: I don't think it's right, but i don't know what to do about it either?

Ah, so the enemy is basically anyone, including you?

I have a friend who was released after being held for a couple of years, his crime? He was Arabic.

A semite, just like me, if i got a decent tan i could probably be mistaken for an arab too, perhaps bee imprisoned for just being an arab is good enough for you, but it SURE AS FVCK ISN'T FOR ME!

You are a complete and utter idiot if you think that being held indefinently because of your race is "erring on the side of cauton" and right!

You do not deserve the freedoms you have, people like you are what is WRONG with this world.

How about my friend, he was not caught fighting, he was just there, but i guess being a "beloved patriot" is enough, right?

I propose the US get the fvck out of the ME and STAY OUT, spend the money on securing the borders and stop meddling in other countries affairs, i know you think it is because they hate your freedoms but it really isn't, the reason the US is hated is because of the meddling in the ME and all the pain it has caused, supporting ONE dictator on one side and providing him with the means then supporting the other side, supporting a kingdom of opression and so on.

9/11 was the result of a long held policy that ignored the entire population of the ME, of course terrorism is never right but you HAD to expect SOME kind of reaction.

Calm down Klix. Name calling isn't going to change my mind or anyone elses who might read this either. So one guy that you know of was unjustly held. That's unfortunate, but shet happens. Ask the poor families who lost people in 9/11 about what's fair. I guess that isn't your problem is it.

I wasn't for the invasion of Iraq. I thought it was a war we couldn't win and it looks like I was right. I just wonder how much money we will spend and how many people will lose their lives before we can get out of there? Unfortunatley GWB won the election. He is hell bent to waste this countries resources on this insanity. I just want to get our troops home without making the matter any worse then it is if possible.

I just can't feel sorry for a population that allowed terrorists to not only roam around freely, but to run training camps. SCR3W THEM AND THE CAMEL THEY RODE IN ON. I could care less how miserable their lives are. I think we should have spent all the money we've wasted in Bush's Folly on building alternative energy infrastructure and research. Without the US demand for oil, things would be different. Those ME people could just eat all their oil as far as I care.

You and people like you are what is so very wrong with this world, "THE CAMEL THEY RODE IN ON"?

Don't let me delay you for your KKK meeting though, you fvcking racist scumbag.

This is the last response you will ever get from me, i am thouroughly disgust.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Klixxer

I am not scared of WWIII, we'll all die eventually anyway, if something good comes out of it, it's ok with me.

You must have a death wish. That's an assinine statement if I'v ever heard one. Worthy of being put in someone's sig.

I think he's stating that our country is hellbent on starting WWIII and that he's powerless against it. Maybe said war will wake up the people of America to the truth, albeit a very hard lesson to learn.

Or maybe he's just a crazy leftist idiot.

Where i live, the right are known as neo-nazis, you are right, i don't belong to that group.

How far right are you? as far right as 1EZduit?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Klixxer

I am not scared of WWIII, we'll all die eventually anyway, if something good comes out of it, it's ok with me.

You must have a death wish. That's an assinine statement if I'v ever heard one. Worthy of being put in someone's sig.

I am an old tired soldier who has spent his entire life fighting so that others can benefit, if my death would mean a better world for my children, then i have no problem with dying.

We ALL die you know, including you.

I would prefer to die of natural causes, if possible. I enjoy playing with my grandaughter and would like the opportunity to play with some more grandchildren in the future. As far as a better world is concerend, I don't believe for a minute that WW3 would acheive that goal.

Me, I'm just an old, salt of the earth, common sense kind of a guy. I cherish high ideals and strive for them, but I have enough cynicism in me and am enough of a realist to realize that compromise is eventually inevitable.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Klixxer

I am not scared of WWIII, we'll all die eventually anyway, if something good comes out of it, it's ok with me.

You must have a death wish. That's an assinine statement if I'v ever heard one. Worthy of being put in someone's sig.

I think he's stating that our country is hellbent on starting WWIII and that he's powerless against it. Maybe said war will wake up the people of America to the truth, albeit a very hard lesson to learn.

Or maybe he's just a crazy leftist idiot.

Where i live, the right are known as neo-nazis, you are right, i don't belong to that group.

How far right are you? as far right as 1EZduit?

LMAO! Me, far right?!? I consider myself to be middle-of-the-road, but I'm pretty much bent to the left on most issues. Mainly because this country is way too far to the right already IMO. While the terrorism threat is totally exagerated, it is still a valid threat, I mean made 2 attacks on the WTC right? How about the school in Russia? It goes on and on. Until the ME people start acting like responsible people and helping to stop the terrorism instead of blaming us for all their troubles then I reserve the right to protect myself by ANY means nessecary.

Seriously, if they took all the money they make off of oil and invested it in their economy instead of in terrorism and weapons they could easily have a better standard of living then we do. It's their leaders that want nukes and the power that comes with them. We just use them, just like they use us.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Klix, your point is well taken, but I have to disagree. When the Muslims start policing themselves good enough to prevent the grisly beheading of human beings, then I could defend against the racial profiling of Muslims but until then we have a right to protect ourselves by any means nessecary.

Like all black people are responsible for crimes perpetuated by their fellows? All Chinese are responsible for the actions of the Chinese government? All Cambodians are responsible for Pol Pot?

Let's say you are a police officer, and you get a report that someone is out there that committed a crime and he has a tatoo. You start looking for people with a tatoo...is that discrimination against people with tatoos to look extra close at people with tatoos?

There is a distinct difference between the two situations. I'm not in the mood and I don't have the time to explain away this petty bullsh!t with you, though, because apparently you're both convinced that racial profiling is acceptable. Kudos to you and your right to believe what you wish.

Because I support the racial profiling of Muslims at this point in time has nothing to do with blacks, chinese, indians, or anyone else. If they start letting terrorists run training camps that are actually commiting terrorist acts around the globe in their countries then I could support their racial profiling as well.

Kudos to you and your beliefs as well. As my sig says, it's not who's right that counts, it's who's left. The survivors get to right the history books.

Indeed. My family, my nation, and its founding ideals have survived for centuries. Honor and respect for human freedom regardless of differences have no death but by dishonor and a willingness to abridge those principles for short-term security.

Answer me this. Would 9/11 have been averted by racial profiling?

 

[1EZduzit]

There is no way to really know, but we would have had a much better chance of preventing it.

Answer me this, if we wouldn't have rounded up the Japenese Americans during WW2 and put them in camps would the outcome of WW2 been the same?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
There is no way to really know, but we would have had a much better chance of preventing it.

Answer me this, if we wouldn't have rounded up the Japenese Americans during WW2 and put them in camps would the outcome of WW2 been the same?

Yes.

And as far as I know the problems with the system didn't lie in ignoring Muslims because they were Muslim, the problems existed almost entirely in the bureaucratic red tape and infighting between agencies and in the INS's failure to apprehend and deport those with expired visas.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
There is no way to really know, but we would have had a much better chance of preventing it.

Answer me this, if we wouldn't have rounded up the Japenese Americans during WW2 and put them in camps would the outcome of WW2 been the same?

Yes.

LOL, you have no way of knowing that. Maybe Einstein would have been assasinated, delaying the development of the nuke. That was racial profling at it's worst and somehow this country survived it and we're not all enslaved. WoW!! How did that ever happen?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

And as far as I know the problems with the system didn't lie in ignoring Muslims because they were Muslim, the problems existed almost entirely in the bureaucratic red tape and infighting between agencies and in the INS's failure to apprehend and deport those with expired visas.

If they would have been concentrating more on high risk groups maybe they would have checked them out more? Especially since they were taking flying lessons?? Who knows?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Orsorum

And as far as I know the problems with the system didn't lie in ignoring Muslims because they were Muslim, the problems existed almost entirely in the bureaucratic red tape and infighting between agencies and in the INS's failure to apprehend and deport those with expired visas.

If they would have been concentrating more on high risk groups maybe they would have checked them out more? Especially since they were taking flying lessons?? Who knows?

So instead of closing the gaps in the system that directly led to the ability of the 9/11 perpetrators to carry out those horrific acts, you would advocate instituting racial profiling, a move which not only debases the founding principles of our nation but which also adds yet more fodder to Islamic extremists groups' propaganda. Brilliant! All in the name of hypothetical security.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
There is no way to really know, but we would have had a much better chance of preventing it.

Answer me this, if we wouldn't have rounded up the Japenese Americans during WW2 and put them in camps would the outcome of WW2 been the same?

Yes.

LOL, you have no way of knowing that. Maybe Einstein would have been assasinated, delaying the development of the nuke. That was racial profling at it's worst and somehow this country survived it and we're not all enslaved. WoW!! How did that ever happen?

... You're bringing radical hypotheticals into a discussion regarding very real actions. I don't have any ready figures, so maybe you do - how many Japanese spies were caught as a result of the Japanese internment camps?

How much capital, land, and time belonging to those of Japanese descent was lost, stolen, and pillaged as a result of those internment camps?

As a side note, this country survived slavery, segregation, and civil war too. That doesn't make any of those actions desirable, appropriate, or wise.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: slyedog
more "gloom and doom" worry about your own country. we will take care of ours.

Yup.

Hey, Klixxer. What do you think about this policy in your homeland?

Deporting 'hate preachers'

However, the number of legal immigrants will remain limited. The CSU managed to keep its goal of limiting recruitment only in the case of highly qualified foreigners, such as engineers, computer specialists and scientists. In addition, self-employed people who offer jobs to locals will also be allowed to immigrate.

Another key aspect of the deal is a rule that makes it easier for immigration officials to deport "hate preachers" -- wording aimed at Islamic extremists operating in Germany -- and to kick out terror suspects without trial.

Link

Deporting "hate preachers" and kicking out terror suspects without trials? Wow, what a record of civil rights in Germany!

and

All immigrant workers face a number of legal liabilities. Federal law (the Auslaendergesetz of 1965) gives the state the right to restrict their freedom of assembly, association, movement and choice of occupation. Employed workers from other European Community countries have automatically renewable residence permits. Non-Community workers, including Turks (Turkey is not a full member of the Community), qualify as permanent resident aliens only after eight years of continuous work and residence.This problem is especially acute for second and third generation immigrants who speak German as a native language and would find it difficult to reintegrate into Turkish society. One of the problems is that under a 1913 German law, citizenship is generally limited to those of German descent and the law excludes from citizenship children born and raised in Germany by foreign nationals. Also, in order to obtain German citizenship, one must renounce other nationalities, thus prohibiting dual citizenship. This creates a problem for many of the Turkish immigrants because renouncing one's Turkish citizenship has many drawbacks including making it impossible to inherit land in Turkey.

Link

and

Anti-Terror Legislation in Germany

On 8 December, following the September 11 events, the German government passed a series of anti-terrorism laws. Inter alia, the new legislation removes constitutional protection from hate speeches; a Muslim imam, for example, can be prosecuted for preaching hatred in a mosque (see General Analysis).

As part of its fight against terrorism, Germany also amended the law on associations, expunging the ?religious privilege? clause that limited the authority of the state to ban extremist organizations if they were religious. Following this amendment, the Kalifatstaat (see above) was declared illegal, and its leader is to be deported to Turkey

Another consequence of the anti-terrorism war pertained to the Central Register for Foreigners, to which police will now have access. The register has been expanded to include data on visa applicants and on non-Germans entering Germany.

Critics of the anti-terror laws point out that these measures represent an extensive attack on fundamental democratic rights, ?a contradiction in itself? when, allegedly, for the protection of a ?civilized state,? its most essential features are largely abandoned. In this context, the German Judges Federation expressed their alarm that the secret services were taking on the powers of regular civil and criminal investigatory authorities, and would not be subject to judicial scrutiny. While experts criticized the planned package of laws before the domestic affairs committee of the Bundestag, several state interior ministers in the Bundesrat were calling for even harsher legislation.

Why don't you worry about the problems in the Fatherland? That should keep you busy enough.

 

[CubicZirconia]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: slyedog
more "gloom and doom" worry about your own country. we will take care of ours.

Yup.

Hey, Klixxer. What do you think about this policy in your homeland?

Deporting 'hate preachers'

However, the number of legal immigrants will remain limited. The CSU managed to keep its goal of limiting recruitment only in the case of highly qualified foreigners, such as engineers, computer specialists and scientists. In addition, self-employed people who offer jobs to locals will also be allowed to immigrate.

Another key aspect of the deal is a rule that makes it easier for immigration officials to deport "hate preachers" -- wording aimed at Islamic extremists operating in Germany -- and to kick out terror suspects without trial.

Link

Deporting "hate preachers" and kicking out terror suspects without trials? Wow, what a record of civil rights in Germany!

and

All immigrant workers face a number of legal liabilities. Federal law (the Auslaendergesetz of 1965) gives the state the right to restrict their freedom of assembly, association, movement and choice of occupation. Employed workers from other European Community countries have automatically renewable residence permits. Non-Community workers, including Turks (Turkey is not a full member of the Community), qualify as permanent resident aliens only after eight years of continuous work and residence.This problem is especially acute for second and third generation immigrants who speak German as a native language and would find it difficult to reintegrate into Turkish society. One of the problems is that under a 1913 German law, citizenship is generally limited to those of German descent and the law excludes from citizenship children born and raised in Germany by foreign nationals. Also, in order to obtain German citizenship, one must renounce other nationalities, thus prohibiting dual citizenship. This creates a problem for many of the Turkish immigrants because renouncing one's Turkish citizenship has many drawbacks including making it impossible to inherit land in Turkey.

Link

and

Anti-Terror Legislation in Germany

On 8 December, following the September 11 events, the German government passed a series of anti-terrorism laws. Inter alia, the new legislation removes constitutional protection from hate speeches; a Muslim imam, for example, can be prosecuted for preaching hatred in a mosque (see General Analysis).

As part of its fight against terrorism, Germany also amended the law on associations, expunging the ?religious privilege? clause that limited the authority of the state to ban extremist organizations if they were religious. Following this amendment, the Kalifatstaat (see above) was declared illegal, and its leader is to be deported to Turkey

Another consequence of the anti-terrorism war pertained to the Central Register for Foreigners, to which police will now have access. The register has been expanded to include data on visa applicants and on non-Germans entering Germany.

Critics of the anti-terror laws point out that these measures represent an extensive attack on fundamental democratic rights, ?a contradiction in itself? when, allegedly, for the protection of a ?civilized state,? its most essential features are largely abandoned. In this context, the German Judges Federation expressed their alarm that the secret services were taking on the powers of regular civil and criminal investigatory authorities, and would not be subject to judicial scrutiny. While experts criticized the planned package of laws before the domestic affairs committee of the Bundestag, several state interior ministers in the Bundesrat were calling for even harsher legislation.

Why don't you worry about the problems in the Fatherland? That should keep you busy enough.

www.Bartleby.com

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: slyedog
more "gloom and doom" worry about your own country. we will take care of ours.

Yup.

Hey, Klixxer. What do you think about this policy in your homeland?

Deporting 'hate preachers'

However, the number of legal immigrants will remain limited. The CSU managed to keep its goal of limiting recruitment only in the case of highly qualified foreigners, such as engineers, computer specialists and scientists. In addition, self-employed people who offer jobs to locals will also be allowed to immigrate.

Another key aspect of the deal is a rule that makes it easier for immigration officials to deport "hate preachers" -- wording aimed at Islamic extremists operating in Germany -- and to kick out terror suspects without trial.

Link

Deporting "hate preachers" and kicking out terror suspects without trials? Wow, what a record of civil rights in Germany!

and

All immigrant workers face a number of legal liabilities. Federal law (the Auslaendergesetz of 1965) gives the state the right to restrict their freedom of assembly, association, movement and choice of occupation. Employed workers from other European Community countries have automatically renewable residence permits. Non-Community workers, including Turks (Turkey is not a full member of the Community), qualify as permanent resident aliens only after eight years of continuous work and residence.This problem is especially acute for second and third generation immigrants who speak German as a native language and would find it difficult to reintegrate into Turkish society. One of the problems is that under a 1913 German law, citizenship is generally limited to those of German descent and the law excludes from citizenship children born and raised in Germany by foreign nationals. Also, in order to obtain German citizenship, one must renounce other nationalities, thus prohibiting dual citizenship. This creates a problem for many of the Turkish immigrants because renouncing one's Turkish citizenship has many drawbacks including making it impossible to inherit land in Turkey.

Link

and

Anti-Terror Legislation in Germany

On 8 December, following the September 11 events, the German government passed a series of anti-terrorism laws. Inter alia, the new legislation removes constitutional protection from hate speeches; a Muslim imam, for example, can be prosecuted for preaching hatred in a mosque (see General Analysis).

As part of its fight against terrorism, Germany also amended the law on associations, expunging the ?religious privilege? clause that limited the authority of the state to ban extremist organizations if they were religious. Following this amendment, the Kalifatstaat (see above) was declared illegal, and its leader is to be deported to Turkey

Another consequence of the anti-terrorism war pertained to the Central Register for Foreigners, to which police will now have access. The register has been expanded to include data on visa applicants and on non-Germans entering Germany.

Critics of the anti-terror laws point out that these measures represent an extensive attack on fundamental democratic rights, ?a contradiction in itself? when, allegedly, for the protection of a ?civilized state,? its most essential features are largely abandoned. In this context, the German Judges Federation expressed their alarm that the secret services were taking on the powers of regular civil and criminal investigatory authorities, and would not be subject to judicial scrutiny. While experts criticized the planned package of laws before the domestic affairs committee of the Bundestag, several state interior ministers in the Bundesrat were calling for even harsher legislation.

Why don't you worry about the problems in the Fatherland? That should keep you busy enough.

It has already been brought up AND answered, if you read the posts of a thread it helps, that way you can avoid this kind of repetition.

Of course, to ask a troll to read a thread is like telling rain to stop falling, completely pointless, well, i tried.

If you want to create a thread on these issues, go right ahead, this thread is NOT the place for it though.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Klixxer


I am an old tired soldier who has spent his entire life fighting so that others can benefit, if my death would mean a better world for my children, then i have no problem with dying.

How many years have you been a soldier, Klixxer?

 

[Klixxer]

You got PM Ozoned, i am not about to ruin this thread because you trolls can't stick to the issues being discussed.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Klixxer


I am an old tired soldier who has spent his entire life fighting so that others can benefit, if my death would mean a better world for my children, then i have no problem with dying.

How many years have you been a soldier, Klixxer?

I originally come from Finland and served in the Finnish army when i was 17-18, why? is it imprtant? Is it in ANY way relevant to this thread?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Actually, that was a very good way of putting it, stool-foundationg must be stable.

And it really isn't.

A good solution would be to work together instead of the US shunning the rest of the world and deeming the extreme majority of it "irrelevant".

The UN was created for a reason, it was a good reason and that reason is also why the US dislikes it so much, working together and not being the bully on crack seems to be a solution forgotten by many.

Most people who are against the UN have no idea what the UN really is and all the good it does.

The day the UN is scrapped is the day that the Nazi ideas have won, it was created to make sure it could not happen again, it is extremely Ironic that the forefront nation of the UN and against the Nazi agenda are now shunning the very ideas it helped create in a time of friendship between nations.

Agreed. Unfortunately, the UN has demonstrated its inadequacy as well. It seems that there is no limit to corruption in either the US or UN, which is the root of most of the distrust on both sides. Obviously, there is the US, which wants what is best for it, then there is the rest of the UN, which wants what is best for the EU, etc... The biggest problem is that it seems neither side can see the overlap of goals: no one wants war, pollution, et cetera, but there isn't compromise anymore, just unilateral 'our way or the highway' posturing. It's turning the entire idea of global politics into a giant pissing match.

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I'm guessing you've never went through customs to get into another country? It's no different then coming out of a bar late at night and having a officer see that and pull you over to check you out. He has reasonable cause to do so. I guess I think at this point in time a person of mid-eastern descent going through a major airport should/would certainly draw my attention if I were a secruitiy officer.

What do you think would be a good reason to detain someone who might be a terrorist? A gun or a grenade hanging on his belt?? It's a tough call of where that line is, isn't it. When peoples lives are at stake, I think we should err on the side of caution. The last thing this country needs is another 9/11. It would start WW3.

You're missing the point. The point is that in this country, we function on certain basic axioms. In this case, the presumption of innocence. Simply because someone is of middle eastern descent doesn't mean that they're any more likely to be a terrorist. If I carried out a terrorist plot much worse than 9/11 - would you call for preemptive search and seizure of all white males? Of course not. So, I have to ask: what is the difference?

You want to err on the side of caution, which is what we are doing. Increased security at airports and what have you. I've been picked out of the crowd every time I've flown since 9/11 (lucky me), and I have no problem with that because I know it's a random procedure. I might even get selected because I'm the least terrorist-looking person in the airport (I think you know what I mean), and that's fine. I would much rather have that than have a group of people being relegated as second-class citizens simply because of a few insane members of the same race did something really stupid. Where would you draw the line? Just deport them all - that's the logical conclusion, since 'they' are all a risk.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
You got PM Ozoned, i am not about to ruin this thread because you trolls can't stick to the issues being discussed.

A bit edgy today, Klixxer?

Surely, you don't seriously mind the question? I mean, when one ponders the topic title and reads the op, curiosity does set in.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
There is no way to really know, but we would have had a much better chance of preventing it.

Answer me this, if we wouldn't have rounded up the Japenese Americans during WW2 and put them in camps would the outcome of WW2 been the same?

Yes.

LOL, you have no way of knowing that. Maybe Einstein would have been assasinated, delaying the development of the nuke. That was racial profling at it's worst and somehow this country survived it and we're not all enslaved. WoW!! How did that ever happen?

... You're bringing radical hypotheticals into a discussion regarding very real actions. I don't have any ready figures, so maybe you do - how many Japanese spies were caught as a result of the Japanese internment camps?

How much capital, land, and time belonging to those of Japanese descent was lost, stolen, and pillaged as a result of those internment camps?

As a side note, this country survived slavery, segregation, and civil war too. That doesn't make any of those actions desirable, appropriate, or wise.

I think the point I was trying to make is that we had no acts of terror from the Japanese on our mainland during WW2. Except of course for the hot air incendary bombs they sent over in the jet stream.

How much would we have lost if we lost the war?? EVERYTHING!! Now the Japanese are one of our best allies. Go figure. The interened japs lost a lot of freedom and time, but I think our goverment did the right thing for the majority of it's citizens. Perhaps it's unfortunate that a group of high risk people can be so easily identified, but it would have been remiss of us not to take advatage of it.

It can be argued that the USA with all its lofty ideals is the only country to ever actually nuke someone. We killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people when we did that. Why? To save thousands of our young men. I think Truman made the right choice about that and I will defend it also.

To try to compare slavery to being detained is, at best, a gross exaggeration. I also don't see how it relates to segregation (which was a regional problem) or the civil war which freed the slaves?


My main point is that the Muslims in this country will just have to suck it up for a bit and put up with being detained. It's not like our young men and women fighting this war don't have to suck it up a bit. Their ass is on the line, not yours. Try thinking of the best way to get them home ASAP and quit worrying about a few detainees. We need to get this war OVER!!!!! I'm for anything short of nukes that will speed the end of this insane war on terrorism. Grow up. We don't live in a perfect world and we didn't start the fire.

 

[burnedout]

Just to set the record straight regarding internment during WWII.

In addition to the Japanese, the U.S. interned 11,000 German civilians. We also interned thousands of Italians.