Lois Lerner - deja vu

[Bowfinger]

We know the IRS has SAID only one-third were picked via the Tea Party BOLO; we don't KNOW that because the IRS has been unwilling to provide this supposed list. Presumably counting them is easy, but hitting "FORWARD" or "PRINT" will take a couple years just like providing the rest of Lerner's emails.

It was the Inspector General who provided that information in his report, not the IRS. As has been explained many times, he counted the number of selected applications whose names contained keywords from the "Tea Party" BOLO. He declined to characterize the ideology of the remaining two-thirds, however, stating that such subjective assessments were contrary to his fact-finding role. We only know that he agreed that the great majority of applications selected did show signs of significant political activity and were therefore appropriate targets for additional review.

I assume (but do not know as fact) that producing the complete list violates privacy laws concerning such applications. I agree that having the complete list would answer many questions.

 

[TerryMathews]

I assume (but do not know as fact) that producing the complete list violates privacy laws concerning such applications. I agree that having the complete list would answer many questions.

It would seem that if they really wanted to make the list available to Congress unredacted that there should be a way to do so. After all, there are proceedures to brief selected Congressmen and Senators on Top Secret/SCI information like everything Snowden leaked. Surely a similar process could be applied to tax information.

To be clear, I have not looked into it and am not stating that such a provision exists within the law. I am saying that such a provision should be workable if they were determined to make it happen.

 

[Fern]

The privacy argument is BS. Their tax records must be made available for public inspection. I'd like to see someone who claims privacy produce a legal analysis of such a position:

An exempt organization must make available for public inspection its exemption application. An exemption application includes the Form 1023 (for organizations recognized as exempt under Internal Revenue Code section 501(c)(3)), Form 1024 (for organizations recognized as exempt under most other paragraphs of section 501(c)), or the letter submitted under the paragraphs for which no form is prescribed, together with supporting documents and any letter or document issued by the IRS concerning the application. A political organization exempt from taxation under section 527(a) must make available for public inspection and copying its notice of status, Form 8871.

In addition, an exempt organization must make available for public inspection and copying its annual return. Such returns include Form 990 , Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax, Form 990-EZ , Short Form Return of Organization Exempt From Income Tax, Form 990-PF, Return of Private Foundation, Form 990-BL , Information and Initial Excise Tax Return for Black Lung Benefit Trusts and Certain Related Persons, and the Form 1065 , U.S. Partnership Return of Income.

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-...tions:-Documents-Subject-to-Public-Disclosure

Fern

 

[Bowfinger]

The privacy argument is BS. Their tax records must be made available for public inspection. I'd like to see someone who claims privacy produce a legal analysis of such a position:


http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-...tions:-Documents-Subject-to-Public-Disclosure

Fern

That's fine, but then what's with all the allegations that Cummings got private information about True the Vote, and that the IRS released private information to some progressive group? If the information is all public, it seems those complaints must be "BS", even though they've been parroted so frequently on the right (including in links you provided). I'm not an expert, but it seems to me one of these two conflicting claims must be wrong.

 

[Bowfinger]

That's fine, but then what's with all the allegations that Cummings got private information about True the Vote, and that the IRS released private information to some progressive group? If the information is all public, it seems those complaints must be "BS", even though they've been parroted so frequently on the right (including in links you provided). I'm not an expert, but it seems to me one of these two conflicting claims must be wrong.

Bueller? Anyone? Has the right been lying to us -- again -- about all this purportedly private information leaked? It certainly wouldn't surprise me, and it would raise greater questiions about withholding the list of the 297 targeted applications. On the other hand, it eliminates one of the most serious allegations against the IRS, that it released private information to some Democratic group.

 

[TerryMathews]

Bueller? Anyone? Has the right been lying to us -- again -- about all this purportedly private information leaked? It certainly wouldn't surprise me, and it would raise greater questiions about withholding the list of the 297 targeted applications. On the other hand, it eliminates one of the most serious allegations against the IRS, that it released private information to some Democratic group.

It sounds like we won't know until the IRS is done redacting Lerner's emails. One at a time. Between coffee breaks. For the next two years.

You're right, someone is lying and I certainly will leave open the possibility that its Issa. OTOH, it certainly is possible that the IRS, admin, and Cummings are lying as well.

Hell, there's even a middle ground where they're all lying. This is Washington, after all.

"I am not a crook."
"There's no domestic spying program."
"Yellow cake."
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Lying is almost a DC rite of passage.

 

[Bowfinger]

Update: House now plans to vote on Lerner contempt in May:

House to Vote in May on Holding IRS Official Lois Lerner in Contempt

The House of Representatives will vote in May to hold former Internal Revenue Service official Lois Lerner in contempt of Congress, a move that likely will fan the ongoing controversy over IRS targeting of conservative groups. ...

On a related note, WGN America has started a new series, Salem, about the Salem witch hysteria. No word yet on whether Issa will make a cameo.

 

[Jhhnn]

Update: House now plans to vote on Lerner contempt in May:


On a related note, WGN America has started a new series, Salem, about the Salem witch hysteria. No word yet on whether Issa will make a cameo.

Pandering & grandstander-ing, trying to convince the Teatards that they really, really are terribly oppressed any time their practice of receiving well laundered anonymous billionaire funding is questioned. It would really cut off their air supply, no doubt.

The whole thing is beyond stale for all but the Faithful, the True Believers. It's kinda stinking the place up, but they don't have much of a sense of smell when it comes to their own shit. They think it smells like roses.

 

[TerryMathews]

It's kinda stinking the place up, but they don't have much of a sense of smell when it comes to their own shit. They think it smells like roses.

You make it sound as if this is a trait exclusive to the Republicans. Lol.

 

[Jhhnn]

You make it sound as if this is a trait exclusive to the Republicans. Lol.

Let us know when you come up with a list of twisted stinkers to equal birtherism, voter fraud, defunding ACORN at least 37 times, fast & furious, Benghazi, States Righters demanding enforcement of federal marijuana law, the Nevada ranch situation & this little dramatization about money laundering, OK?

Is the stench somehow less oppressive when it's continuous?

 

[werepossum]

It sounds like we won't know until the IRS is done redacting Lerner's emails. One at a time. Between coffee breaks. For the next two years.

You're right, someone is lying and I certainly will leave open the possibility that its Issa. OTOH, it certainly is possible that the IRS, admin, and Cummings are lying as well.

Hell, there's even a middle ground where they're all lying. This is Washington, after all.

"I am not a crook."
"There's no domestic spying program."
"Yellow cake."
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

Lying is almost a DC rite of passage.

We'll never know. The federal government is no longer bound by law in much of anything.

 

[Bowfinger]

Here's an update and general review, in advance of the pending House contempt vote: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-turning-up-the-heat-in-irs-probe/

It sounds like the contempt vote is supposed to be today. Tomorrow they plan to vote on a resolution calling for Holder to appoint a special counsel (which apparently requires no vote, just a letter to Holder, but that wouldn't give them TV time).

 

[compuwiz1]

Here's an update and general review, in advance of the pending House contempt vote: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-turning-up-the-heat-in-irs-probe/

It sounds like the contempt vote is supposed to be today. Tomorrow they plan to vote on a resolution calling for Holder to appoint a special counsel (which apparently requires no vote, just a letter to Holder, but that wouldn't give them TV time).

Holder will not comply because he would not want to do anything to undermine the crookedness in this administration, not to mention that he too is a crook.

 

[boomerang]

Holder will not comply because he would not want to do anything to undermine the crookedness in this administration, not to mention that he too is a crook.

Yup. This needs to be dealt with in the same manner as Benghazi. Holder holds allegiance to only Obama and the nation be damned.

 

[TerryMathews]

Tomorrow they plan to vote on a resolution calling for Holder to appoint a special counsel (which apparently requires no vote, just a letter to Holder, but that wouldn't give them TV time).

Same exact thing can be said regarding Obama and Marijuana being a schedule 1 narcotic.

 

[hal2kilo]

Holder will not comply because he would not want to do anything to undermine the crookedness in this administration, not to mention that he too is a crook.

Oh goody a trifecta may be in the offing.

 

[emperus]

Oh goody a trifecta may be in the offing.

The GOP. The party that knows no shame. It's funny that Lewinsky was in the news this week. The same week as this sham of an IRS scandal and this newly formed Benghazi committee.

 

[boomerang]

Lerner has just been voted to be held in contempt.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh goody a trifecta may be in the offing.

The GOP. The party that knows no shame. It's funny that Lewinsky was in the news this week. The same week as this sham of an IRS scandal and this newly formed Benghazi committee.

Expect a redux of Birtherism, along with renewed raving about Fast & Furious.

When you've got nothing to stand on, tear down the other guy.

 

[senseamp]

Lerner has just been voted to be held in contempt.

Of what? This Congress? She is in a majority there.
http://pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm

 

[Jhhnn]

Lerner has just been voted to be held in contempt.

I'll take pandering & propagandizing for $1000, Alex.

Anything to keep that little failboat afloat, huh?

I thought Repubs were trying to win his election, not just pander to the most delusional elements in their base.

 

[TerryMathews]

Expect a redux of Birtherism, along with renewed raving about Fast & Furious.

When you've got nothing to stand on, tear down the other guy.

"Anybody but Boosh!"

 

[boomerang]

Six Dem's joined Republicans. A true bipartisan decision.

 

[zinfamous]

Six Dem's joined Republicans. A true bipartisan decision.

Hey, I'm laughing with you this time.

 

[werepossum]

Six Dem's joined Republicans. A true bipartisan decision.

Agreed, but I find this troubling. I pretty much despise Lerner and I think any federal employee taking the Fifth should be dismissed on principle, but I don't like the precedent of charging contempt for taking the Fifth. I get as pissed as anyone when people make a statement and then plead their right to not incriminate themselves, but I think that privilege must be available at any point in testimony. In theory, one could be perfectly innocent and still realize during testimony that the current line of questioning will make one look guilty as hell. In that situation, pleading the Fifth and having everyone think you're guilty might be better than continuing testimony and looking even guiltier.