Lois Lerner - deja vu

[boomerang]

 

[feralkid]

This is a perfect example of the true meaning of the term "Begging The Question".

Look it up, as I would be surprised someone like you would have any clue as to the definition.

 

[LunarRay]

Please. Issa violated the norms of common decency and respect for the processes of govt he is charged with upholding as a Representative & a Chairman.

"Technically correct" is not an adequate excuse for his behavior, even if true.

IF Issa operated within the rules then the issue goes to Issa's attitude as chairman. His lack of comity although not a rule breaker does go to the general theme expected from a chairman.

There is a fine line between partisan objectives and obstructionism. They are merged often in a quest to achieve or prosecute some agenda.

The notion of comity is practiced to maintain some sense of decorum in an environment filled with volatile issues and everyone carrying a lit match.

Issa, by his actions in that Committee violated the highest rule of The House... He showed he was not interested in learning the facts and made obvious his true agenda and that reduces the effectiveness of the Committee and the potential to provide for the needs of the Nation in general.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Lois Lerner herself approved an application, in less than 1 months time, for non-profit, tax exempt status for an organization located in
KENYA . She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations. And the name of this organization? -----
THE Barack H. Obama Foundation.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/349853/lois-lerner-defense-mark-steyn

 

[boomerang]

Lois Lerner herself approved an application, in less than 1 months time, for non-profit, tax exempt status for an organization located in
KENYA . She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations. And the name of this organization? -----
THE Barack H. Obama Foundation.

Here's the link. We're dealing with people who don't believe anything that isn't on The Daily Show.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...c53e8a-be57-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_story.html

I should start a thread around the link below but I've got the blood pressure raised on too many as it is.

The Destroyer Cometh

 

[Fern]

Doesn't the law itself (not regulations) prevent political activities?

No.

Here's the law:

(4)

(A) Civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare, or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.

(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to an entity unless no part of the net earnings of such entity inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/501

IMO, the heart of the issue is the meaning of "social welfare".

Many political issues fall under "social welfare". Many political issues are argued as social welfare. I.e., they are justified by their supporters as being for the social welfare.

Consequently it has become increasingly difficult to separate the two.

Fern

 

[hotrod72]

I just can't understand why the "Left" and the "Right" don't see questions of possible government malfeasance as equally dangerous and worthy of the gravest of measures, regardless of which end of the political spectrum it may originate. Whoever may desire political victory for their side at the expense of endangering the liberty of us all, is morally bankrupt. These are the kinds of activities, by ANY government, that should see ALL of our citizens sharing a like-minded repugnance.There should be unanimous, "bi-partisan", grass-roots alarm among the people, demanding that no stone be left unturned, at every accusation of abuse committed by government,by any "side".

 

[Moonbeam]

I just can't understand why the "Left" and the "Right" don't see questions of possible government malfeasance as equally dangerous and worthy of the gravest of measures, regardless of which end of the political spectrum it may originate. Whoever may desire political victory for their side at the expense of endangering the liberty of us all, is morally bankrupt. These are the kinds of activities, by ANY government, that should see ALL of our citizens sharing a like-minded repugnance.There should be unanimous, "bi-partisan", grass-roots alarm among the people, demanding that no stone be left unturned, at every accusation of abuse committed by government,by any "side".

This is so. What we need, however, if for folk who have been poked in the eye endless numbers of times by those who demonize, to make this pronouncement rather than folk who have never lost any skin in the game. The conservative capacity for assholeness and manipulation of contribution laws is boundless. Try turning the other cheek boundless times and see if it wears thin. Folk create what they fear. Break into too many people's houses in the middle of the night and you may just get blown away. I know, I know, the rules don't apply to some people and scamming the system for personal advantage is OK for politicians because they are the good guys. Never in my life have I seen such a pack of swine try to game the system as the modern Republican party and their profound sense of entitlement that excludes citizens of Kenya. We see the same thing in their heroic efforts to prevent non existent voter fraud at the polls that disenfranchised poor voters. Swine is what they are.

If you don't try to protect yourself from such evil, you are going to have to have extraordinary self respect, the kind of self respect that is sadly rare.

Furthermore, your post implies that real crimes were committed and we do not know that for a fact yet. This is not to imply that using the IRS for malicious purposes isn't damn evil.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

I just can't understand why the "Left" and the "Right" don't see questions of possible government malfeasance as equally dangerous and worthy of the gravest of measures, regardless of which end of the political spectrum it may originate. Whoever may desire political victory for their side at the expense of endangering the liberty of us all, is morally bankrupt. These are the kinds of activities, by ANY government, that should see ALL of our citizens sharing a like-minded repugnance.There should be unanimous, "bi-partisan", grass-roots alarm among the people, demanding that no stone be left unturned, at every accusation of abuse committed by government,by any "side".

If you wrote that yourself, it ain't bad. also lurker grab

 

[Jhhnn]

This is a perfect example of the true meaning of the term "Begging The Question".

Look it up, as I would be surprised someone like you would have any clue as to the definition.

Indeed. Righties have often made multiple leaps of faith to arrive at beliefs they use as premises for their arguments. They also have emotional investment, usually in self-righteousness, the kind that prevents re-evaluation of what they believe.

It's profoundly difficult for them to escape such patterns. On the one hand, they seem to like it & to be able to avoid cognitive dissonance through a variety of denial mechanisms, duh-version being one of them. OTOH, their beliefs are constantly reinforced with their source selection process, sources expert at managing & manipulating their I-want-to-believe headsets.

Stephen Colbert, a truly towering intellect & commentator on the human condition, has a word for it- "Truthiness", a concept so profound that that those living it can't possibly understand it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Lois Lerner herself approved an application, in less than 1 months time, for non-profit, tax exempt status for an organization located in
KENYA . She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations. And the name of this organization? -----
THE Barack H. Obama Foundation.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/349853/lois-lerner-defense-mark-steyn

And, uhh, so what? Is it likely that this non-profit will be politicking in this country?

It's relevant to the subject of this thread in what way, exactly?

 

[feralkid]

Lois Lerner herself approved an application, in less than 1 months time, for non-profit, tax exempt status for an organization located in
KENYA . She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations. And the name of this organization? -----
THE Barack H. Obama Foundation.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/349853/lois-lerner-defense-mark-steyn

That's pretty incriminating, because...which laws were broken?

 

[monovillage]

That's pretty incriminating, because...which laws were broken?

She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations.

You stupid fuck.

 

[emperus]

She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations.

You stupid fuck.

Swearing doesn't answer the question.

So, let me ask it again. Assuming everything in that article is correct (that means assuming she backdated the application), what laws were broken?

If you can find the answer to that come back and then it'll merit a discussion.

 

[boomerang]

I just can't understand why the "Left" and the "Right" don't see questions of possible government malfeasance as equally dangerous and worthy of the gravest of measures, regardless of which end of the political spectrum it may originate. Whoever may desire political victory for their side at the expense of endangering the liberty of us all, is morally bankrupt. These are the kinds of activities, by ANY government, that should see ALL of our citizens sharing a like-minded repugnance.There should be unanimous, "bi-partisan", grass-roots alarm among the people, demanding that no stone be left unturned, at every accusation of abuse committed by government,by any "side".

We have been divided into tribes. Easy to do as humans haven't really advanced much psychologically at all over the millennia. This tribal division has been the greatest success of 100 years of progressivism. But it clouds our judgment as far as ignoring what's important and what's not. You're 100% right. We should all be very, very concerned about overreach by our government. But if we do that, one tribe may lose. So everything that can be done to scuttle the investigation must be done.

Long live the tribe! Let's hope it doesn't come to the point of "Death to the other tribe!"

 

[monovillage]

Swearing doesn't answer the question.

So, let me ask it again. Assuming everything in that article is correct (that means assuming she backdated the application), what laws were broken?

If you can find the answer to that come back and then it'll merit a discussion.

What you're saying is that if i can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she broke the law, that then and only then, would you think it actually merits a "discussion".

 

[emperus]

What you're saying is that if i can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she broke the law, that then and only then, would you think it actually merits a "discussion".

I never said that. Just tell me what laws you think she may have broke, or what you believe makes the actions she took improper.

Simply, do you know that the situation as it occurred was uncommon for an IRS agent to do or was different than if it were a random group without Obama in the name?

Listen, I'm not saying it is or isn't a scandal. But, I don't get apoplectic about something unless I have some rationed believe that something improper happened. And all I'm asking for is some evidence or background that led you to believe that something untoward happened.

 

[feralkid]

She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations.

You stupid fuck.

And that's illegal because...

 

[werepossum]

Lois Lerner herself approved an application, in less than 1 months time, for non-profit, tax exempt status for an organization located in
KENYA . She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations. And the name of this organization? -----
THE Barack H. Obama Foundation.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/349853/lois-lerner-defense-mark-steyn

Wow. Just, wow.

I just can't understand why the "Left" and the "Right" don't see questions of possible government malfeasance as equally dangerous and worthy of the gravest of measures, regardless of which end of the political spectrum it may originate. Whoever may desire political victory for their side at the expense of endangering the liberty of us all, is morally bankrupt. These are the kinds of activities, by ANY government, that should see ALL of our citizens sharing a like-minded repugnance.There should be unanimous, "bi-partisan", grass-roots alarm among the people, demanding that no stone be left unturned, at every accusation of abuse committed by government,by any "side".

Well said.

And that's illegal because...

Un. Fucking. Believable.

This is why we can't have nice things. We have the government we deserve.

 

[feralkid]

Wow. Just, wow.


Well said.


Un. Fucking. Believable.


OMG!~Iwas like, wow.


It's not like I have any facts, just oh wow.



Golly-gee wow/.

Welcome to Monday.

 

[werepossum]

Welcome to Monday.

Hey, if you want to be incredibly vapid for political purposes, be my guest. Just a shame that people like you are destroying my country.

This is the beauty of democracy. If a majority of voters want a government that operates totally outside the law, that's what we get. Sucks for the rest of us, but a nation where a majority support banana republic government behavior deserves to be a banana republic. We're getting exactly what we deserve.

 

[feralkid]

Hey, if you want to be incredibly vapid for political purposes, be my guest. Just a shame that people like you are destroying my country.

This is the beauty of democracy. If a majority of voters want a government that operates totally outside the law, that's what we get. Sucks for the rest of us, but a nation where a majority support banana republic government behavior deserves to be a banana republic. We're getting exactly what we deserve.

Oh, wow; sorry about destroying "your" country. oopsy!


You still haven't explained which laws you think were broken.


Wow.

 

[thraashman]

Lois Lerner herself approved an application, in less than 1 months time, for non-profit, tax exempt status for an organization located in
KENYA . She also backdated the application to cover two and a half years of donations. And the name of this organization? -----
THE Barack H. Obama Foundation.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/349853/lois-lerner-defense-mark-steyn

Well it was founded by the President's half-brother on his father's side and is named after their shared father, not the President. From their about page:

"The Barack H. Obama Foundation is committed to a wide array of development and humanitarian projects which will help mitigate social-shortcomings in areas of education and literacy, health and well-being, poverty, and lack of community infrastructure in such basic needs such as water, electricity, shelter and sustenance. It was the vision of Barack H. Obama, that efforts be made around the globe to address the needs of those most in need."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Well it was founded by the President's half-brother on his father's side and is named after their shared father, not the President. From their about page:

"The Barack H. Obama Foundation is committed to a wide array of development and humanitarian projects which will help mitigate social-shortcomings in areas of education and literacy, health and well-being, poverty, and lack of community infrastructure in such basic needs such as water, electricity, shelter and sustenance. It was the vision of Barack H. Obama, that efforts be made around the globe to address the needs of those most in need."

I'm sure if it were named the Tea Party Foundation it would have got identical treatment. :whiste:

 

[feralkid]

I'm sure if it were named the Tea Party Foundation it would have got identical treatment. :whiste:

And that is exactly what the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is trying to find out.

Results so far: Dick.