LoL at Alienware

[jvarszegi]

Originally posted by: Dug
You prove my point so well. Sorry you can't put a simple mechanical vehicle together, let alone don't have the physical strength or are too lazy to handle it, or even a garage to work in. You're right, there's too many parts in a car, so don't do it.

Guess how people feel about building a computer. Try explaining to someone that's never built a computer, from scratch, how to pick out parts, explain all the details and specifications, install the os, update drivers, and configure.

They'll become bored in 5minutes because to them it's not worth the hassle, just like building a car isn't worth the hassle to you.

Again, since you won't listen to reason, why don't you run a poll? Then you can disagree with almost the whole world, instead of just me.

Resurfacing a rotor is comparable to what, resurfacing a hard disk in the comfort of your own home? Refute these facts, if you're feeling a mite silly this morning:

1. There are more parts, each with varieties from vastly more manufacturers, in cars than in PCs.
2. There are more types of cars than PCs.
3. It takes longer to put a car together.
4. It takes longer to secure parts, space and tools to put a car together.
5. It takes longer to learn how to put a car together. (If you claim different, you're a flat-out ass. People train for months or years just to really begin with cars, but someone can learn how to put together a PC in a night if they try.)
6. There are many more types of maintenance required on a car than there are on a computer.

I understand that no one really likes to admit they're wrong, but just run a survey if you won't admit the truth to yourself...

There's plenty of value in building one's own car, but it's clearly not as easy.

 

[Sunner]

Yeah, saying that someone not knowing how to put a car together is the same as someone who's computer illiterate doesn't know how to put a computer together is extremely silly.

When I put my first computer together, I just read the instructions and used some common sense.
Sure, it took a while, but after some reading and some thinking, it was no problem, anyone who's ever build a piece of furniture from IKEA would have no problem building a computer.

A car is vastly more complicated, anyone denying this is just being silly, unless you go down to the chiplevel, but that's not quite what's being discussed here.

 

[Philippine Mango]

Originally posted by: Confusednewbie1552
"I mean some people don't even know what a processor is and yet some of us can tell us exactally what sized "plate" (I totally forgot the name of it) the intel pentium III katmai core was stamped on. "

So true. I have a friend who thought the proccesor was the actual computer. I then showed him an Intel Pentium 4 and he was dumbfounded and awed on how small it was

Personally I was so close in getting an Area 51 Alienware PC. Then one day I asked someone in a post in some other forum if ATI or Nvidia was better. He told me it depends (9800 being better than 5900 and 6800 GT being better than x800 Pro). Soon in one of his posts later on in the topic he said build a pc and don't buy it. I was confused on how to build a pc. So I went to google and found anandtech and all was shown clearly before me =) . When I researched for my computer I actually found it enjoyable, and even today, now that I don't need to research anymore, I still read the reviews here just for fun. Building was fun, and I became from a confused newbie on computers to a newbie on computers . I even found troubleshooting fun, it was like some sort of final challenge from the computer gods (I'm crazy right now ). Anyway I am happy that I didn't go with Alienware and I believe anyone who plans ahead and keeps at least a weekend free to him/herself should build. Nothing can beat Dell in low prices and I believe Dell is the way to go if you're going low end and want to save a ton of money (and not overclock). For medium and high end I believe you should build it yourself. And if you absolutely have to buy get a computer from Falcon Northwest (I think Voodoo is a little overpriced and I don't care about how good my case looks and Alienware is extremely overpriced (correct me if I'm wrong) ). If you are concerned about building or testing ask ABS to build it for you (I'm not sure if they do testing also). All I can say is my computer is so freaking awesome!!!!! And I built it!!! W00t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First bold= How most true enthusiests feel, look at me I have a perfectly working 3.5GHZ system with Radeon 9800 pro and I'm bored stiff because it ain't broken!

Second bold= Not true, actually you can build the crappiest of the crappy systems for under $500! And you can even PURCHASE a computer for $200 from frys "Great Quality" that run linux/lindows and aren't THAT slow.

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

"Second bold= Not true, actually you can build the crappiest of the crappy systems for under $500! And you can even PURCHASE a computer for $200 from frys "Great Quality" that run linux/lindows and aren't THAT slow."

Ah Ha! But I never said that Dell is the cheapest!!! I said it was the "way to go."

 

[Pnoy02]

People are leaving out that when you purchase from Alienware, you don't get your machine instantly, it goes to building, burn in and shipping, which all together would take longer than to buy parts and build it when the parts arrive, so in truth, DIY is actually faster.

 

[dickie1900]

I gotta say, the only people who benefit from buying pre-built computers are those that either don't have the time or intelligence to fix the problems they run into on their own. I have bought an alienware computer, nearly three years ago, before I knew anything about DIY or computers in general. Now, the only thing that remains of that system is the case and CRT, I've replaced everything else. AW isn't a bad company, they build great systems, but you're going to pay for it. The only way I would even consider it today is if I was going to pick up one of their ALX systems....now those are nice, and probably not something I could do myself (or at least haven't tried yet), but with a $6000 price tag......it's probably not happening anytime soon.

 

[jmagg]

The upside in spending the time learning to build, and troubleshoot a computer is huge.
One year warrantys dissolve quickly, leaving you at the mercy of repair shops and down time.
Modular componants make building a pc very easy.
A small amount of reasoning, and process of elimination, will solve all but the stickiest of problems
(early signs of hardware failure can be difficult to diagnose)
Imo, time spent outweighs dependance on tech support, and warrantys (the parts are warranted anyway).

Lastly, for the most part, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

 

[Steg55]

That is the biggest load of BS I have ever seen come out of a marketing department.
Hell its even worse than nVidia and the NV3x fiasco.

What Alienware don?t do if offer you a CHOICE!
I want Corsair XL RAM because thats what I want in my multiple thousand £/$ PC. Can I get it? NO. What if I want OCZ RAM? Na ah. Or a totally different kind of RAM? Different make/model of motherboard? Certain manufacturer of graphics card? A particular optical drive?
Building you own PC you get the components you want - not what they want to give you.
And there whole 'quality and style - look at our flash cases then at your grey box' argument? Ever seen an Alienware case? Its cheap flimsy plastic over a cheap steal shell. And they also have a seriously odd sense of style. Comparing an Alienware case to my Thermaltake Tsunami Dream is - as Alienware put it - like comparing their nice curvy case to a dull grey box.

And anyway - how many times does a Windows installation just up and fail? Other than hardware problems, which a bit of sense and logic can solve, Windows doesnt just die. The only reason I've seen to reinstall Windows is when its get clogged with Ad/Spy-ware. Do Alienware install FF on there machine be default? No? So Alienware machines will get just as bugged down as ANY other machine with an incompitent user.

Dream on Alienware - any one who knows what he is doing still builds their own PC.

Steg

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Pnoy02
People are leaving out that when you purchase from Alienware, you don't get your machine instantly, it goes to building, burn in and shipping, which all together would take longer than to buy parts and build it when the parts arrive, so in truth, DIY is actually faster.

well, time and effort/stress probably count a lot more then any small speed gain you might get with self build.

and if any one part is doa, or simply doesn't want to install right, your self build goes into instant hell. rma/mailing stuff back whatever...diagnosing just which part doesn't work....=hell

 

[Dug]

The comparison between building your own car and building your own computer is so incredibly stupid it's hardly worth commenting on, but I'm bored, so I will anyway

Everyone who can build their own car in ~30-60 minutes, raise your hands.
Noone? Ok then.

Are you so stupid can't see the point. That people won't build their own car because they don't know how, or don't care. Just like people won't build their own computer because they don't want to, know how, or don't care to save a little money doing so. It's got nothing to do with time, etc. Do you understand Sunner? I thought you were smarter than that.

If you really believe I was trying to making an apples to apples comparison then by all means, keep it up. I thought maybe you could look beyond the obvious.

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Pnoy02
People are leaving out that when you purchase from Alienware, you don't get your machine instantly, it goes to building, burn in and shipping, which all together would take longer than to buy parts and build it when the parts arrive, so in truth, DIY is actually faster.

well, time and effort/stress probably count a lot more then any small speed gain you might get with self build.

and if any one part is doa, or simply doesn't want to install right, your self build goes into instant hell. rma/mailing stuff back whatever...diagnosing just which part doesn't work....=hell

Time/Effort/Stress = about 1 - 2 hours after all hardware arrives. Not much of an investment and orde to delivery of an AW will be what? Minimum of 10 days?

What happens if same part fails, or AW system doesn't boot when it arrives? Hours of tech support followed by repackaging the system and sending it back to AW for service or waiting for a tech. if you have on site service both of which will take much longer than an RMA.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Interesting thread. All the most interesting, because it only seems to touch on the polar extremes - either a complete DIY build, or a pre-built from Dell or AlienWare. While I think that it's clearly apparent that AW charges a lot (some might feel excessively) for their pre-built solution, and Dell's pricing and quality can vary (depending on the model, and depending on stackable coupons/rebates - it could even cost less than the collection of DIY parts due to Dell's bulk-purchasing power), there's one possible solution that appears to be left out of the picture.
Has everyone forgotten about their local corner white-box PC builder?

I mean, obviously, they don't have as big a name as AlienWare or Dell, and most of them can't afford big advertisements in media outlets with nationwide coverage. But what most buyers seem to not realize, that by buying a Dell or AW, they are subsidizing their massive advertising campaing, NOT paying more for a "better" computer.

While I'm still personally a DIY build kind of guy, and would happily put myself up to the challenge of building a competitive machine on a budget to one of the larger pre-built labels, sometimes it's just not worth the hassle to put yourself in the line of fire for tech-support for that computer.

So if you can find a reliable, trustworthy (that's the biggest one - like finding a trustworthy mechanic), local computer store, one that's been there for a few years, why not have them spec and provide a quote for a system? As you as you can specify the exact parts that you want in the build, more or less, then you should end up with a PC just as quality or reliable as a Dell/AW, and those PC shops probably can get better deals on components than you can as an individual, and if the PC is for someone else, then you can avoid the hassle of tech-support and direct the purchaser to the white-box vendor. Most of the ones that I'm familiar with, are quite willing to help with problems after the sale, so long as you bought the computer or the majority of parts from them. Plus, they're local.

Just another in-between viewpoint to consider. I think that most don't, because they feel that their skills are as good or better than some of the people working for these small white-box resellers/builders. While I'm sure that could be quite true, that doesn't diminish them at all in terms of a time/money saving option, in some cases.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and if any one part is doa, or simply doesn't want to install right, your self build goes into instant hell. rma/mailing stuff back whatever...diagnosing just which part doesn't work....=hell

That's another good reason why, if you buy a pre-built machine from a local white-box vendor, if something goes, they are responsible for the whole thing.

 

[doublejbass]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarrySo if you can find a reliable, trustworthy (that's the biggest one - like finding a trustworthy mechanic), local computer store, one that's been there for a few years, why not have them spec and provide a quote for a system? As you as you can specify the exact parts that you want in the build, more or less, then you should end up with a PC just as quality or reliable as a Dell/AW, and those PC shops probably can get better deals on components than you can as an individual, and if the PC is for someone else, then you can avoid the hassle of tech-support and direct the purchaser to the white-box vendor. Most of the ones that I'm familiar with, are quite willing to help with problems after the sale, so long as you bought the computer or the majority of parts from them. Plus, they're local.

Your maturity and reason have no place here. Begone!

I think that he makes a good point. While I'd never consider this because I'm not only able to do it, but more importantly, a dealhunter at heart, this is always a good idea, as long as you do your research to make sure you're not getting ripped off. Like with any business, local or national, Alienware or "COMP-U-TEK" (the most generic white-box name I could come up with), there are scam artists out there. However, I'm sure there are lots of very fair companies out there which will build you something really nice for a small commission.

In the end, DIY or pre-built from a giant, or anywhere in between, the things that you always have to consider:

1. Quality
2. Reliability
3. Price
4. Depreciation
5. Propriety

It's on those criteria that you can determine if anything is a ripoff (like Alienware), and it's funny, I would use those same criteria to buy a car, or anything else.

 

[jterrell]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and if any one part is doa, or simply doesn't want to install right, your self build goes into instant hell. rma/mailing stuff back whatever...diagnosing just which part doesn't work....=hell

That's another good reason why, if you buy a pre-built machine from a local white-box vendor, if something goes, they are responsible for the whole thing.

Actually that just goes to show that person needs to read mechbgon's guide to building out a pc.

Ppovided you get a good psu, mobo and ram, the system will boot with any other faulty part. Most DIY's have good known parts so would merely have to use a lesser version such as say a cdrw instead of a dvd burner if that failed. Most DIY's will have ram, psu and mobo that are known to work. They may have psu testers and other diagnositcs tools as well if they are really DIY guys with some experience.

I do think you are correct that a local guy will llikely offer a better deal with better service and more choices. Price point may be a little higher but its worth it because the guy on the corner can likely give you far superior tech support.

This thread has dragged on forever but I have yet to see anyone say I would suggest my so and so go buy an Alienware pc. I think most gamers have at least considered AW at some point and that is probably why so many became DIY guys. LOL.

 

[Duvie]

Frankly for me it comes down to coing and without me doing the research and hand-picking the parts I may not get the most out of my system....

AW has come down in price greatly, and they should be commended for it. I think heavy gamers and power users whoi are noobs to DIY should get these systems not DELLS!!!! Dells are crap IMO, hard to upgrade, suspect components (which they have to use cheaper components to get the prices so cheap....

That being said most ppl around here have existing systems or parts they like to transfer over. HDDS, monitors, Vid cards (sometimes), power supplies, cases, fans, etc....For these ppl neweeg is better instead of wasting money on parts they already have that are sufficient for their tasks.....

Conclusion...power users/ heavy gamers with no current system or crappy oem built HPs, Gateways, or Dells get AW, and no experience DIYing.....GET AW!!!!!!

All others read the forums and buy at newegg, Zipzoomfly, monarch, etc....

 

[dickie1900]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Interesting thread. All the most interesting, because it only seems to touch on the polar extremes - either a complete DIY build, or a pre-built from Dell or AlienWare. While I think that it's clearly apparent that AW charges a lot (some might feel excessively) for their pre-built solution, and Dell's pricing and quality can vary (depending on the model, and depending on stackable coupons/rebates - it could even cost less than the collection of DIY parts due to Dell's bulk-purchasing power), there's one possible solution that appears to be left out of the picture.
Has everyone forgotten about their local corner white-box PC builder?

I mean, obviously, they don't have as big a name as AlienWare or Dell, and most of them can't afford big advertisements in media outlets with nationwide coverage. But what most buyers seem to not realize, that by buying a Dell or AW, they are subsidizing their massive advertising campaing, NOT paying more for a "better" computer.

While I'm still personally a DIY build kind of guy, and would happily put myself up to the challenge of building a competitive machine on a budget to one of the larger pre-built labels, sometimes it's just not worth the hassle to put yourself in the line of fire for tech-support for that computer.

So if you can find a reliable, trustworthy (that's the biggest one - like finding a trustworthy mechanic), local computer store, one that's been there for a few years, why not have them spec and provide a quote for a system? As you as you can specify the exact parts that you want in the build, more or less, then you should end up with a PC just as quality or reliable as a Dell/AW, and those PC shops probably can get better deals on components than you can as an individual, and if the PC is for someone else, then you can avoid the hassle of tech-support and direct the purchaser to the white-box vendor. Most of the ones that I'm familiar with, are quite willing to help with problems after the sale, so long as you bought the computer or the majority of parts from them. Plus, they're local.

I think this is a ridiculous argument. You say that it's important to find a no-name dealer that does quality work. The bottom line is that if it's not DIY you have to pay for LABOR. You're paying someone else to put the machine together for you. Considering this, the big name pre-built companies (AW, DELL, etc.) have a huge advantage, because they order in bulk (and I'm talking REAL bulk, not just 25 units of something) which gets them the better prices so they don't have to charge as much as the mini-vendors do for a complete pre-built system. There's no competition. And if you get DOA equipment, you can do the same thing the retailer would do, ship it back to the manufacturer and say WTF!! That's what warranties are for.

 

[Astu222]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Frankly for me it comes down to coing and without me doing the research and hand-picking the parts I may not get the most out of my system....

AW has come down in price greatly, and they should be commended for it. I think heavy gamers and power users whoi are noobs to DIY should get these systems not DELLS!!!! Dells are crap IMO, hard to upgrade, suspect components (which they have to use cheaper components to get the prices so cheap....

That being said most ppl around here have existing systems or parts they like to transfer over. HDDS, monitors, Vid cards (sometimes), power supplies, cases, fans, etc....For these ppl neweeg is better instead of wasting money on parts they already have that are sufficient for their tasks.....

Conclusion...power users/ heavy gamers with no current system or crappy oem built HPs, Gateways, or Dells get AW, and no experience DIYing.....GET AW!!!!!!

All others read the forums and buy at newegg, Zipzoomfly, monarch, etc....

yeah but being a "power user" or a "heavy gamer" means knowing how to build your own system, if you dont know how, then you arent a power user. the people that buy alienware are the noobs who dont know how to build one, dont know how to find out, and dont care because they have more money than brains.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Astu222
yeah but being a "power user" or a "heavy gamer" means knowing how to build your own system, if you dont know how, then you arent a power user. the people that buy alienware are the noobs who dont know how to build one, dont know how to find out, and dont care because they have more money than brains.

That is ridiculous. I know how to build computers, that's easy. Your insults are without reason. I am no noob. I don't want to build my own PC, because if you check these forums you'll see the incredible amount of issues people have when building their own PC without the expertise. Threads with titles of "Pc I just built won't POST!!" are a good reason for people to think twice before a DIY project. It is not for everyone, no matter if you are a heavy gamer or power user. Let me tell you something, there are a lot of ignorant gamers that play games more hours a week than I work as a manager. They couldn't build a proper PC if they tried, and some of them take your advice and do it and then they are stuck posting here on some other PC because they didn't do it right. NEVER advise someone to build their own. The people that should already do. I pay people to build my system because I have neither the time nor the patience to invest in it. They already know how to do it right, and I pay them for that knowledge. It's worth it to me, and it's worth it to most people.

This topic should have died a long time ago.

 

[Astu222]

like alienware computers dont have problems, like they dont get BSOD? please. from what ive seen in alienware forums it can take up to 100 days for a system to arrive at your door, and the fastest ive seen was 3 weeks. you could order all your parts from newegg and have a system (for cheaper) running in less than 1 week. even if something is on backorder you would still have a system a lot earlier. and it takes what? less than half a day to assemble and get a PC up and running? dont tell me you dont have 5-6 hours on a sunday free. and even if something goes wrong you can still have it solved in less time it would take for an alienware system to ship. thats IF the alienware ships flawless.

like I said, AW is for the people who have more money than brains.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Astu222
like alienware computers dont have problems, like they dont get BSOD? please. from what ive seen in alienware forums it can take up to 100 days for a system to arrive at your door, and the fastest ive seen was 3 weeks. you could order all your parts from newegg and have a system (for cheaper) running in less than 1 week. even if something is on backorder you would still have a system a lot earlier. and it takes what? less than half a day to assemble and get a PC up and running? dont tell me you dont have 5-6 hours on a sunday free. and even if something goes wrong you can still have it solved in less time it would take for an alienware system to ship. thats IF the alienware ships flawless.

like I said, AW is for the people who have more money than brains.

Dude, not even my Dell has gotten a BSOD. If you get a BSOD in XP, it's because you messed something up. I run my systems clean. No BSOD's here. My friend's custom-built PC got at least one BSOD a day, and his new one isn't much better. In these forums here you see people who can't even get their PC to POST! I don't see a single thread about alienwares or any pre-builts having the same issues.

 

[imported_Computer MAn]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Astu222
like alienware computers dont have problems, like they dont get BSOD? please. from what ive seen in alienware forums it can take up to 100 days for a system to arrive at your door, and the fastest ive seen was 3 weeks. you could order all your parts from newegg and have a system (for cheaper) running in less than 1 week. even if something is on backorder you would still have a system a lot earlier. and it takes what? less than half a day to assemble and get a PC up and running? dont tell me you dont have 5-6 hours on a sunday free. and even if something goes wrong you can still have it solved in less time it would take for an alienware system to ship. thats IF the alienware ships flawless.

like I said, AW is for the people who have more money than brains.

Dude, not even my Dell has gotten a BSOD. If you get a BSOD in XP, it's because you messed something up. I run my systems clean. No BSOD's here. My friend's custom-built PC got at least one BSOD a day, and his new one isn't much better. In these forums here you see people who can't even get their PC to POST! I don't see a single thread about alienwares or any pre-builts having the same issues.

The only time I've ever gotten a BSOD with my custom build is when I was OCing and wasn't stable or having a driver issue so not all custom builds get BSOD

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Astu222

Originally posted by: Duvie
Frankly for me it comes down to coing and without me doing the research and hand-picking the parts I may not get the most out of my system....

AW has come down in price greatly, and they should be commended for it. I think heavy gamers and power users whoi are noobs to DIY should get these systems not DELLS!!!! Dells are crap IMO, hard to upgrade, suspect components (which they have to use cheaper components to get the prices so cheap....

That being said most ppl around here have existing systems or parts they like to transfer over. HDDS, monitors, Vid cards (sometimes), power supplies, cases, fans, etc....For these ppl neweeg is better instead of wasting money on parts they already have that are sufficient for their tasks.....

Conclusion...power users/ heavy gamers with no current system or crappy oem built HPs, Gateways, or Dells get AW, and no experience DIYing.....GET AW!!!!!!

All others read the forums and buy at newegg, Zipzoomfly, monarch, etc....

yeah but being a "power user" or a "heavy gamer" means knowing how to build your own system, if you dont know how, then you arent a power user. the people that buy alienware are the noobs who dont know how to build one, dont know how to find out, and dont care because they have more money than brains.

The definition of a power user or heavy gamer does not mean they know how to build one or tinker with it...My neighbor is heavy into video editing home movies....Does everything to them. A power user fits into this category. Aa average joe surfs the net and does some word processing and a few games here or there. A power user is a person whos application are effected or severely limited by the cpu and components and therefore commands the most power they can buy if they want to minimize their time....Dont ASSume anything. My neighbor knows software any even the hardware components he has but wouldn't have the first clue or confidence in apply thermal paste and applying the heatsink. Or How to hook up all the cable and plugs. Stick in an extra stick of ram no problem. But the real building from ground upt is not always a power users things...

My best friend is a heavy gamer. Got have the latest games. Doesn't know components past the vid card and how they may effect his gameplay. He has never built his own system. I build them for him or his friend at work does....

I think you better understand the title of power user and heavy gamer before you comment again....

 

[Astu222]

http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=54070

http://notebookforums.com/show...ghlight=alienware+bsod

http://notebookforums.com/show...ghlight=alienware+bsod

need I post more? thats all from one relitivly small forum, and all those posts were made within the last few weeks.

EDIT: we all define words differently, but you may be right with the whole power user thing.

 

[Blazin Trav]

I think Alienware is trying to ALIENATE us custom builders. Not a smart way to gain customers, but apparently they gain enough capitol selling AW systems that they think writing this BS is a good risk to take.