Looks like the major issue here is that teachers don't want their evaluations based on student performance.
Hold the phone, you're saying this is not about salary? Conservatives aren't going to hear anything BUT salary - but you brought up an interesting point. Their performance reviews are screwing them over. Is that what this is about?
*checks the article in the OP
Thank you for bringing the truth, the actual story, to the forefront DrPizza. I think this is buried in a lot of news articles, and the information just isn't catching on.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...s-union-contract-talks-strike,0,2062807.story
Public school teachers on strike. I kind of hope that Rahm Emmanuel pulls a Ronald Reagan and fires them all (assuming he's even allowed to do that?)
fuck them. my company has not given out raises in 2 years and we are expected to work more with less. fuck them
Gas in Chicago is $4.10 - $4.70 right now. $76k is not alot. I actually support the teachers, the school system is always given the short end of funding in bad times. They don't give the students what they need for a good environment and then make their pay raises dependent on national standardized tests.
I know in CA instead of the government borrowing money (which they aren't really allowed to do) they instead delayed payment to the schools forcing them to take a loan.
I would imagine the schools in Chicago are left to rot in a similar fashion meanwhile they expect amazing performance out of the schools. I don't know for sure, but it seems common.
You can tell by the way they are bashing the teachers to the fullest extent they have no intention of making a deal or compromise which would be the quickest way to resolve the strike. So much for it being about the children and their education. Both sides are fully entrenching themselves. Very stupid.
... $76k is not alot for Chicago anyway..
If you want to stem school funding do it at the college level, not the middle school level. Full Professors median 196k salary. Undergrads work for free just to get their name on the paper where as 15 years ago research assistant used to be a $24-$28/hr gig. The demand for education is insatiable, and as said before $76k is not alot for Chicago anyway.
$4.10-$4.70 gas, and all taxes are of a similar magnitude. I moved from the suburbs to the city around my area (not chicago) and taxes cost me just as much as I saved in gas when I moved into the city limits, kind of ridiculous. We're talking like $300/mo extra in taxes. 10cents there on my soda, 25 cents here on my gas, $20 a month on my cable bill, double the water bill for the same number of gallons and so on.
If you want to stem school funding do it at the college level, not the middle school level. Full Professors median 196k salary. Undergrads work for free just to get their name on the paper where as 15 years ago research assistant used to be a $24-$28/hr gig. The demand for education is insatiable, and as said before $76k is not alot for Chicago anyway.
$4.10-$4.70 gas, and all taxes are of a similar magnitude. I moved from the suburbs to the city around my area (not chicago) and taxes cost me just as much as I saved in gas when I moved into the city limits, kind of ridiculous. We're talking like $300/mo extra in taxes. 10cents there on my soda, 25 cents here on my gas, $20 a month on my cable bill, double the water bill for the same number of gallons and so on.
He meant $20 in taxes. And that is a stupid cost of living example to bring up because cable is not required. Nor is soda.
Edit: Too far Chicago teachers, too far:
The teachers are forced to spend more time "teaching' at school and they have taken "free" periods from them. As much as many think teaching is easy and teachers day ends at 3:05 they are mistaken.
Usually i bitch when teachers go on strike. This case its understandable. the state demanded teachers work more without a pay raise or breaks.
fuck that.
Rahm is a idiot. To force something (that is btw debatable if it is even going to help the kids) on the teachers and not deal with the union is fucking idiotic. just plain fucking idiotic.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...s-union-contract-talks-strike,0,2062807.story
Public school teachers on strike. I kind of hope that Rahm Emmanuel pulls a Ronald Reagan and fires them all (assuming he's even allowed to do that?)
Gas in Chicago is $4.10 - $4.70 right now. $76k is not alot. I actually support the teachers, the school system is always given the short end of funding in bad times. They don't give the students what they need for a good environment and then make their pay raises dependent on national standardized tests.
I know in CA instead of the government borrowing money (which they aren't really allowed to do) they instead delayed payment to the schools forcing them to take a loan.
I would imagine the schools in Chicago are left to rot in a similar fashion meanwhile they expect amazing performance out of the schools. I don't know for sure, but it seems common.
You can tell by the way they are bashing the teachers to the fullest extent they have no intention of making a deal or compromise which would be the quickest way to resolve the strike. So much for it being about the children and their education. Both sides are fully entrenching themselves. Very stupid.
Agreed, teachers' unions make it much harder to make it harder to get rid of corruption and malfeasance in teachers, but they also protect teachers FROM corruption and malfeasance. And I was speaking of a no-win situation for the teachers; if the kids can't read in middle school, they are already in a no-win situation and the teachers' unions won't help.Ruh? They don't do that already? If anything, teachers unions make it harder to get rid of corruption and malfeasance.
No-win situation for whom? The teacher? Or the kids whom are passed from class and grade to the next while still being functionally illiterate? The solution shouldn't be to give the teacher an "A for effort". Passing the buck is how we get in this situation to begin with.
Well, the bare minimum anyway.
Which part? In the main, I'm referring to the many, many teachers complaining about having to "teach to the test" when this specifically occurred because their students weren't learning the subject matter. If we were ranked #1 rather than the high teens, we wouldn't have to impose standardized tests.Do you have any basis for saying this? I'm interested in where you are getting your info.
If the teacher is teaching non-standard courses, I agree she should be evaluated on the basis of how her students do when tested on that subject, and I'm all in favor of changing the rules. That's a local issue. Even though the kids are being tested on standard 8th grade curricula - which they SHOULD know - there's no reason her evaluation has to be based on that test as long as her students know the standard 8th grade material to an acceptable level.*sigh* another product of bad teachers. I'll repeat myself. The kids were *advanced.* They were in 8th grade, but they were taking the 9th grade curriculum. The way the rules were written though, the teacher was rated on how the kids did on the 8th grade exam. Basically, "okay, kids, we have to waste a day so you can take a test that means nothing to you, but is how they're going to rate me." The kids were in 8th grade, but the COURSE they were taking was Integrated Algebra I. The teacher absolutely did her job - her job was to teach THAT curriculum. BUT, the rating system judges her performance based on how every 8th grade student in the state does on the 8th grade assessment. And, I'll point out again - her students did INCREDIBLY well on the 9th grade assessment - scores that most teachers can only dream of.
She could have taught those kids all of Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre-Calculus, and had the kids take the Calculus BC exam at the end of 8th grade - and because they couldn't answer what would amount to a handful of 8th grade trivia questions out of the many questions, she would automatically be rated as ineffective; thems the rules.
THEY ALREADY DO. Not that I personally consider the tests that rigorous, but there are national & state tests specifically of subject matter that the teachers must pass in order to be certified to teach those subjects.
Lastly, you bring up a great point - teacher training programs. Guess what - you decide you're going to evaluate teachers based on the performance of their students on a high stakes test at the end of the year. I already mentioned "teaching to the test" - which you oddly seem to favor. BUT, do you realize that now, a lot of good teachers who have mentored student teachers are NOT going to take a chance on student teachers?? Who is going to say, "sure, I'll have a student teacher have the responsibility of teaching my class for 1 1/2 months. And, of course, if the student teacher does a horrible job, *I'M* the one who is going to be penalized." (Yes, there are student teachers out there who have no clue what they're doing and we don't know why they went into teaching in the first place.)
And of course, the teachers' union is going to protect both of those bad teachers' jobs as strenuously as possible.
Poor fucking teachers
median chicago salary ~38k-41k
median teacher salary ~67k
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/11/how-much-do-chicago-teachers-make/
plus teachers in chicago only work 8months out of the year. If any other worker did that, they get 75% of their salary. or 29k-31k.
The median teacher in chicago makes 2x what the median worker gets. and thats not counting benefits.
Talk about greedy.
My patience is wearing thin. You are obviously too clueless on this to have a valid opinion, but I'll correct you again. Do you believe that you should know EVERY trivial little detail of every class you've ever taken? Why "SHOULD" they know absolutely every trivial little thing from an 8th grade class? Tell me, what are the most appropriate units for measuring sea floor spreading? meters per year? feet per year? centimeters per year? millimeters per year? (Yep, that's listed.) Or, what is the mathematical procedure for determining if a point in a set of data is an outlier, that is, if I have the following data: 2,3,4,4,5,6,6,6,7, and x, what is the minimum value of x when x would be considered an outlier?If the teacher is teaching non-standard courses, I agree she should be evaluated on the basis of how her students do when tested on that subject, and I'm all in favor of changing the rules. That's a local issue. Even though the kids are being tested on standard 8th grade curricula - which they SHOULD know - there's no reason her evaluation has to be based on that test as long as her students know the standard 8th grade material to an acceptable level.
Ummm, let's compare apples to apples. Don't compare it to the median salary of everyone, compare it to the median salary of people with similar educations. I know that in NY, teachers are *required* to have a master's degree. So, to average in all the people working at Wal-mart to determine if they are over paid is a pretty poor comparison.
Ummm, let's compare apples to apples. Don't compare it to the median salary of everyone, compare it to the median salary of people with similar educations. I know that in NY, teachers are *required* to have a master's degree. So, to average in all the people working at Wal-mart to determine if they are over paid is a pretty poor comparison.
why?
why protect bad teachers?
teachers in chicago work only 75% of the year... yet that is never taken into acount ethier.
Put it another way that 69k a year median teacher pay is equal to ~92k a year for a full time worker.
Even though they only work 75% of the year; they do not draw a check the other 25% of the year either.
Of if they draw a check; they do not get paid the $69K in the 9 months that they work; their pay is prorated during the year.
for those that have problems understanding math; lets lay it out.
A teacher gets a contract to teach at $72K per year.
That is $6K per month for a 12 month period.
Or it is $8K per month for a 9 months and $0K for 3 months.
They get to choose.
How many of you will be willing to get your full salary in 9 months and then go 3 months with no paycheck.