lol

[ultimatebob]

The one thing that I learned from all this is that if you're gonna get in on a pyramid scam, get in early.

The Bitcoin haters tend to think of it as more of a "Pump and Dump" scam, like hyping up a worthless penny stock and then selling it before people realize that it's worthless.

Either way, the same rules apply. Get in early, and get out before the crash for maximum profit.

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore. I thought that Bitcoin was a scam when it got up to $100 and crashed, but now that it's over $600 again I don't know what to think anymore.

 

[Alienwho]

The hatred for bitcoin just seems irrational and short sighted.

I sold my car recently, I would have loved to accept bitcoin for it. No hassling with the banks or checks and waiting days for the money to clear.

I'll bet that by the end of 2014 bitcoin will be as widely accepted and normal as paypal. Then why would anybody EVER use paypal again? No more paypal fees! What's so hard to understand about this scenario?

Overstock.com just announced they'll be accepting bitcoin in 2014.

 

[OverVolt]

The hatred for bitcoin just seems irrational and short sighted.

I sold my car recently, I would have loved to accept bitcoin for it. No hassling with the banks or checks and waiting days for the money to clear.

I'll bet that by the end of 2014 bitcoin will be as widely accepted and normal as paypal. Then why would anybody EVER use paypal again? No more paypal fees! What's so hard to understand about this scenario?

Overstock.com just announced they'll be accepting bitcoin in 2014.

Like if you sold it at $1,200 per bitcoin and it dropped to $510 when you went to cash out?

 

[Rakehellion]

Like if you sold it at $1,200 per bitcoin and it dropped to $510 when you went to cash out?

PayPal's 3% fee is sounding mighty sweet now!

 

[Papa Hogan]

My stepson sold his AMD 7950 for almost double what he paid, presumably because of this phenomenon.

 

[JMapleton]

The hatred for bitcoin just seems irrational and short sighted.

I sold my car recently, I would have loved to accept bitcoin for it. No hassling with the banks or checks and waiting days for the money to clear.

I'll bet that by the end of 2014 bitcoin will be as widely accepted and normal as paypal. Then why would anybody EVER use paypal again? No more paypal fees! What's so hard to understand about this scenario?

Overstock.com just announced they'll be accepting bitcoin in 2014.

Yeah, I want to accept a currency that fluctuates 10-20 percent or more in one week. Sell you car for the equivalent of $5000 bitcoins and the next week you have $4000 worth. Great idea.

Bitcoin is a fad driven by speculators, particularly in China. Governments are clamping down on it right now all over world.

You'll be able to buy bitcoins for less than $1 one day.

It's an asset backed by no one, by nothing. At least fiat currencys like the US Dollar are backed by the government and the fact that governments around the world hold our debt and have an incentive to prop up our currency. Bitcoins have none of that. No support. There is absolutely nothing stopping bitcoins from trading at .00001 cents tomorrow. Almost no one is using for actual economic activity accept drug dealers on Tor networks.

Overstock.com accepting bitcoins? You're naive if you believe it's not a marketing stunt. I supposed you believed Amazon.com was really going to deliver products to your door via drones too?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yeah, I want to accept a currency that fluctuates 10-20 percent or more in one week. Sell you car for the equivalent of $5000 bitcoins and the next week you have $4000 worth. Great idea.

Bitcoin is a fad driven by speculators, particularly in China. Governments are clamping down on it right now all over world.

You'll be able to buy bitcoins for less than $1 one day.

It's an asset backed by no one, by nothing. At least fiat currencys like the US Dollar are backed by the government and the fact that governments around the world hold our debt and have an incentive to prop up our currency. Bitcoins have none of that. No support. There is absolutely nothing stopping bitcoins from trading at .00001 cents tomorrow. Almost no one is using for actual economic activity accept drug dealers on Tor networks.

Overstock.com accepting bitcoins? You're naive if you believe it's not a marketing stunt. I supposed you believed Amazon.com was really going to deliver products to your door via drones too?

There's no argument that there is more volatility with bitcoins, but it has potential as a short term investment. In any investment I can think of the possible reward is tied to increased risk. It goes without saying that the downside is also greater. Is it worth it? That can only be answered after the fact.

 

[brianmanahan]

My stepson sold his AMD 7950 for almost double what he paid, presumably because of this phenomenon.

how much did he get for it?

 

[JMapleton]

There's no argument that there is more volatility with bitcoins, but it has potential as a short term investment. In any investment I can think of the possible reward is tied to increased risk. It goes without saying that the downside is also greater. Is it worth it? That can only be answered after the fact.

Given that there is no real basis of value and no long term data for analysis, I would compare it more to a gamble than an investment.

There is absolutely nothing behind it. It's literally nothing you're "trading." Even less than a fiat currency. Just a file on a computer.

It's ridiculous that people are buying this and that the economically illiterate media is hyping it up.

 

[KlokWyze]

Given that there is no real basis of value and no long term data for analysis, I would compare it more to a gamble than an investment.

There is absolutely nothing behind it. It's literally nothing you're "trading." Even less than a fiat currency. Just a file on a computer.

It's ridiculous that people are buying this and that the economically illiterate media is hyping it up.

You sound like you have very little understanding. This makes your post ironic.

This is all about hype, popularity, etc. Just like stocks. That determines the value. The numbers or qualities might help getting logical investors, but it all just boils down to "hotness". BTC, STILL has this in spades. Even after China pulls out it's value looks to have stabilized somewhere in the $500 - $700 area. I'm surprised the US hasn't ruled against BTC in conjunction with China. For the time being at least.

 

[Alienwho]

Yeah, I want to accept a currency that fluctuates 10-20 percent or more in one week. Sell you car for the equivalent of $5000 bitcoins and the next week you have $4000 worth. Great idea.

Bitcoin is a fad driven by speculators, particularly in China. Governments are clamping down on it right now all over world.

You'll be able to buy bitcoins for less than $1 one day.

It's an asset backed by no one, by nothing. At least fiat currencys like the US Dollar are backed by the government and the fact that governments around the world hold our debt and have an incentive to prop up our currency. Bitcoins have none of that. No support. There is absolutely nothing stopping bitcoins from trading at .00001 cents tomorrow. Almost no one is using for actual economic activity accept drug dealers on Tor networks.

Overstock.com accepting bitcoins? You're naive if you believe it's not a marketing stunt. I supposed you believed Amazon.com was really going to deliver products to your door via drones too?

Wow you are so smart. Find a way to place your bets it will be worth $1 some day, based on your confidence it's a surefire way to become a millionaire.

Overstock is a marketing stunt? Doesn't change the fact that you could still buy real physical goods from them with the magical unicorn money.

It's the same argument over and over. "At least fiat currency's like the us dollar are backed by government blah blah bitcoins have no support". The people choose to give it support and value the currency, governments don't do that. Whether you believe in the government that supports a specific currency or whether you bypass the government and support a specific currency yourself makes no difference. If the entire world lost faith in the US government tomorrow the US dollar would become worthless overnight as countries dump their US debt. In fact these countries don't even have to stop believing in the US Government, they could play financial terrorists by making a collective decision to dump the US dollar for no reason.

Currency's only exist out of convenience because it makes no sense to barter on a daily basis. This is the ONLY reason we have dollars - because it's easier than carrying around gold. (Oh wait, but what gives gold its value? Especially to ancient people who had no scientific use for it. Gold was as useful to them as bitcoin is to us today, but it sure was worth a lot for some reason).Bitcoin has the potential of being more convenient than any currency in the history of the world. Retards like you think the government is run by these amazing intellectual geniuses that spread fairy dust on our dollar bills to make them work.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Things only have value that people put value on. Currently bitcoin for some reason has value, however it is not currently viable as a "currency". It is simply like investing in stocks and hoping they go up in price so that you can sell before they crash down. Until that stops, there will be no stable economic value to them which makes them meaningless as a currency.

It's not about hype, it's the reality of the situation. It has to stabilize before it can be taken seriously as a currency which is what people keep saying it is. Right now it pretty much IS a pump and dump scheme that can be exchanged for real money, just like stocks. The only difference is that at one point you could create them out of thin air (for yourself) which you can't do with stocks. Since it's past that point for (enter legit % here) people, that point is well....pointless.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Given that there is no real basis of value and no long term data for analysis, I would compare it more to a gamble than an investment.

There is absolutely nothing behind it. It's literally nothing you're "trading." Even less than a fiat currency. Just a file on a computer.

It's ridiculous that people are buying this and that the economically illiterate media is hyping it up.

If the illiterate are hyping something up which causes increase in value and the item in question can be converted to real currency then there is a potential for gain.

I submit that more traditional investments aren't based on reality either. Commodities are driven by perception as much as supply and demand. Oil is a prime example. Stocks? When prices shoot up are they backed by an equal increase in real value? Are they based on the value of the company in any asset increasing way? If a company went under would you get your investment back? No, you would not. What one trades in is perception, the "hype" of Apple for example.

None of that is to say that putting money into bitcoins is a good thing, but if one is able to get in low and get out high, it's physical status is irrelevant. If one understood that the publicity of bitcoins would increase value, real money could be made. If not, or one moved at the wrong time then a good screwing would be had.

In any case the prudent move with investments is to not commit to what one cannot afford to lose. The more stable a situation the more one might risk with a reasonable expectation of a lower return, but that's the nature of things.

 

[Alienwho]

And about the fluctuating in value: Of course it's fluctuating as people are testing the waters to figure out if it's actually worth anything. Go back to the civil war and try to spend your confederate dollars up north and get laughed at. Then go back south and buy your dinner with it. Just because THE GOBERNMENT OOOHHHH didn't acknowledge the confederate dollar does not change the fact that it was viewed as real currency to somebody else (who didn't acknowledge the legitimacy of the government, might I add). I'm sure the King of England laughed at the thought of accepting a US dollar as real currency a few centuries ago as well.

My point is people choose to believe what has value, and just because your eyes are blinded to the possibility of a non government backed currency doesn't mean everyone else is.

 

[JMapleton]

The people choose to give it support and value the currency, governments don't do that. Whether you believe in the government that supports a specific currency or whether you bypass the government and support a specific currency yourself makes no difference. If the entire world lost faith in the US government tomorrow the US dollar would become worthless overnight as countries dump their US debt. In fact these countries don't even have to stop believing in the US Government, they could play financial terrorists by making a collective decision to dump the US dollar for no reason.

The "people" do not support it. A crowd of speculators and traders temporarily support it's trading price while they use the media to hype it up. It goes up, they sell, and the general public is left holding the bag when they realize they've just bought a glorified computer file.

The "people" do not support this anymore than they supported the price of pogs or "tickle me Elmos." In fact, this item has even less use because 99% of the people who buy it just buy it to trade it, not even to use it for it's intended purpose.

It's a product that you cannot touch. No one uses (save a few drug dealers). And that the world governments hate. Yeah, that's something I want to buy.

 

[JMapleton]

And about the fluctuating in value: Of course it's fluctuating as people are testing the waters to figure out if it's actually worth anything. Go back to the civil war and try to spend your confederate dollars up north and get laughed at. Then go back south and buy your dinner with it. Just because THE GOBERNMENT OOOHHHH didn't acknowledge the confederate dollar does not change the fact that it was viewed as real currency to somebody else (who didn't acknowledge the legitimacy of the government, might I add). I'm sure the King of England laughed at the thought of accepting a US dollar as real currency a few centuries ago as well.

Worst example ever. It fluctuates because it has no basis for value and there is hardly no one actually using it for economic transactions, therefore there is nothing to base the value off of. There is no frame of reference.

There is no logical reason it couldn't sell for $1 each or $1,000,000 each.

There is no legitimate economic activity going on at all to base the value off of.

Do you understand economics at all?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

And about the fluctuating in value: Of course it's fluctuating as people are testing the waters to figure out if it's actually worth anything. Go back to the civil war and try to spend your confederate dollars up north and get laughed at. Then go back south and buy your dinner with it. Just because THE GOBERNMENT OOOHHHH didn't acknowledge the confederate dollar does not change the fact that it was viewed as real currency to somebody else (who didn't acknowledge the legitimacy of the government, might I add). I'm sure the King of England laughed at the thought of accepting a US dollar as real currency a few centuries ago as well.

My point is people choose to believe what has value, and just because your eyes are blinded to the possibility of a non government backed currency doesn't mean everyone else is.

Bad example. During the war, not even the Southerners would take confederate dollars because its fluctuating price made is worthless for economic transitions. People wanted northern dollars/ hard currency.

 

[JMapleton]

I submit that more traditional investments aren't based on reality either. Commodities are driven by perception as much as supply and demand. Oil is a prime example. Stocks? When prices shoot up are they backed by an equal increase in real value? Are they based on the value of the company in any asset increasing way? If a company went under would you get your investment back? No, you would not. What one trades in is perception, the "hype" of Apple for example.

It's clear you guys know very little about investing or economics.

There are two types of commodities, hard and soft commodities. Soft commodities are mainly food products, like coffee, orange juice, and wheat. This is obvious, the price is supported because people need to eat.

Hard commodities are mainly metals. The prices are supported because most of these metals have solid industrial applications. Supply and demand. Some of these metals are serve a dual purpose as an internationally accepted, government approved form of currency that has been in use for thousands of years. You cannot buy a bag of rice with bitcoins in Morocco. But I bet you the guy would take gold.

Stop. I know what you're going to say. "One day, that guy will accept bitcoins!!" False. Do you want a currency that can be hacked? That has no central monetary authority and thus can be duplicated? That can be lost if your computer is broke? Gold/silver maintain their values as currency because they have been accepted for thousands of years. Governments or computer hackers cannot duplicate them infinitely. They can be put in your pocket. They will not erode. They can be buried, passed down, and are accepted everywhere because they're engrained in the culture of the entire world.

Deep breath. Let's go to stocks.

When you own stocks, you own a part of the company. That company has an intrinsic value. It's called "book value." To sum it up, it's how much money you'd get if you sold everything the company owns and converted it to cash. Skyscrapers, warehouses, trucks, computers, patents, trademarks, etc. You own something. So yes, it's very different than bitcoins.

There is a reason why a stock like Berkshire Hathaway or General Electric would never trade for $1 a share. They have "book value." And if they did trade for that price, someone would buy it up immediately and break the company up and resell it for a massive profit. It's how the market works.

If the company goes bankrupt, you, as a shareholder, still have a right to receive something, and often times you do. So you are wrong in that regard. Granted, shareholders are last in line to receive anything after lenders and bondholders. But yes, you can receive cash if the stock goes bankrupt.

Apple has value because it's a name that produces a product that people enjoy using. Furthermore, they have real estate, a valuable workforce (yes, employees can sometimes have value), patents for products people use, and many many other assets that make them valuable.

You guys need to take a business class or something.

 

[baydude]

How do you purchase something for $50 with Bitcoin?

 

[Imp]

Bad example. During the war, not even the Southerners would take confederate dollars because its fluctuating price made is worthless for economic transitions. People wanted northern dollars/ hard currency.

Now you've done it...

 

[sandorski]

You can walk out your front door to go shopping with 1 BTC in your pocket. Whether you buy a Slurpee or a New Gaming PC is determined by the Market.

 

[KlokWyze]

JMapleton, You aren't completely wrong in the things that you say, but your arrogant tone is just GRATING to read. Not to mention, the grammar that you use to explain your points is just sort of broken.

Not sure why you harbor so much ill-will. Plenty of people get fucked in the stock market regularly. I get it now. You're an old timer who fears change. You're like Roger Ebert on video games. Bitter old wise and beautiful woman.

 

[JMapleton]

JMapleton, You aren't completely wrong in the things that you say, but your arrogant tone is just GRATING to read. Not to mention, the grammar that you use to explain your points is just sort of broken.

Not sure why you harbor so much ill-will. Plenty of people get fucked in the stock market regularly. I get it now. You're an old timer who fears change. You're like Roger Ebert on video games. Bitter old wise and beautiful woman.

No arrogance or ill will intended, only trying to be direct.

But again, bitcoin cannot be compared to the stock market. When you own a bitcoin, you own nothing. Absolutely nothing. This is the literal definition of a pyramid scheme.

 

[AViking]

The hatred for bitcoin just seems irrational and short sighted.

I sold my car recently, I would have loved to accept bitcoin for it. No hassling with the banks or checks and waiting days for the money to clear.

I'll bet that by the end of 2014 bitcoin will be as widely accepted and normal as paypal. Then why would anybody EVER use paypal again? No more paypal fees! What's so hard to understand about this scenario?

Overstock.com just announced they'll be accepting bitcoin in 2014.

Paypal and Bitcoin are middlemen that are not needed. I don't buy anything using either and see no reason to. I don't need western union or a pawn shop either.

Two ways to do business. Cash or credit. Bitcoin is neither. So in order to do business you need to convert from cash into bitcoins and vice versa. That's domestically. If you're doing international business you need to convert more.

Somehow you have grown impressed by really benign things like being able to avoid using paypal. You can already do that. It's called cash or credit. If you pay off your credit card bill every month you have zero fees.

 

[Train]

Paypal and Bitcoin are middlemen that are not needed. I don't buy anything using either and see no reason to. I don't need western union or a pawn shop either.

Two ways to do business. Cash or credit. Bitcoin is neither. So in order to do business you need to convert from cash into bitcoins and vice versa. That's domestically. If you're doing international business you need to convert more.

Somehow you have grown impressed by really benign things like being able to avoid using paypal. You can already do that. It's called cash or credit. If you pay off your credit card bill every month you have zero fees.

You've obviously only dealt with the consumer side of a transaction. Credit is not free.