Lollipop thread (Android 5.0)

[BeeBoop]

Thanks. I'll try it next year.

 

[lopri]

I had no idea the Nexus 5 is already capable of capturing RAW data thanks to Lollipop. Wow. Even before the Nexus 6? Is this the first smartphone camera that does RAW?

http://imgur.com/a/qQkkR#0

 

[Eug]

I wish Nexus owners on a tech enthusiast forum would stop whining like babies and just install the OTA's themselves.

No unlock necessary, no root needed, and no data lost.

Count me in amongst the whiners. This is yet another example of why I think Google needs to work harder on user friendliness.

And yeah, my stock Nexus 7 STILL has no notification for an update.

 

[sweenish]

I'm not saying that the way Google pushes updates doesn't need work.

I'm saying, if you're on this forum and own a Nexus device, the constant moaning about a lack of an OTA is pathetic.

 

[Eug]

I'm not saying that the way Google pushes updates doesn't need work.

I'm saying, if you're on this forum and own a Nexus device, the constant moaning about a lack of an OTA is pathetic.

Why? Do you really think it's normal to need to download developer type tools to do a friggin OS update?

 

[razel]

I had no idea the Nexus 5 is already capable of capturing RAW data thanks to Lollipop. Wow. Even before the Nexus 6? Is this the first smartphone camera that does RAW?

http://imgur.com/a/qQkkR#0

Nice! It's a Lollipop API that now supports RAW. I'm pretty sure that before if the image sensor, driver and app supports RAW it was available. Now there's a standardized/easy way to get it from the OS level so you may see more camera apps that support RAW and MAYBE more phones as well.

 

[Graze]

Why? Do you really think it's normal to need to download developer type tools to do a friggin OS update?

Its not but at least you have the option if your first choice doesn't workout

 

[quikah]

I had no idea the Nexus 5 is already capable of capturing RAW data thanks to Lollipop. Wow. Even before the Nexus 6? Is this the first smartphone camera that does RAW?

http://imgur.com/a/qQkkR#0

No. The Nokia Lumia 1020/1520 have had raw capability since release. I believe the Nokia 808 had raw capability as well.

 

[sweenish]

Why? Do you really think it's normal to need to download developer type tools to do a friggin OS update?

I think that this is supposed to be a forum for tech enthusiasts. I think that Google at the least provides tools (which contrary to your attempt (developer type, so mysterious!), are not difficult to use or install) to allow people to remedy exactly the problem people are throwing fits over.

The OTA is out, and easily available for download. The trickiest part is getting the naked driver from xda installed, but that's just two google searches (one for the driver, one for step by step instructions for installing unsigned drivers) and the ability to follow instructions. I know that last part might seem difficult to a lot of people, but it's a ONE TIME setup, and you're good to go after that.

Again, I'm not saying the OTA process is great, I am saying we are posting on a tech enthusiast forum, and I would hope that a Nexus owning tech enthusiast wouldn't be such a pathetic whiner over something as simple as sideloading an OTA.

The Nexus brand is a dual purpose device. Pure Android with updates direct from Google, even if said updates aren't as timely as you want them to be, and the ability to do what you want with your device. To completely ignore an entire facet of a product's existence is a waste of money, and downright stupid. In this case, a situation has arisen for some users where the Nexus's ability to sideload OTAs would likely shut them up and overall be a good thing for them, but instead they whine and whine and whine.

And as a P.S., if you really don't want to mess around with "developer tools," get one of the many tookits available. I don't typically recommend them myself, but it's yet another option.

 

[Eug]

I think that this is supposed to be a forum for tech enthusiasts. I think that Google at the least provides tools (which contrary to your attempt (developer type, so mysterious!), are not difficult to use or install) to allow people to remedy exactly the problem people are throwing fits over.

The OTA is out, and easily available for download. The trickiest part is getting the naked driver from xda installed, but that's just two google searches (one for the driver, one for step by step instructions for installing unsigned drivers) and the ability to follow instructions. I know that last part might seem difficult to a lot of people, but it's a ONE TIME setup, and you're good to go after that.

Again, I'm not saying the OTA process is great, I am saying we are posting on a tech enthusiast forum, and I would hope that a Nexus owning tech enthusiast wouldn't be such a pathetic whiner over something as simple as sideloading an OTA.

The Nexus brand is a dual purpose device. Pure Android with updates direct from Google, even if said updates aren't as timely as you want them to be, and the ability to do what you want with your device. To completely ignore an entire facet of a product's existence is a waste of money, and downright stupid. In this case, a situation has arisen for some users where the Nexus's ability to sideload OTAs would likely shut them up and overall be a good thing for them, but instead they whine and whine and whine.

And as a P.S., if you really don't want to mess around with "developer tools," get one of the many tookits available. I don't typically recommend them myself, but it's yet another option.

I rest my case. That post exactly illustrates how ludicrous this update process is.

 

[sweenish]

You rest your case with a strawman fallacy? That's nice.

The fact is that my post does nothing but present the fact that there are more than one way to get an OTA. Did I ever defend the OTA method as implemented by Google? No, I did not. Did I try to sugar coat the sideloading process? No, I did not. I say up front that getting it set up can be tricky. Did I mention that even though it's tricky, it should only take all of 15 minutes? Within 30 minutes, your phone will be updated to the latest version of Android, and the person comes away with a little extra knowledge. How is that ludicrous? Would you rather people didn't have extra options available at their disposal?

I'll even gone so far as to post the commands you use in adb. I've posted much more thorough tutorials on this forum before.
1. adb devices (not required, but nice)
2. adb reboot recovery
3. adb devices (still not required, but still nice)
4. adb sideload update.zip (renaming the file makes this step super easy)

And again, adb itself requires no install, just the file. The driver is the only tricky part, and there are plenty of guides that will show anyone how to install it regardless of OS. At that point, it merely takes a little bit of time.

And you call that ludicrous? The fact is, I have the option. If I am really that impatient, I can take matters into my own hands. And that's always ever been the point of my posts about the whiners. They refuse to take matters into their own hands, and instead feel like they're better served throwing a hissy fit. If this were facebook or some low level enthusiast site, it would bother me less.

Meanwhile, you feel like you can argue against that by saying that the OTA process is stupid (strawman because that's not the argument at hand), "developer type tools" shouldn't be "normal" (might still be a strawman, it's putting words into my mouth at the least because I wasn't saying it was "normal", I was presenting an option to shut people up. Doesn't help that you think they're so complicated when they're not), and now you "rest your case," except you've not once made an actual counter-argument. At worst, you've tried to present logical fallacies as counters. At best, you rest your case without actually having a case.

Is adb not an option? Could they not sideload the OTA and keep their data? Did I not say I wasn't defending the OTA process (it is not the best, I've never tried to say otherwise)? Did I not admit that getting everything (read: the driver) set up to sideload can be tricky?

I should elaborate on tricky. Tick a setting, reboot, toggle an option, install driver, reboot. That's what I mean by tricky. Decide for yourself how tricky that is.

Those are my actual points, and I even included my caveats. If you're going to continue to argue with me, at least try to stick to the argument at hand. You might find that it's tougher, especially since my argument is not subjective.

I don't care if you don't want to do it. The fact is, you're not really allowed to whine and moan and be a sad sack over it. If you want the OTA so bad that you've taken to being so pathetic that you whine on forums, you need to either sideload the OTA or re-evaluate your priorities in life. In either case, I am sick and tired of people whining and complaining and throwing hissy fits in a thread that could otherwise be a constructive discussion of Lollipop's strengths and weaknesses.

Saying that Google's OTA process is broken is one thing, the pathetic posts that have taken over this thread are not that.

 

[Eug]

Haha. You're just digging yourself deeper. You sound like those Linux on the desktop guys from 2004.

Sorry sweenish, I call them as I see them. This OTA process is stupid, but saying you're not allowed to complain about it because it's possible to use developer tools to deal with it utilizing a tricky process is just ridiculous.

 

[openwheel]

Eug is just here to complain about anything Android so all logic goes into one ear and out the other. Everything has to be the Apple way or fail. That's his/her mentality. He/She has to complain about something....right? I mean, how can new software actually makes the device better? Oh wait, that doesn't happen to his/her iDevices.

Lollipop 5.0.1 is absolutely fantastic and my Nexus 7 FHD was updated quick enough (not on the 1st day of roll out, but quick enough).

 

[Chiropteran]

Haha. You're just digging yourself deeper. You sound like those Linux on the desktop guys from 2004.

Sorry sweenish, I call them as I see them. This OTA process is stupid, but saying you're not allowed to complain about it because it's possible to use developer tools to deal with it utilizing a tricky process is just ridiculous.

Or... you just wait a day or two, and you get the updated pushed to you.

It's this entitled generation thinking everything has to be NOW NOW NOW for ME ME ME. Learn a tiny fraction of patience and you can get your update without using any of the "hard" developer tools.

 

[Childs]

Or... you just wait a day or two, and you get the updated pushed to you.

It's this entitled generation thinking everything has to be NOW NOW NOW for ME ME ME. Learn a tiny fraction of patience and you can get your update without using any of the "hard" developer tools.

Has it been released to everyone yet? The main reason to buy a Nexus versus some other brand is the guarantee you get the vanilla Google updates. The main issue is that it was rolled out to some, and not others. A customer shouldn't really be expected to put their production device in developer mode and manually install an update. I don't think anyone would be complaining if Google allowed everyone to update at once, or released a schedule or explanation as to when who is getting what.

I'm an impatient person, so I did it manually, but I'm also not afraid to do it. I think most people don't treat their stuff like legos, especially if for them the $200-300 it cost to buy is a lot of money. I mess it up, so what, throw it in the gutter, go buy another. If I relied on it for anything important I probably would have waited for an official rollout.

 

[Chiropteran]

Has it been released to everyone yet? The main reason to buy a Nexus versus some other brand is the guarantee you get the vanilla Google updates.

For all other devices, it has.


It was pulled from the 1st gen Nexus 7 because of issues. I believe related to the memory leak bug and the fact that the 1st gen Nexus 7 had weaker hardware to begin with. Apparently it will still get updated, but only later when the memory leak has been fixed.

Google standard OTA release is 1% first, then 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%. This is so if an issue comes up (as it did with the 1st gen Nexus 7), the OTA update can be stopped after the 1% release.

 

[Eug]

Or... you just wait a day or two, and you get the updated pushed to you.

It's this entitled generation thinking everything has to be NOW NOW NOW for ME ME ME. Learn a tiny fraction of patience and you can get your update without using any of the "hard" developer tools.

Lollipop 5.0 initially came out November 12 for my device. It's already on 5.0.2 now.

We're almost in 2015 now.

 

[openwheel]

Lollipop 5.0 initially came out November 12 for my device. It's already on 5.0.2 now.

We're almost in 2015 now.

You can thank Google you didn't get 5.0 and will get 5.0.2 instead. You are welcome.

 

[Eug]

You can thank Google you didn't get 5.0 and will get 5.0.2 instead. You are welcome.

5.0.2 came out Dec. 19.

 

[openwheel]

5.0.2 came out Dec. 19.

Oh MY GOD!!! D: D: D: It's been a hand full of business days!!! How dare those #$@kers take a vacation at the end of December.

Seriously, patience is virtue :thumbsup:

 

[sweenish]

Haha. You're just digging yourself deeper. You sound like those Linux on the desktop guys from 2004.

Sorry sweenish, I call them as I see them. This OTA process is stupid, but saying you're not allowed to complain about it because it's possible to use developer tools to deal with it utilizing a tricky process is just ridiculous.

Again, you don't even bother to argue the points.

Again, I never said the OTA process was good. Why do you keep repeating yourself? I already agree with this statement. I have since the beginning. You're not proving anything by constantly repeating it.

The process of sideloading the OTA is not tricky. Installing the driver can be considered as such. You keep changing what I say.

You also, by changing what I said, ignored the fact that I wrote the adb commands you would use. All 4 of them. 3 unique. And only 2 that actually do the job of sideloading. So tricky. No, wait, it's not. It's actually pretty straightforward. It was the driver install that I said was tricky, and I gave a brief overview of that, as well. What was it? 5 steps? Such trickery, that.

You keep ignoring the point that I've said it's pathetic for this forum. A tech enthusiast forum attached to a tech site known for it's greater technical knowledge and scientific approach to reviews.

You also don't acknowledge the type of complaining I wouldn't have cared about, and instead lump it all together, falsely. Google's OTA implementation is not fantastic. I've said it every time, and so have you. But you feel like I still have to be convinced of that.

My complaint is not about people raising a legitimate point. It's about the babies who won't even consider touching the tools provided that would alleviate their OTA issue. Here, of more places online than most, I would expect people to be able to spend 15 minutes setting up adb and the driver and do this thing themselves. The fact that they don't is just as pathetic as their crying.

You've now switched from strawman fallacies to ad hominem/red herring. You continue to make statements with no support. You continue to fail at the most basic level to make your point.

You're also not calling anything. You're making a bunch of misguided statements, trying to convince me of something I already know and acknowledge, and saying nothing in the process.

 

[sweenish]

Has it been released to everyone yet? The main reason to buy a Nexus versus some other brand is the guarantee you get the vanilla Google updates. The main issue is that it was rolled out to some, and not others. A customer shouldn't really be expected to put their production device in developer mode and manually install an update. I don't think anyone would be complaining if Google allowed everyone to update at once, or released a schedule or explanation as to when who is getting what.

I'm an impatient person, so I did it manually, but I'm also not afraid to do it. I think most people don't treat their stuff like legos, especially if for them the $200-300 it cost to buy is a lot of money. I mess it up, so what, throw it in the gutter, go buy another. If I relied on it for anything important I probably would have waited for an official rollout.

I want to clarify that at no point did I imply it should be expected.

At no point have any of the complainers and whiners taken the time to mention if they actually are stock, except for one or two. What is likely happening right now is that because of hotfixes, the rollout queues got reset. 5.0 OTAs stopped when the 5.0.1 OTAs became available. Sucks for them, but if they were this impatient, the tools exist for a reason.

Google has released a schedule, they use the same rollout method every time. That information is available. This point is moot.

"Developer mode" doesn't exist. Making the developer options visible and toggling USB mode is hardly "developer mode." It's not so radically different that only those that consider themselves developers should dare tread through those options.

If you relied on a Nexus for anything important, you could always recover using the factory images.

As I've been saying this whole time, the tools are available. The people moaning like babies have nothing to worry about, especially since the OTA doesn't require unlocking the device in order to sideload. And because of that, you can't even mess it up. It will work, or it won't.

I'm also not talking about your "average Joe" that tech enthusiasts are so ready to bring up. I have always been talking about the people who specifically are complaining on the thread and on this board in general.

 

[Childs]

I want to clarify that at no point did I imply it should be expected.

At no point have any of the complainers and whiners taken the time to mention if they actually are stock, except for one or two. What is likely happening right now is that because of hotfixes, the rollout queues got reset. 5.0 OTAs stopped when the 5.0.1 OTAs became available. Sucks for them, but if they were this impatient, the tools exist for a reason.

Google has released a schedule, they use the same rollout method every time. That information is available. This point is moot.

"Developer mode" doesn't exist. Making the developer options visible and toggling USB mode is hardly "developer mode." It's not so radically different that only those that consider themselves developers should dare tread through those options.

If you relied on a Nexus for anything important, you could always recover using the factory images.

As I've been saying this whole time, the tools are available. The people moaning like babies have nothing to worry about, especially since the OTA doesn't require unlocking the device in order to sideload. And because of that, you can't even mess it up. It will work, or it won't.

I'm also not talking about your "average Joe" that tech enthusiasts are so ready to bring up. I have always been talking about the people who specifically are complaining on the thread and on this board in general.

Even on a tech forum the users have different comfort levels doing different things. While there is nothing particular difficult about manually installing this update, if someone isn't used to doing that kind of stuff it may seem daunting. Anyways, some of the people waiting for the update might not have experience with this, but they may be stronger in other tech areas. I will agree that if it bothers a person enough to repeatedly post about it on a forum, then they should probably look into manually installing it themselves.

The forums in general have changed a lot over the years. More people are in Off Topic than any of the sub forums, except maybe the gaming ones. I don't think a lot of users even visit the main site. Also, maybe a good portion of the users have gotten older and don't want to fuss with these kinds of things anymore, they just want it to work so they can move on. I'm sure I'll be in that crowd in a few years.

 

[Eug]

Again, you don't even bother to argue the points.

Again, I never said the OTA process was good. Why do you keep repeating yourself? I already agree with this statement. I have since the beginning. You're not proving anything by constantly repeating it.

The process of sideloading the OTA is not tricky. Installing the driver can be considered as such. You keep changing what I say.

You also, by changing what I said, ignored the fact that I wrote the adb commands you would use. All 4 of them. 3 unique. And only 2 that actually do the job of sideloading. So tricky. No, wait, it's not. It's actually pretty straightforward. It was the driver install that I said was tricky, and I gave a brief overview of that, as well. What was it? 5 steps? Such trickery, that.

You keep ignoring the point that I've said it's pathetic for this forum. A tech enthusiast forum attached to a tech site known for it's greater technical knowledge and scientific approach to reviews.

You also don't acknowledge the type of complaining I wouldn't have cared about, and instead lump it all together, falsely. Google's OTA implementation is not fantastic. I've said it every time, and so have you. But you feel like I still have to be convinced of that.

My complaint is not about people raising a legitimate point. It's about the babies who won't even consider touching the tools provided that would alleviate their OTA issue. Here, of more places online than most, I would expect people to be able to spend 15 minutes setting up adb and the driver and do this thing themselves. The fact that they don't is just as pathetic as their crying.

You've now switched from strawman fallacies to ad hominem/red herring. You continue to make statements with no support. You continue to fail at the most basic level to make your point.

You're also not calling anything. You're making a bunch of misguided statements, trying to convince me of something I already know and acknowledge, and saying nothing in the process.

Perhaps I am an idiot. I already tried this weeks ago, and failed. However, I don't consider myself an idiot. Perhaps you do.

Setting this is up is in my opinion tricky, esp. considering some people recommend not using Google's own drivers. I guess you missed this, but I had already posted this in this thread weeks ago.

Yes, I agree with you that the OTA process is stupid. However, as should be obvious from my several posts that I disagree with you that it should be something every poster on this forum should be able to do manually and shouldn't complain about it. I will also reiterate that your arguments sound just like the 2004 Linux-on-the-desktop arguments.

Back in that period I said that Linux on the desktop was not for the mainstream, and was a problem for even advanced amateurs, given numerous installation and compatibility issues on lots of equipment. The Lotd types would then proceed to give long-winded instructions that might solve the problems, using 3rd party drivers downloaded from who knows where, and then criticize anyone who complained they were not successful with the Linux install.

 

[Radeon962]

No. The Nokia Lumia 1020/1520 have had raw capability since release. I believe the Nokia 808 had raw capability as well.

Include the OnePlus One as shooting in the raw.