Lonely and pure or together and making compromises?

[zsdersw]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/08/us/california-gay-eagle-scout/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

Obviously, the Boy Scouts.. as a private organization.. can set whatever membership rules they want.. so this post isn't about that.

Instead, I'm using the story to ask a question that comes into play all the time in politics:

Would you prefer to be ideologically pure and have few, if any, supporters or would you prefer to make ideological compromises and, as a result, have many supporters?

It's a question facing the Scouts as they double-down on their chosen membership criteria and face the increasing odds of being marginalized and sidelined, but it's also a question for all of you.

 

[Atreus21]

Having principles means you're going to piss some people off. If you never have to suffer for your principles, then you're unprincipled.

I think they only risk being marginalized and sidelined by those who care little for it beyond its utility in bringing homosexual politics to the fore.

Why don't gay scouts start their own scouting organization that lacks such criteria?

 

[zsdersw]

Having principles means you're going to piss some people off. If you never have to suffer for your principles, then you're unprincipled.

Being principled and being ideologically uncompromising are not the same thing, though.

 

[Throckmorton]

They're a Christian organization. They should ban gays, and so should every other Christian organization. The Bible is very clear that homosexuals must be put to death.

We need to stop with this illusion that religion can be tolerant. It's not. You cannot be Christian and support gay rights because you are defying a tenet of your religion.

Remember those liberal nuns? Instead of simply leaving the Catholic church, they pretended they could reform it. What good does kind of stupidity do? All it does is let these religions keep hanging on long past their time.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Being principled and being ideologically uncompromising are not the same thing, though.

They are the same thing. The difference is that "ideologically uncompromising" is the simply the synonym used by the opposition in order to try and make them feel victimized

 

[Atreus21]

Being principled and being ideologically uncompromising are not the same thing, though.

Then are these guys acting out of principle or acting out of ideology?

 

[Jaskalas]

The answer to your question depends entirely on the topic, I'll give two clear examples off the top of my head:

• I do not want compromise on the structure of our government, limited with enumerated powers, everything else given to the states.
• I do not want compromise on stopping the bankruptcy of this nation.

Just about everything else can be negotiated and/or worked out.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The Bible is very clear that homosexuals must be put to death.

Oh really? Apparently you haven't read the New Testament and/or have zero understanding of what it teaches. Your ignorance is astounding.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Quick Question:

Do you guys think that raising your son (or daughter) to avoid/encourage not being gay bad for them? If so, how is it any different than teaching them to not suck in school and raise them to work hard?

 

[Throckmorton]

Oh really? Apparently you haven't read the New Testament and/or have zero understanding of what it teaches. Your ignorance is astounding.

Nowhere did Jesus say anything about gays. He didn't repudiate gays being executed.

Last I checked, the Old Testament is still part of the Christian Bible.

 

[Atreus21]

Nowhere did Jesus say anything about gays. He didn't repudiate gays being executed.

Last I checked, the Old Testament is still part of the Christian Bible.

Last I checked the whole Thou Shalt Not Murder thing is in the Old Testament.

 

[zsdersw]

They are the same thing. The difference is that "ideologically uncompromising" is the simply the synonym used by the opposition in order to try and make them feel victimized

Having principles doesn't mean you don't make compromises.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Having principles doesn't mean you don't make compromises.

Principles are just like morals - they are self defined.

 

[Throckmorton]

Last I checked the whole Thou Shalt Not Murder thing is in the Old Testament.

Execution is not murder (also why Christians support the death penalty).

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh3.htm

• KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

 

[zsdersw]

Then are these guys acting out of principle or acting out of ideology?

Which "guys"? They're acting out of principles that are a part of their ideology, but having principles and having an ideology doesn't mean compromises cannot be made.

Chess; sometimes you have to sacrifice a pawn to take a more valuable piece in your goal of winning the game.

 

[zsdersw]

Principles are just like morals - they are self defined.

So is ideology.

 

[Throckmorton]

Which "guys"? They're acting out of principles that are a part of their ideology, but having principles and having an ideology doesn't mean compromises cannot be made.

Chess; sometimes you have to sacrifice a pawn to take a more valuable piece in your goal of winning the game.

What part of this don't you understand? They're already compromising by not killing gays.

• KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Last I checked the whole Thou Shalt Not Murder thing is in the Old Testament.

I doubt he really wants to understand anything as it may threaten his bigoted view of Christianity. I'm amazed that so many people in this "Christian" nation have little or no understanding of Christianity and are content to wallow in their willful ignorance. I don't get it.

 

[Throckmorton]

I doubt he really wants to understand anything as it may threaten his bigoted view of Christianity. I'm amazed that so many people in this "Christian" nation have little or no understanding of Christianity and are content to wallow in their willful ignorance. I don't get it.

Christians believe this is the literal word of God himself.

• KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

 

[pauldun170]

I'm too busy teaching my kids to watch out for blacks and feminists to worry about gays.

People really need to prioritize.

To answer the question..

ideologically pure and have few

This option just sounds like you believe what you believe and that's your own personal belief.
"I am wud I am...all I needs is me spinach"

would you prefer to make ideological compromises and, as a result, have many supporters?

This is for people who just want to a nice big mob to all agree with them.
"If all these people agree with ME then I must be right and I must be better than you!!"

 

[Atreus21]

Execution is not murder (also why Christians support the death penalty).

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh3.htm

• KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

The Mosaic Law prescribed the death penalty not only for homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13), but also for kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), bestiality (Exodus 22:19; Leviticus 20:15-16), murder (Exodus 21:12), adultery (Leviticus 20:10), prostitution and rape (Deuteronomy 22:24), out-of-control teen rebellion (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), witchcraft (Leviticus 20:27), and more. The list goes on.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Christians believe this is the literal word of God himself.

• KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Your ignorance is mind-boggling...please stop.

 

[Atreus21]

Which "guys"? They're acting out of principles that are a part of their ideology, but having principles and having an ideology doesn't mean compromises cannot be made.

I think you have it in reverse. I think they're acting out of ideology formed by their principles.

Chess; sometimes you have to sacrifice a pawn to take a more valuable piece in your goal of winning the game.

Perhaps they aren't playing this like a game. Perhaps they have rules and stick to them, with no long term goal in mind. I think using principles as a means to an end, instead of the end itself, is a good way to lose your principles.

 

[pauldun170]

Is there an official Biblical glossary?
That whole lieth thing is fairly vague.

I have to ask because I've fallen asleep on the train, parties, beaches etc ect next men and women and I don't want any crazy Christians trying to execute me for trying to get a little shut eye.

 

[Atreus21]

I doubt he really wants to understand anything as it may threaten his bigoted view of Christianity. I'm amazed that so many people in this "Christian" nation have little or no understanding of Christianity and are content to wallow in their willful ignorance. I don't get it.

Admittedly, I have little understanding of it myself, but that's my failing not the church's.