Lonely and pure or together and making compromises?

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Maybe I have no problem in saying the scouting movement can set the policies they want.

But when the American scouting movement wants to claim tax exempt tax status, and discriminate and legislate morals, yes I have a problem with that. As the fact is and remains, in ALL SOCIETIES IN THE WORLD ALWAYS Produce about the same 2-4% of fraction defective children who are instinctual Gay or Lesbian. And all the social pressure or education efforts can't change that fact. Maybe its because gay and Lesbians have differently folded genetic genes or what ever.

As for me, titties and beer, thank God I am not queer, nor is my opposite sex wife. Yah horrah we are in the 96-98% majority for a change even if we are usually in the minority for our socially liberal views. As we wonder why Gays and Lesbians, numbering something between 6 to 12 million in America alone can't find equal rights in America.

I have no fear that my wife will suddenly turn Lesbian, and my wife has no fear I will suddenly turn gay. Nor do Gays and Lesbians try to recruit us as they try to find comfort with others like themselves. Other wise they are just like everyone else, as Gays and Lesbians are just like everyone else, as they seek jobs and the American dream just like the rest of us. As the cause of Gays and Lesbians come from our own children.

But the real cause of my rant here lies in the fact, that its nothing but wicked for anyone to demonize and go out way way way out of their way, to make the lives of so many Americans even more miserable than they already are.

And if rat finks like the girl scouts and the boy scouts want tax exempt status like so many other nutty religious leaders, sorry social rat finks charlatans, no tax exempt status for you is and remains my political position. As they are and remain at the same position as the Westboro Baptist church spreading misery every time they open their mouths or have nuts and will travel.

As I have better things to do with my life than to make 6 to 12 millions American lives more miserable than they already are. As I have nothing but contempt for such socially diverse turds who pretend they doing the will of GOD when they are clueless.

As we can also ask how it worked for other societies who simply killed Gays and Lesbians in the hopes of breeding it out of the human genome, only to find the next and the next successive generation had the same percentage of Gays and Lesbian children. So we in America do the next best thing, by making their lives artificially more miserable. Is it working any better yet?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
But when the American scouting movement wants to claim tax exempt tax status, and discriminate and legislate morals, yes I have a problem with that.

But legislating your morals is fine?

And if rat finks like the girl scouts and the boy scouts want tax exempt status like so many other nutty religious leaders, sorry social rat finks charlatans, no tax exempt status for you is and remains my political position.

So you want to revoke tax exempt status of groups you don't like? Do you not see how this can be abused?

Why don't you at least grow a pair and start calling for sending your political enemies to Alaskan gulags.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,334
15,129
136
But legislating your morals is fine?



So you want to revoke tax exempt status of groups you don't like? Do you not see how this can be abused?

Why don't you at least grow a pair and start calling for sending your political enemies to Alaskan gulags.

No he wants tax exempt statuses revoked that discriminate or that try to push a political agenda.

Where you came up with take, I have no idea.
 

leper84

Senior member
Dec 29, 2011
989
29
86
Execution is not murder (also why Christians support the death penalty).

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh3.htm


  • KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

That's the old contract.

Hebrews 10:13-18 said:
Since that time [Jesus' death and resurrection] he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin

The Old Testament was a contract of law. The New Testament is a contract of grace. Killing gays is not an act of grace. If you're going to criticize, at least make a more accurate attempt.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
No he wants tax exempt statuses revoked that discriminate or that try to push a political agenda.

Where you came up with take, I have no idea.

He wants tax exempt status removed from groups he disagrees with.

Just imagine how happy the Republican Party would be to revoke tax exempt status from say planned parenthood for their "baby-killing agenda".
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
Back to the OP; as a private organization the BSA can set their own policies. I feel as time goes on they will be marginalized because of their stance on this as well as for other reasons. Can Scout leaders keep their sexual orientations to themselves and still lead, inspire and help guide young boys through the journey to young adulthood? Yes; my leader kept his orientation to himself for 30+ years; the things I learned about sex when in Boy Scouts and Explorers I learned from my fellow troop members and they had nothing to do with homosexuality.

I don't think the threat of being marginalized is sound reasoning for an organization to change it's views.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
No matter how much you may want it to be opposition to SSM is not a fringe belief.

Who is talking about SSM in this thread? Only you.

But that raising an interesting question for you. What do you feel is the compromise solution to same-sex marriage?

Start a thread about that and you'll get your answer.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
The question becomes: what is the cost of standing by unpopular or scantly supported beliefs and is it worth paying or is reevaluation of those beliefs justifiable in order to keep the organization afloat?

Again, that goes back to what kind of a principle it is. I don't believe you can "compromise" on your core principles, at any cost. In fact, early Christians paid for their Christian beliefs with their lives, and still refused to compromise.

The question we must ask ourselves is whether we can justify having those beliefs.

No, I don't think you need to justify your beliefs. You can (and should) evaluate them, but if they are your beliefs, then the price paid to adhere to your principles is immaterial.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
How about the threat of significantly reduced funding?

That's irrelevant. If you compromise your beliefs and/or principles for funding, then you stand for nothing and your beliefs mean nothing and you might as well not have an organization based on those beliefs.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
So you want to revoke tax exempt status of groups you don't like?

Yep, that's how many libs think, if they disagree with something it must be legislated out of existence. "tolerance" to them means "allowing everyone to agree with my position".
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
That's irrelevant. If you compromise your beliefs and/or principles for funding, then you stand for nothing and your beliefs mean nothing and you might as well not have an organization based on those beliefs.

.. in your opinion.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
.. in your opinion.

No actually he's quite right and I agree with him. Would you give up advocating for same sex marriage if you were maginalized for supporting it? No.

Beliefs/principles don't have price tags on them if they're sincerely held.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
No actually he's quite right and I agree with him. Would you give up advocating for same sex marriage if you were maginalized for supporting it? No.

He's right in your opinion.

It also doesn't cost me anything to continue supporting it (due in no small part to it being something that a majority supports), so whether I'd give up supporting it is at best an unknown.

Beliefs/principles don't have price tags on them if they're sincerely held.

.. in your opinion.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
He's right in your opinion.

It also doesn't cost me anything to continue supporting it (due in no small part to it being something that a majority supports), so whether I'd give up supporting it is at best an unknown.



.. in your opinion.

My point is that no matter what it could possibly cost you, you would hold fast to your beleif, so its not my opinion. That's expected of anyone holding to sincere beliefs.

So don't expect believers to abandon heart-felt beliefs under the threat of being marginalized or deemed "bigots" by folks like you.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
My point is that no matter what it could possibly cost you, you would hold fast to your beleif, so its not my opinion. That's expected of anyone holding to sincere beliefs.

Yes it is your opinion, because there is no way for you to know for sure.

So don't expect believers to abandon heart-felt beliefs under the threat of being marginalized or deemed "bigots" by folks like you.

Who said I cared whether they abandon their beliefs? I won't shed a tear if organizations like the Boy Scouts and various anti-gay churches/religious organizations lose so much funding they cannot keep the proverbial doors open, though.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,708
6,198
126
My point is that no matter what it could possibly cost you, you would hold fast to your beleif, so its not my opinion. That's expected of anyone holding to sincere beliefs.

So don't expect believers to abandon heart-felt beliefs under the threat of being marginalized or deemed "bigots" by folks like you.

You don't not be a bigot because of expectations, that only helps to keep bigots from transmitting their bigotry to others. You want to see that you are a bigot for the sake of your soul. Humanity has paid a terrible price for gay hatred, both in the damaged done to the hated but also to the haters. There is no soul joy living in the dark. You have been deeply programmed. You can't really be free like that. All the good you believe in, that you feel certain exists, does, but not how you think. Don't forget there are fathers who reject their own gay sons. The programming runs very very deep. You actually have to die psychically, to heal. It's not easy but it's better on the other side. Trust me.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
You don't not be a bigot because of expectations, that only helps to keep bigots from transmitting their bigotry to others. You want to see that you are a bigot for the sake of your soul. Humanity has paid a terrible price for gay hatred, both in the damaged done to the hated but also to the haters. There is no soul joy living in the dark. You have been deeply programmed. You can't really be free like that. All the good you believe in, that you feel certain exists, does, but not how you think. Don't forget there are fathers who reject their own gay sons. The programming runs very very deep. You actually have to die psychically, to heal. It's not easy but it's better on the other side. Trust me.

Oh, I get it:

I don't like gays = Bigot.

I don't like Christians = non-bigot

Gotcha'...
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,860
2
0
I don't think the threat of being marginalized is sound reasoning for an organization to change it's views.

Nor do I, I simply offered it as a statement of fact. It's happened to many over the years and will continue to happen; holding unpopular views has always had consequences for individuals and organizations.

Will this marginalize the BSA out of existence; probably but it will take a long time. I'm actually amused by the possibility of a BSA-like organization that had was open to people of all sexual preferences; it would be interesting to chart it's popularity and growth and see if x number of people leaving BSA equaled y people joining the open organization.
 
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