Look how far India has come

[raildogg]

I want to congratulate your on your generalized comment based on anecdotal evidence with a sample size of exactly.... 1.

*golf clap*

Your stats and debate teachers would be proud.

No, the general trend in India is to abandon everything Indian and to adopt the Western way of doing things. The more educated they get, the more self-centered, more greedy, more superficial they get. In other words, more Western. This music and movie industry is just a reflection of that. Not the other way around.

They went from producing subtle, romantic, maybe idealistic, songs to something totally different.

 

[raildogg]

oh look, another hate-on-India thread.

classic akshay right here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3c-k7svB-Q

Not hating on India at all

India is forgetting itself and being something its not. It needs to become genuine (like all people need to do). Enough of this Western imitation. You won't become them by imitating them. Maybe a lesser version but that's all.

Speaking of decent songs, I happen to like Vishvatma's songs. "Saat samundar paar"

 

[weirdichi]

You can't have a Bollywood thread without Benny Lava!

But I do enjoy me some Bollywood, but mostly for the sheer ridiculousness of it.

 

[madoka]

oh look, another hate-on-India thread.

What, are you upset you weren't the one insulting India? A couple of months ago you called India and I quote "earth's butthole."

 

[Perknose]

Your two examples don't show the evolution over time; here's one from 1987.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=f5Pjo0WjBcs

Wow. That was simultaneously painful and hilarious. I watched almost all of it, sure that it had to get at least marginally better.

It didn't.

 

[HeXen]

My wife and her sister love Bollywood. The ones they watch have too much singing and dancing and cheesy character interactions for my tastes. However the women are FREAKING drop dead perfectly gorgeous in them. I like some of the environments, reminds me of Prince of Persia or something.

 

[raildogg]

They don't make songs like this anymore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vnZUHRx8Q

 

[Perknose]

My wife and her sister love Bollywood. The ones they watch have too much singing and dancing and cheesy character interactions for my tastes. However the women are FREAKING drop dead perfectly gorgeous in them. I like some of the environments, reminds me of Prince of Persia or something.

The best set-piece dance scenes are both technically and visually awesome -- really top notch. You have to remember that Bollywood films are popular entertainment, not Chekov plays and judge them accordingly.

They remind me of updated 1930's Busby Berkely musicals on some mad mixture of acid and speed. I love and admire the set pieces, but probably couldn't sit through an entire movie. Eh, to each his own.

But even an aged white guy like me has to give them props for their energy, beauty, and dance chops.

 

[HeXen]

yeah, forgot how good of dancers they are. They must work crazy hard to achieve that, more than here at least imo. "you just got served" lol

But OMG, the women....the women people!!!

 

[mafia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNk2pG7agYE

 

[raildogg]

Indians, take a step back. Don't lose yourselves all at once. Following the current herd may not be the best thing. Your imitating makes you look shallow and petty.

Anyway, I doubt India will ever produce a song such as this, year 1991:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSa-wMyaRiU

 

[disappoint]

yeah, forgot how good of dancers they are. They must work crazy hard to achieve that, more than here at least imo. "you just got served" lol

But OMG, the women....the women people!!!

Many Indian women are indeed beautiful. In other news:

Some words that more American's need to learn so as not to become a burden laughing stock onto others nor ones self.

"Americans"

 

[manimal]

 

[raildogg]

?? whats the purpose of this

 

[Leyawiin]

You can't stop the inevitable. Globalization, after effects from British colonialism and too many Indians with relatives in the UK, Canada and the US (not to mention all those working overseas in general). They're going to incorporate the popular culture of places and people they're exposed to in to Indian culture. India's always been that kind of place (and I think its pretty cool they aren't some monolithic, somewhat xenophobic Han Chinese type country).

 

[raildogg]

You can't stop the inevitable. Globalization, after effects from British colonialism and too many Indians with relatives in the UK, Canada and the US (not to mention all those working overseas in general). They're going to incorporate the popular culture of places and people they're exposed to in to Indian culture. India's always been that kind of place (and I think its pretty cool they aren't some monolithic, somewhat xenophobic Han Chinese type country).

Yes, influence from external sources is very strong, especially when the person receiving the influence believes that the external sources are better. Indians have adopted the Western way very quickly, whether its the language, the economic structures, the educational system or even the judicial system. I won't even mention the entertainment industry since that goes without saying. However, I wonder if there is ever any second guessing to all of this. Whether completely imitating other people is the right answer.

As for China not embracing the Western influence, I strongly question that. The massive skycrapers, the uncontrolled materialism, the desire to acquire world power, the desire to go to the moon, all this technology. This is influenced by the West, either directly or indirectly. Consequently, the environment has taken a complete back seat. I doubt the ancient Chinese would have done this. They believed in a balanced life, a harmony between man and his surroundings. Same went for the Indian traditions. (However, this does not mean that they actual practiced the teachings). All that is gone.

But maybe this is the way of the world. We all need to imitate each other in order to live, in order to have something to eat. That each country must imitate the so-called powerful and wealthy countries. That if they don't imitate, they will somehow fall behind.

Appreciate your response.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Are they allowed to kiss on tv yet?

 

[reallyscrued]

No, the general trend in India is to abandon everything Indian and to adopt the Western way of doing things. The more educated they get, the more self-centered, more greedy, more superficial they get. In other words, more Western. This music and movie industry is just a reflection of that. Not the other way around.

They went from producing subtle, romantic, maybe idealistic, songs to something totally different.

Greedy, self-centered, superficial == western?

Fuck you.

I pretty much agreed with you up until you made that comment. You definitely hooked me in comparing a crappy recent song that lord-knows-who-sang to a Rafi/Lata duet, but now I see you are blaming the outside influence rather than the people who are to be blamed.

Indians are jerks? Damn. Must be western influence...

Hey - how's this: Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis are typically assholes. They fight over anything and everything, think they are the greatest race/ethnicity in existence, on average are very racial and do not embrace most of what makes America great. They come to America only for the jobs and opportunities, yet bitch about everything while they're here. As far as I can tell, they only come to America for money...so they are whores in my eyes.

My parents emmigrated from India. I was born and raised in the US. The neighborhood we live in is almost entirely Indian populated now...and not one person on this block has a sense of community. I can not look out my window and ever claim to see anything remotely resembling altruism. It saddens me, and I'm ashamed.

In order to become a naturalized US Citizen, you need to renounce all allegiance to any foreign nations. Most of the Indians that come over and become naturalized are baldy lying to the United States government and would obviously never fight on the US's side should a war every break out between India and America.

But all stereotypes and racial profiling in my post aside - I suppose you attribute this to *WESTERN* influence?

Fuck that. It's the REAL western influence that will turn things around and birth some OPEN-MINDED Indians for a change. We'll have the Aziz Ansaris and Russell Peters' of the world making jokes about how ass-backwards most Indian mentalities are, subtly teaching the next generation brown kids that their parents way of thinking is archaic and wrong. I love it, and I can't wait to the see the overall impact.

And Bollywood used to pump out art, now it's just money grabbing. What else is new. Phew.

/rant.

 

[Madwand1]

Ehh, You want good indian film, look at Satyajit Ray.

I've only seen one of his films, and on the topic of realism in Indian films this thread raises, his film was not just realistic relative to Indian films, it was human.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Movies...music...music videos. They do it right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Ve9sZWq8g

 

[raildogg]

Greedy, self-centered, superficial == western?

Fuck you.

I pretty much agreed with you up until you made that comment. You definitely hooked me in comparing a crappy recent song that lord-knows-who-sang to a Rafi/Lata duet, but now I see you are blaming the outside influence rather than the people who are to be blamed.

Indians are jerks? Damn. Must be western influence...

Hey - how's this: Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis are typically assholes. They fight over anything and everything, think they are the greatest race/ethnicity in existence, on average are very racial and do not embrace most of what makes America great. They come to America only for the jobs and opportunities, yet bitch about everything while they're here. As far as I can tell, they only come to America for money...so they are whores in my eyes.

My parents emmigrated from India. I was born and raised in the US. The neighborhood we live in is almost entirely Indian populated now...and not one person on this block has a sense of community. I can not look out my window and ever claim to see anything remotely resembling altruism. It saddens me, and I'm ashamed.

In order to become a naturalized US Citizen, you need to renounce all allegiance to any foreign nations. Most of the Indians that come over and become naturalized are baldy lying to the United States government and would obviously never fight on the US's side should a war every break out between India and America.

But all stereotypes and racial profiling in my post aside - I suppose you attribute this to *WESTERN* influence?

Fuck that. It's the REAL western influence that will turn things around and birth some OPEN-MINDED Indians for a change. We'll have the Aziz Ansaris and Russell Peters' of the world making jokes about how ass-backwards most Indian mentalities are, subtly teaching the next generation brown kids that their parents way of thinking is archaic and wrong. I love it, and I can't wait to the see the overall impact.

And Bollywood used to pump out art, now it's just money grabbing. What else is new. Phew.

/rant.

The hypothetical war you speak of, why should anyone fight another for their stupid little country? Please, leave all that flag waving to the so-called patriots. We've got enough of them with power in this world.

As for the rest of your post, you seem to assume a lot about what I implied. I did not say or imply that "Indians are jerks" because of Western influences. I said that the current Bollywood and Indian music industry is an imitation of the Western world. In the past they also took a lot of influences from the Western world but toned it down quite a bit. Some of of the songs show the subtleties and qualities of some Indian culture, which Indians seem to shy from these days. There was constraint; now its all about crossing the line and getting attention. Doing crazy stuff to get headlines.

You seem to focus narrowly on Indians being this or that; I'm sorry but this is our world now. Greed, personal ambition and success is all that is promoted. Whether its in the West, where it is the greatest, to the East. Also, do you think immigrants from China, Vietnam, Poland, etc. "worship" America or did they come here for probably the same reasons Indians came here?

You mentioned the word altruism. This is what it means: "the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others." That word is lacking everywhere, not just in one community. You are around that particular community so you see it more; but that does not mean its better elsewhere. Throwing money around does not make one altruistic. But that is another discussion.

I do agree with you in some ways. There is a lot of hypocrisy among the Indians though. But then again, there is a lot of hypocrisy among everyone.

As for the Western "culture" opening people's minds, I don't think its quite as clear as you imply. The Western people are just as "walled" up as anyone else, maybe even more so. But you won't believe this so I will stop it right here.

Ansari and Peters have their own agenda so I won't mention them. The Indian parents might or might not be wrong but it doesn't mean the alternatives are any better.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I've only seen one of his films, and on the topic of realism in Indian films this thread raises, his film was not just realistic relative to Indian films, it was human.

I've now seen 8 or 9 of his films.

My favorite is without a doubt, still, the Apu Trillogy. Any of the 3 parts are fantastic films about life, but combined, they make one of the best, if not the very best, film trilogies.

I recently watched another one of his films, a satire. It's called "The Holy Man", about a con artist. I think my least favorite of his films that I've seen, but still a decent film... It's all about people capitalizing on the superstitions and vulnerabilities of others and rational free thinkers "snopes-ing" the scammers out of town...

 

[OCGuy]

I was expecting to see a picture of indoor plumbing

 

[reallyscrued]

The hypothetical war you speak of, why should anyone fight another for their stupid little country? Please, leave all that flag waving to the so-called patriots. We've got enough of them with power in this world.

As for the rest of your post, you seem to assume a lot about what I implied. I did not say or imply that "Indians are jerks" because of Western influences. I said that the current Bollywood and Indian music industry is an imitation of the Western world. In the past they also took a lot of influences from the Western world but toned it down quite a bit. Some of of the songs show the subtleties and qualities of some Indian culture, which Indians seem to shy from these days. There was constraint; now its all about crossing the line and getting attention. Doing crazy stuff to get headlines.

You seem to focus narrowly on Indians being this or that; I'm sorry but this is our world now. Greed, personal ambition and success is all that is promoted. Whether its in the West, where it is the greatest, to the East. Also, do you think immigrants from China, Vietnam, Poland, etc. "worship" America or did they come here for probably the same reasons Indians came here?

You mentioned the word altruism. This is what it means: "the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others." That word is lacking everywhere, not just in one community. You are around that particular community so you see it more; but that does not mean its better elsewhere. Throwing money around does not make one altruistic. But that is another discussion.

I do agree with you in some ways. There is a lot of hypocrisy among the Indians though. But then again, there is a lot of hypocrisy among everyone.

As for the Western "culture" opening people's minds, I don't think its quite as clear as you imply. The Western people are just as "walled" up as anyone else, maybe even more so. But you won't believe this so I will stop it right here.

Ansari and Peters have their own agenda so I won't mention them. The Indian parents might or might not be wrong but it doesn't mean the alternatives are any better.

Wish I even had the energy to pick your reply apart. Let's leave politics out of it. That wasn't your original point anyway.

Western influence was in Bollywood way before the current 'sexual revolution'. Raj Kapoor borrowed most of his antics from Chaplin, Shammi from Elvis, etc. You're letting nostalgia cloud your vision; the western influence was always there. It just felt more original to *You*.

I'll agree to disagree for the most part. Good luck with that mentality of yours that Western influence is the reason India can't produce art anymore. Always gotta blame someone else, right? The British for this, the Americans for that...heaven forbid another country become very popular in entertainment and India starts borrowing ideas and you could blame that country too! But not the Indians, no no.

 

[OutHouse]

They don't make songs like this anymore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7vnZUHRx8Q

nor should they have. listing to a sound similar to a cat on fire is not my idea of music.