Look like the welcome is worn out already. Germany to impose border controls.

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Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
A Tineye reverse search quickly showed this is an image of ISIS sympathizers, back some year(s) ago, having NOTHING to do with the current wave of refugees.

Also...your comment is entirely stupid and out of line.

PS: If you turn on about 5 brain cells and look at the image, do those guys look like fricking REFUGEES?

OutHouse is a sack of garbage.

You must learn to phrase your outrage better. Just look at how several other posters responded for guidance.

Perknose
Forum Director
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Outhouse: Where did you get that photo? Were you duped by some ultra right wing "news" site?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,049
38,552
136
They could always try to emigrate to Russia. I'm sure Putin would be happy to have them. Or better yet, Ethiopia or Somalia, or Saudi Arabia, or . . . .

I think Russia is the ideal answer.

Assad is only there thanks to Putin, Russia has a small population given it's size, and it turns out they have lots of imported Western food they don't want to eat!
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,049
38,552
136
Outhouse: Where did you get that photo? Were you duped by some ultra right wing "news" site?


Not being able to recognize the ISIS flag, but attributing it to these refugees? Wow. Sounds like a great way to get people to ignore your input!
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
and you know this how?

Like the media and Germany would let anything ugly show up in public.


If you have photo proof of anything horrible please post it. Just know we will check its authenticity and well you know the rest :awe:
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
outhouses last post was today at 12:30 so it looks like he abandoned this. I always find it classy when someone comes back and owns it but I guess we cant expect that from his type. No wonder they lost the civil war.
 

siriuus

Junior Member
Jul 24, 2015
13
1
36
and you know this how?

Like the media and Germany would let anything ugly show up in public.

I know because I live in Germany.

And I can tell you, the problems which will come from this will be large, especially supplying adequate housing and job opportunities.

So there will be new and massive social housing and job qualification programs enacted in the next couple months. However, these are needed even without the current new refugees.
German politics are usually pretty slow (probaby because of our well known and often excessive perfectionism, up to getting nothing done at all), but in times like these things can be sped up if needed. As can be seen with the new border controls enacted and implemented in a matter of hours. Funding is not the problem, given that the state is running a profit of 1,4 % of GDP.

If done right we as a region should profit. The Syrians for example are higher educated than the german average, and pretty determined. So im expecting higher entrepreneurship (another thing germans momentarily arent good at) at least from this group.

After all, this isnt the first time a large number of people migrate. As far as I can tell the USA is one of the best examples how a nation can profit from refugees and immigrants in the long run. Be it because of war, religious oppression or a potato famine.

Edit: And dont get me started on my post count. I have been lurking these forums for the last 5 years, but the tech news are becoming to sparse and boring
 
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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
How about places like the USA stop destroying/destabilizing the nations these refugees are trying to escape from?

Instead try actual nation building instead of trying to merely stake claim to such an idea while in reality doing the opposite.
 

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,134
1,411
136
How about places like the USA stop destroying/destabilizing the nations these refugees are trying to escape from?

Instead try actual nation building instead of trying to merely stake claim to such an idea while in reality doing the opposite.

Yeah maybe when all PMC's and most arms combines get disbanded, until then the war economy rules the day in the USA.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
I posted this elsewhere already, but just in case...

Some weeks ago my parents had been to Munich to donate clothes etc.

They met some Syrians on a train, some had been here 3 months and my parents were incredibly impressed telling me "they spoke perfect German". (Which they learned here in school)

They also had some in that group which had been here for 3 or so years who obtained a secondary school leaving certificate (high school degree equivalent) here.

I am aware that generalizing ALL of them is a dumb thing to do, but those people CAN be *) extremely willing to learn *) educated *) willing to integrate by learning the language and going to school

The worst thing we can do is generalizing all those folks as "ISIS sympathizers", extremists etc....ironically those are the folks THEY are actually fleeing from.

***

"Closing borders" etc.

The refugees WILL be coming here and many of them sure have their mind set on "going to Germany" or Austria for that matter.

They already have a 5000mls journey behind them, they risked their lives and paid large sums to leave their area and to get to EU.

Do you think that any type of policy would stop them to find entrance, somehow?

"Closing borders" is not an option since (IMHO) the folks will try/want to get in anyway...having 10,000s of them outside, waiting, starving, dieing etc. is obviously not an alternative.
What EU countries must do is find ways to distribute the folks evenly so as not to create burdens on ONE country while other countries don't even take them and then of course proper integration programs.

THEY ARE HERE now, you can't change this fact and even more will come...so whether people like it or not...Europe will have to deal with this.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,582
2,946
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"Closing borders" is not an option since (IMHO) the folks will try/want to get in anyway...having 10,000s of them outside, waiting, starving, dieing etc. is obviously not an alternative.
What EU countries must do is find ways to distribute the folks evenly so as not to create burdens on ONE country while other countries don't even take them and then of course proper integration programs.

THEY ARE HERE now, you can't change this fact and even more will come...so whether people like it or not...Europe will have to deal with this.
It IS possible to deport illegal immigrants you know. Just because they got past border control (no big deal anywhere if you're determined enough) doesn't mean that you have to go 'oh well, they're already, nothing we can do.'

If a country is really serious about staunching illegal immigration, it can be done and in cases where you have so many immigrants it threatens to destabilize your economy, it SHOULD be done.

The problem is that very few countries, the US included, are really serious about it. But get back to us in a few years when you find out that a lot of these people aren't interested in assimilating and are becoming a drain on state resources. If you're really willing to pay even higher taxes and deal with all of the other problems that will be created, that's great. But I guarantee most of your neighbors aren't going to agree.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
It IS possible to deport illegal immigrants you know. Just because they got past border control (no big deal anywhere if you're determined enough) doesn't mean that you have to go 'oh well, they're already, nothing we can do.'

If a country is really serious about staunching illegal immigration, it can be done and in cases where you have so many immigrants it threatens to destabilize your economy, it SHOULD be done.

The problem is that very few countries, the US included, are really serious about it. But get back to us in a few years when you find out that a lot of these people aren't interested in assimilating and are becoming a drain on state resources. If you're really willing to pay even higher taxes and deal with all of the other problems that will be created, that's great. But I guarantee most of your neighbors aren't going to agree.

Wait a minute!

You cannot mix refugees and "illegal immigrants" into one pot.

A refugee who applies for asylum, based on VALID GROUNDS is a big difference to someone who migrates to another country illegally for "economic reasons".

You cannot have a policy where a "rightful" refugee from a warn-torn area like Syria can be granted asylum..and then talk about deporting or denying those people the right to apply for asylum. On what grounds would that denial happen?

I really want to underline that the "issue" of illegals coming into the US and refugees getting into Europe are two different shoes.

>>
a lot of these people aren't interested in assimilating a
>>

Possible. Possibly not. What else but speculating can we do?

All I know is that I lived in Berlin for ten years and there are some districts with a very high percentage of Muslims, Turks etc. I personally didn't have any problems and many of the folks there are well integrated into the culture. This, on the other hand was BEFORE 9/11 and the entire ISIS and extremists bull-shit.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,386
11,740
136
A couple of things I just don't get about all this...

1) Why do the countries "have" to take the migrants/refugees?

2) Why do the migrants/refugees think any country HAS to accept them?

3) Why do the migrants think any country owes it to them to (a) provide them housing, and (b) provide them with money/welfare/medical, etc.?

4) What gives them the right to pick and choose the country where they end up? Shouldn't they be glad if ANY country is willing to help?

Yes, things in many of the Middle Eastern countries are horrible for the "average citizen," but it's NOT the responsibility of the rest of the world to take them in, support them, and give them new lives. It seems like, all too often, these people go to non-Muslim countries, then demand that their beliefs are honored, all the while, refusing to honor the beliefs of their "host" nations...and bringing their problems with them...
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,582
2,946
136
Wait a minute!

You cannot mix refugees and "illegal immigrants" into one pot.

A refugee who applies for asylum, based on VALID GROUNDS is a big difference to someone who migrates to another country illegally for "economic reasons".

You cannot have a policy where a "rightful" refugee from a warn-torn area like Syria can be granted asylum..and then talk about deporting or denying those people the right to apply for asylum. On what grounds would that denial happen?

I really want to underline that the "issue" of illegals coming into the US and refugees getting into Europe are two different shoes.

>>
a lot of these people aren't interested in assimilating a
>>

Possible. Possibly not. What else but speculating can we do?

All I know is that I lived in Berlin for ten years and there are some districts with a very high percentage of Muslims, Turks etc. I personally didn't have any problems and many of the folks there are well integrated into the culture. This, on the other hand was BEFORE 9/11 and the entire ISIS and extremists bull-shit.
They were refugees when your govt was permitting them entry. But unless you haven't watched the news, you know that this is no longer the case. Your govt finally realized what a disaster it would be to continue that policy and reversed it - in record time I might add.

So there is definitely a difference between refugees and illegals but what you have from this point forward isn't a refugee problem but an illegal alien problem. Because the fact that your govt changed it's mind doesn't mean that all those people clamoring to get in are going back where they came from.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
but it's NOT the responsibility of the rest of the world to take them in, support them, and give them new lives.

It's not? It's not our responsibility to take-on refugees, say, if folks are coming from a region where their death or family member's death is a likelihood every single day?

So, they do not have the right to flee this area? They do not have the right to be afraid of being killed....and they don't have the right to think that they don't want to engage in whatever pointless fights...and chose going to a sane place instead without daily war and death?
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,582
2,946
136
It's not? It's not our responsibility to take-on refugees, say, if folks are coming from a region where their death or family member's death is a likelihood every single day?

So, they do not have the right to flee this area? They do not have the right to be afraid of being killed....and they don't have the right to think that they don't want to engage in whatever pointless fights...and chose going to a sane place instead without daily war and death?
No. They don't have the right to pick any country they want and demand that they be admitted. That's bullshit.

That doesn't mean that the rest of world doesn't have some moral obligation to provide assistance. The problem with that however is that we don't have a world govt. So the moral obligation only falls on those willing to recognize it.

But let's assume that most Western countries will recognize that obligation. That doesn't mean that we have ANY obligation to take them in. All we're obliged to do is keep them alive long enough that they can, hopefully, return to their own country. That means setting up refugee camps and providing them with humanitarian aid. THAT isn't a problem. Trying to integrate them into one particular country or even the entire EU IS a problem and everyone but the most delusional optimist recognizes that fact.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I'm not a human rights expert but I believe that the UN refugee agreement applies to the first Country they enter its not a shopping or comparison program.
I'm not from Germany either but they have obviously been very generous accepting displaced Syrian's. Nobody but a German should decide if its possible to accept more in Germany.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,582
2,946
136
I'm not a human rights expert but I believe that the UN refugee agreement applies to the first Country they enter its not a shopping or comparison program.
I'm not from Germany either but they have obviously been very generous accepting displaced Syrian's. Nobody but a German should decide if its possible to accept more in Germany.
The problem is that all of these refugees WANT to go to Germany although most are probably willing to settle for Austria. And the reason is the generous aid and benefits the German govt gives. This is a calculated choice. It's a little like you're starving to death but won't settle for anything less than surf and turf. Give me lobster or give me death.

And the German govt has already made their decision. We don't want any more of you so go away.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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^^yeah I know a woman who has family in Germany.
Point is its not reasonably to expect Greece & Turkey to house them all. Both have major problems of their own and its not reasonable for someone to shop for where they can stay.
 
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