Looking for 2015 Gaming PC advice

[h9826790]

Hi all, I am looking for some advice to build my real 1st gaming PC. So here is the info.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for - Pure gaming .

2. What YOUR budget is - virtually no limit, but of course, as low as possible. I can easily afford anything that cost USD$5000, I think it's not too limiting. And I am happy to play a little bit more to get really what I want.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from - Hong Kong, and any online store that can ship the part to Hong Kong.

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from - no link yet, since looking for a target PC in 2015.

5. IF YOU have a brand preference - No preference, but currently I assume Intel + Nvidia is the way to go.

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts - No old parts.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds - prefer highly overclockable. Hopefully the system can achieve what I want without OC, and the OC ability is my buffer.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using - 3840x2160, looking for gaming performance that can play at ultra setting (anyway, highest setting), minimum 30fps (NOT average) with 3D on. I am not trying to do anything that meaningless, but my TV is 84", 1080P simply not good enough for that size. I really want to able to fully utilise that $16000 TV.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it? - May be mid 2015. It seems that there are lots of new good hardware coming up. I think it's better to wait for few more months.

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software? - No, but if Windows 10 really have game mode, I think that's the way to go.

U. Any extra requirement? - YES, I want it to be very very quiet (water cooling will help?), and hopefully as small as possible. Besides, the output is HDMI (hopefully not by a convertor to reduce possible trouble), but not display port, because I plan to use it only with my TV that has HDMI input only.

Z. Any limitation? - Not really, open to any suggestions. My target is very straight, a very quiet pure gaming machine that can handle 4K 3D with minimum 30FPS in the most extreme setting.

Million thanks in advance. Happy Gaming!

 

[Ken g6]

WHEN do you plan to build it? - May be mid 2015

So, this is just speculative, then? For now, I suggest you look at [thread=2414463]the other recent money-is-no-object build thread[/thread]. Water cooling should help with noise.

I plan to use it only with my TV that has HDMI input only

I hope it takes HDMI 2.0; otherwise you may not be able to get 30FPS 4K in 3D by any means.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for the speedy reply. I am seriously looking for that, after some studying, my conclusion so far it's only possible with a huge case (it seems a proper water cooling system, including water cooled GPU, will required a large case). So, may be wait for a bit longer, and some new hardware (better thermal profile) can make it better (easier to build a small and quiet powerful PC). However, I am not necessary to wait if I can achieve that properly with the current available hardware.

At this moment, it seems the 4790k + Titan Z in a small case is a possible way. However, I don't know how quiet is it (I don't want any fan noise during gaming with normal Hi-Fi, but not headset), and is it possible to handle 4K 3D 30FPS at Max. Anyway, I will study that thread.

My 1st idea is something close to this ($3141):

Silverstone RVZ01
ORIGIN PC High-Performance Ultra Silent Fans - Black
ASUS Z97I-PLUS (Bluetooth/WiFi Onboard)
ORIGIN FROSTBYTE 120 Sealed Liquid Cooling System for 1150 Socket
Intel Core i7 4790K Quad-Core 4.0GHz (4.4GHz TurboBoost)
850 Watt EVGA Supernova 850 G2
Single 12GB NVIDIA GTX Titan Z
16GB ORIGIN PC powered by HyperX 2133Mhz (2x8GB)
Genuine MS Windows 8.1 Professional 64-Bit Edition
4TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive
(It seems this case (RVZ01) is small enough, and I can place it next to my XB1 horizontally in front of my TV)

Thanks for concerning about the HDMI standard. In fact, I am not sure how 3D game works. My TV has NO HDMI 2.0, and it's manual clearly state that I can only get 3840x2160 30FPS signal via the HDMI input. I play it with my XB1 / PS4, some game was locked at 30PFS anyway, and I decided that I can accept this frame rate, so I start to look for a PC that can drive UHD at 30PFS with max setting.

If 3D games works the same way as 3D movie (e.g. the graphic card produce a frame that with 2 images side by side), then I assume that 30FPS signal should able to get into my TV at UHD via HDMI 1.4, but the effective resolution will only be half of that (1920x2160 but with 3D). And it seems that the TV manufacture has a programme to let me upgrade my TV to HDMI 2.0 standard. It's not available in my home town yet, but once it's avail, I will take that straight away.

Update 1: It seems RVZ01 is very noisy in game, so a no go for me. And now looking for another one, total $3835

Rackmount 4U Chassis with rails
ORIGIN High-Performance Ultra Silent Fans - Black
ASUS Z97 WS
ORIGIN FROSTBYTE 360 Sealed Liquid Cooling System for 1150 Socket
Intel Core i7 4790K Quad-Core 4.0GHz (4.4GHz TurboBoost)
1000 Watt Corsair RM1000
Dual 4GB NVIDIA GTX 980
16GB ORIGIN PC powered by HyperX 1600Mhz (2x8GB)
Genuine MS Windows 8.1 Professional 64-Bit Edition
4TB Seagate Solid State Hybrid Drive

This Rackmount 4U Chassis is much bigger (very long), however, I can still easily place it horizontally in my living room in front of the TV. And it seems this Chassis run much quieter than the RVZ01.

 

[mfenn]

Looking at some benchmarks it seems like GTX 980 SLI can handle 4K (non-3D) fairly well in most games, so the build in the other thread is directly applicable to you. That GPU setup should be able to render the game at a higher rate than you can push over HDMI < 2.0.

3D would push beyond GTX 980 SLI, but Ken's point is valid: 4K 3D is pretty much not something you can actually send to your TV right now (not to mention that the 3D gaming fad is pretty much over anyway).

 

[h9826790]

So, if I want to play anything at 3D, the graphic card will work twice harder. Because it draw everything in UHD, and draw everything twice (for both left and right eye), and then reduce the picture size (e.g.1920x2160), put them together to make a side by side (or other format) picture at 3840x2160, and then sent it to the TV (30 times per second). Isn't it?

I'd go through that thread. It seems 980SLI is the best way to go. However, that will required a bigger case. Hopefully there will be a dual GPU graphic card like the Titan Z but with the 980. And even though that exist, I may still need to give up the 3D gaming, but only max setting at UHD.

 

[Nhirlathothep]

man there are no 4k 3d cables on the planet atm, u cant play 4k 3d.
The best that u can do is 4k 60hz.

Gotta wait for the new hdmi 2.0.

Consider this: the new 5k imac cant be used as target display with any mac pro just because the actual thunderbolt 2 cable cant handle 5k 60hz.
The new Thunderbolt 3 (not yet released) will support 5k 60hz

 

[DigDog]

speculative thread is speculative. also, money is no object threads tend to go trollside pretty fast.

anyway..

one issue i can think of is that playing on a 84 inch means you will be using a controller, not mouse+kb. think limits the games you will be playing and cuts down the power requirements.

if you want to play on a desk, and money is no object, we'd generally go for 3x monitors in portrait mode; there's different kinds of monitors depending on what games you like, such as IPS for more cinematic games, and G-sync for reflex-based games.

but, you have a big TV already, so you'll probably want to use that. in which case, even a single 980 should be fine. two 970 or even two 980s would make sure you can max out the top titles.

as for the case, *if* you want to go with two 970/980, you'll need some way to get rid of the extra heat (which a single 980 probably won't need). this adds to the cost and complexity, but there are solutions which are less extreme than a full blown water rig.

which is an issue in itself. while assembling a PC is easy, assembling a full water loop is not, and the number of parts which have to be matched for compatibility raises substantially, to the point where you might want to pay someone to assemble it for you (not a company, but rather a custom builder).

and you'll need a case, with the size being proportional to the heat + electricity, not to the size of components.

TLDR:
you can have midrange gaming on that TV of yours (less-than-ultra settings, less than 60fps) with not much money (two grand) and no hassle.
or you can go full potato. read the whole post to decide which kind of potato you want.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for your comment, DigDog.

Yes, I will use controller but not mouse or keyboard. I am totally OK for that to play BF4, Metro, TR, etc.

I prefer to sit on my sofa, and play games on my TV. I don't want to spend money on something that I don't need. So not the 3x monitors setup at this moment (still thanks for this advice), and I can't afford the space to do it. Space just too expensive in Hong Kong . On the other hand, I don't want to limit my chance to get what I want just because of a bit extra money, so I decided to call it virtually no budget limit (we are just talking about thousands:thumbsup:, not millions:thumbsdown: anyway).

Since I can only get UHD 30Hz into my TV via HDMI 1.4. So, do you think that I don't need the power to have UHD 60FPS, but only minimum 30FPS is enough? Or even though the HDMI only works at 30Hz, but I will still get better experience if the GPU can deliver 60FPS? (I am ok for 30FPS game, not the best experience even, but I can accept it, as long as it's not lower than 30FPS)

I am still a bit confuse by the 4K 3D stuff. I know what is 4K 30Hz or 4K 60Hz, but is that really matter when talking about 3D? I think 3D just means that every frame contain 2 pictures, and it may looks 2 narrower picture side by side. However, it still just one 4K frame, you don't need to double the bandwidth to transfer 3D signal. So, still using the same cable, isn't it? I may be totally wrong. I haven't started to study the 3D stuff yet. But at this moment, I assume that 3D is just a matter of the GPU power, but irrelevant to the bandwidth of the cable. If I can get 4K 30Hz signal to my TV, that means I can play 4K 3D games up to 30FPS, isn't it?

If 3D will make it extremely hard to achieve (e.g. because of a full water loop big case required, or PC game handle 3D in a different way than I believe), I can drop this out from the list. But 4K, max setting, absolute minimum 30FPS, small + quiet still my goal. I doubt if a single 980 can achieve that, and if 980 SLI will start to make thing complicated.

 

[h9826790]

Consider this: the new 5k imac cant be used as target display with any mac pro just because the actual thunderbolt 2 cable cant handle 5k 60hz.

I know, but is it 3D related? My understanding is...

1) UHD 30Hz in 2D = 30 3840x2160 pictures in 1 second

2) UHD 30Hz in 3D = 30 3840x2160 pictures in 1 second, but every picture contain 2 narrower picture (1920x2160) side by side (or other format). Then the TV will stretch each half picture back to full size, and display 2 pictures at the same time to my left and right eye independently (my TV use passive 3D technology - Cinema 3D)

Or, for computer games, the computer will actually draw every single frame in 3840x2160 for both let and right eye, and sent them all to the TV, so it will require to double the bandwidth?

I have no idea about 3D game, I just know that the TV can recognise and display 3D movie when the picture is in side-by-side or top-and-bottom format etc. I don't know if there is any format is actually using odd-and-even frame to deliver 3D signal.

 

[DigDog]

the thing with frames per second is, you cannot distinguish anything over 24fps(not entirely true,but lets leave it here for a sec as this is the established consensus). but, you can sense the difference during gameplay.
this just means that 30fps is all you need unless you are "wired" to your PC. being a player who needs 100fps+ to perform takes dedication and concentration. we're talking dreamhack level. not sitting on the couch.

so lets start with assuming you will play with controller, on the TV.

as i see from a quick googling, you have 3840 x 2160 as native resolution. (i'm no expert in SLi solutions but) i think 2x 970 should be enough to drive that with ultra settings and all the frame rates you need - if you get 40fps, you'll be set.
plenty of people here can advise you on the ideal hardware to use for this res.

as for cooling and overclocking and water and all that, i'm not sure you need it. you can get a good silent case with AIO cooling and it will have no problem coping with a 5930k and two GPU. also, this build is easier, you can assemble it yourself for a couple grand.

oh btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p91e5wYDJWo

 

[piasabird]

Well if you are going for quality and don't mind slightly more expensive parts, You might want to wait for a DDR4 Motherboard and a high-end CPU. I have seen some information about Microsoft Windows 10 and there is suppose to be some more information coming out from the meetings scheduled for Jan 21's from Microsoft. Do not know if you want to wait till after January for Windows 10 or not. It might be nice to see if they announce anything interesting. An i7 6 or 8 core processor with DDR4 is possible if you want to go high-end. For gaming you want the best throughput, fastest RAM, best video card, and a good SSD along with maybe a high capacity hard drive or two for storage or backup.

However, I am sure that a lot of people will say to go cheap and save your money on the latest haswell.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for the info. I didn't follow MS closely, and good to know that some important may be coming up soon.

I definitely can wait, and willing to pay a bit more to achieve my goal (if that really help).

 

[mfenn]

I am still a bit confuse by the 4K 3D stuff. I know what is 4K 30Hz or 4K 60Hz, but is that really matter when talking about 3D? I think 3D just means that every frame contain 2 pictures, and it may looks 2 narrower picture side by side. However, it still just one 4K frame, you don't need to double the bandwidth to transfer 3D signal. So, still using the same cable, isn't it? I may be totally wrong. I haven't started to study the 3D stuff yet. But at this moment, I assume that 3D is just a matter of the GPU power, but irrelevant to the bandwidth of the cable. If I can get 4K 30Hz signal to my TV, that means I can play 4K 3D games up to 30FPS, isn't it?

The problem with this idea is that games are not coded to render like that. The driver could do the side-by-side compositing for you I suppose, but you'd still have to convince the game that it needed to skip every other column (or row as the case may be) while preserving the same aspect ratio.