Looking for an ergonomic keyboard

[Ojannen]

I am looking to replace my current keyboard with something a little more ergonomic. I am currently using a Dell AT101 from around 1997. It uses mechanical key switches with a definite click. I have become a huge fan of this keyboard style. Over spring break, I used a rubber dome keyboard at home and it felt awful in comparison. I have tried several standard ergonomic keyboards (microsoft and belkin) and the feel of the key placement is nice but I can't deal with the mushy keys.

From what I have read on forums here and in various reviews, the Datadesk Smartboard looks promising. I have a few questions about it.
I go back and forth between my home computer and lab computers at least a few times a week. In addition to that, I plan on getting a cheap laptop for the next school year because I will be juggling classes on two campuses. How hard is it to go back and forth between the standard layout and the new layout? When you switched tot he enw kayboard, how long was it until your typing speed was back up to normal? Is it a big difference andhow hard is it to go back and forth?
I am studying for a computer science major meaning that i spend 5-10 hours a week infront of my computer working on programming projects. I am concerned about the differences in key placement. Other than the, +/= key, are there any other character keys that have been significantly moved? Would you recommend this keyboard specifically for programming use?
Is this keyboard significantly better or worse when you consider the size of your hand? Is it a lot better for big hands? Are there key reach problems for small hands? etc

My final question 2 questions are, is there a better standard keyboard in the $100 or less range and is there a better ergonomic keyboard in the $100 or less range?

Thanks
-OJ

 

[Tu13erhead]

Peter, where are you?

 

[Peter]

Yes things ARE different. That's inevitable - you either get good ergonomics OR the same as it ever was. Point being that the original key layout hasn't been made for fast typing - it's been made to accomodate the mechanical needs of the original, lever-driven typewriter 100 years ago.

You're going to HATE the standard layout once you got used to the true natural one. Adaption to the SmartBoard is fairly quick, and you're going to be more accurate and faster.

I've got smartboards everywhere now (except on the notebook). After years of using them, I find typing on normal keyboards difficult and error prone; on the notebook, I don't type much so it doesn't really matter. The += key is on the left, but in return is one notch closer. You'll adapt. Cursor keys are obviously elsewhere, and the ins/del/home etc. is above the numerical pad. SysReq/Print/Pause are secondary functions to the F10/11/12 keys, kind of like on notebooks. (This is to make the keyboard fit into standard size drawers, and also brings the mouse closer to your right hand.)
There's a USB hub on the backside.

 

[spaceclamjr]

Microsoft Comfort Curve2000
its $20, its usb, ergonomic, and VERY quiet and VERY responsive
im not looking back!

 

[Peter]

It's NOT ergonomic just because the sticker says so.

The angle is way too small for anyone with shoulders, the key rows are in mechanical-typewriter-ish slanted rows, not in natural finger motion vectors, and the rubber mat base has ridiculously high key stroke force, which even grows higher as the thing ages and the rubber hardens.

There's a reason why that one is $20 and proper ergonomic starts (starts!) at $99. SmartBoard doesn't take it nearly as far as it goes, but it's by far the best one with a less than insane price tag.
Next step up are the Kinesis "contoured" boards, from $239.

 

[Ojannen]

Does anyone else have any other suggestions. I am getting ready to buy and so far the only keyboard that fulfills all my requirements is the smartboard. Although it looks very good, I would really like at least one or two other options. I specifically want to look at something in the 50 to 75 dollar price range as well.

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: Ojannen
Does anyone else have any other suggestions. I am getting ready to buy and so far the only keyboard that fulfills all my requirements is the smartboard. Although it looks very good, I would really like at least one or two other options. I specifically want to look at something in the 50 to 75 dollar price range as well.

You got little or no choice, especially that low. Look at the products at ergocube.com or sforh.com

 

[Ojannen]

I am ready to buy the keyboard but I have one final question.

How does it do with multiple key presses? I game a lot and have a weird control style.
F, G and A, S are used for movement.
E and V/space are used for jump and duck
W is my vent key

I need to be able to press any three or four of these at the same time, for example F+A+space, or G+S+space for crouching movement, or E+F+V for a duck jump. I also add W for vent periodically with all these key combinations.

How well does the keyboard do multiple key presses? I have had some problems with keyboards more than 5 years old and it looks like the design for this keyboard might be this old.

Thanks
-OJ

 

[Peter]

The USB version is mechanically identical, but quite obviously uses an entirely different controller than the original PS/2 version.

Let's see ... (USB version, purchased sometime last year. That would be what's on offer now.)

aassdddfffffffffffffffjjjjjkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
;;;;;lllllkkkkkkkkkjjjjjjjjjjjjjfffffffddddddddddddddddddddddddddddds
ppppooooooiiiiiuuuuuuqqqqqqqwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
11111222222233333344444447777777888888888888888888888888

Looks like the 7th key of a multi-key chord is being ignored. Holding five down and pressing a sixth still produces a result.

Note that the typical matrix wiring of PC keyboards (which this one follows, just like all others do) has tighter restrictions on simultaneous pressing of keys that are closer together - and which you wouldn't be chording unless you had eight fingers on each hand or so.

Worst-case combo I found in the past five minutes was three keys, like, you can't press W when you hold down Q, A and Z.

 

[Peter]

EFV works, so does EFVW.
GS[space] doesn't work when you use the left half of the space key, but does with the right half. Same for GS[]W

Looks like you'll have to adjust a bit ... may I suggest you use a scheme that doesn't use keys that are directly underneath each other? That can't possibly be quick anyway, given that you don't have twin rows of fingers on each hand either

 

[Turkish]

Peter, what do you think of this Microsoft keyboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16823109160

I used it at a friends house, and felt comfortable (though awkward because this was my first time trying a said-so *ergonomic* keyboard) and the price doesn't seem bad at all.

Any thoughts?

I am a 6'3" guy with pretty wide shoulders, and I tend to lean forwards on my chair when I am typing.

 

[Peter]

It's your average not-really-ergonomic keyboard: Non-split space key. Angle way too narrow. Slanted rows of keys (the oversized "T" and "N" keys are witness to this anachronism). "6" key on wrong side. And - if I remember the specs correctly - it uses a rubber mat, not individual key switches.

 

[Turkish]

So I guess I should take the $$$ out and get a Datadesk Smartboard? Its twice as expensive and is white, will take me back to early 90s when I first bought my x286 Is it really ergonomic? Like will I really feel the difference? I assume it will take me several weeks before I get used to it but I guess I can try and return it if I am not satisfied. Are there any websites with good return policies selling it? I checked Newegg and they don't hav eit.

 

[Steve]

You can try Datadesk's own website, or ergocube.com, or sforh.com (where I got mine).

And yes, it takes time to adapt but the difference is noticeable. To be honest, I wish it had other colors available. I have a few wishes for it (wireless, touchpad in wristrest below number pad, not so loud key clicks) but it is pretty good as it is.

 

[Peter]

I've had touchpad in wristrest with an earlier "waveshape" keyboard. It looks handy, but in real life it's getting in the way all the time.

I'll be trying the "Evoluent Vertical Mouse" next ... five SmartBoards and five such mice are on their way from ergocube (so I hope)

Turkish, you should make yourself aware of just how small the market for such actually ergonomic product is. Very few people are suffering and/or aware enough to appreciate progress here. There's your reason why we still have the same arrangement of keys that was deemed useful for the original typewriters - useful for the construction of the mechanical typewriter, not useful for its users. You should be glad that someone actually bothers making something better, not whine that it isn't available in your favorite color

 

[Ojannen]

Got the keyboard on saturday and these are my first impressions.

First, my typing speed is much slower. I am surprised by the difference in feel. I am expecting to get used to this soon though.

I use a slightly modified version of touch typing. I use my middle fingers much more than normal when typing top and bottom row keys. For t, y, b, and n I use either hand.

This is probably just me, but the f, g, h, and j columns seem a little smaller than normal size.

My biggest problems are w, e, and r on the top row. I tend to type one key to the left of what I want to press. To me, the b key is exactly where the v key use to be. When I first got they keyboard, I tended to press tab or caps lock instead of q and a. I have mostly fixed that problem.

Other than that, I am realtively happy with the keyboard.

 

[Peter]

Your W E R problem is exactly what this keyboard is about, and this is what takes the learning effort. You don't HAVE to move your fingers sideways to reach them.

A S L ; are actually wider than on normal keyboards, but yes, the bottom row is narrower than on the standard keyboard. That's the other (patented) point of the SmartBoard - your fingers move closer together when you curl them, and fan out when you stretch them. The fanned key layout reflects that.

Your right hand isn't affected as much, simply because the slant of a standard keyboard kind is as useful for the right hand as it is useless for the left.

And yes, split keyboards sort of force you to use "proper" touch-typing, no messing about with TYGHBN on the "wrong" hand

You'll also find that the key switches take a few weeks of wearing in. Of course, you'll only notice when you have a well used unit next to a brandnew one.

In a couple of weeks, you'll be lightning fast on the SmartBoard and type nothing but nonsense on standard keyboards. You have been warned

 

[Ojannen]

This is my response after a few weeks of using the keyboard.

The keys feel great. It is one of the top 2 or 3 keyboards I have used in this regard. Except for the noise issue, I have no idea why anyone would volunatrily type on a rubber dome keyboard.

It has taken me about 2 weeks to get close to my old typing speed on a standard keyboard. When typing on computer lab standard keyboards, I don't have a big problem but it is much less intuitive than before. My speed is much slower. I expected this and don't have any problem with it.

I would have prefered grouping the function keys in groups of four like a normal keyboard. or 4 - 2 - middle of keyboard - 2 - 4. On a standard keyboard, when I want to press F4 to close a program or F5 to refresh/compile, I identify the key by the grouping not the character on the key. Now, I have to stop typing and identify which key I have to press. A different solution would be to make the function keys two different colors. One color for f5-f8 and a different color for f1-f4 and f9-f12.

The +/= button move to the left side of the keyboard is surprisingly not a big deal. Igot use to it fairly quickly. This is a key a use a lot in programming.

As a touch typist on the numpad, moving * and / was pretty weird. I would have strongly preferred that they moveed the datadesk logo and added an extra row to the num pad.

Due to moving the block of 6 function keys ontop of the numpad, it is hard to do ctrl+alt+del with 1 hand

The caps lock light is on the key meaning that I cannot tell if caps lock is on unless I move my hands. Due to the slightly different feel of the keyboard, I found myself pressing caps lock in stead of A when I got it.

The backspace key feels much farther away than it should be. I feel like I have to move my entire hand to reach it instead of just stretching one finger.

I tried using the feet to raise the front of the keyboard. The third day I had them up, I broke one of them. I am someone who babies my stuff and most of it is years old and still in mint condition. I am surprised that it was so easy to break off the feet. Due to the fact that they are in the front of the keyboard, they need to support more weight. However, they seem like standard keyboard feet, made of plastic with no metal and very flimsy.

For the most part my experince is positive, and I would recommend it to anyone looking for an ergonimc keyboard in this price range.

 

[Peter]

Glad that you like it.

I've never used the flip-out feet. Did you use the small ones or the higher set? They're just snapped into the bottom, I'm sure Datadesk would be glad to send you a replacement if yours broke - and it'll be replaced in a minute, without disassembling the keyboard.

 

[RallyMaster]

Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000

I find that I type faster and more accurately with this keyboard. It has also eliminated the pain in my right arm that the normal horizontal keyboards were causing. Once you get used to typing with this thing, you won't want to go back to a regular one.

 

[essasin]

Originally posted by: RallyMaster
Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000

I find that I type faster and more accurately with this keyboard. It has also eliminated the pain in my right arm that the normal horizontal keyboards were causing. Once you get used to typing with this thing, you won't want to go back to a regular one.

I tired out for the smart board for a week or so and the angle of the keys was uncomfortable for me. Everything else was great but the angle was a little off for me. But, I happen to come across the ms 4000 and it feels great. The layout is nowhere near as nice as the smarboard but its a lot more comfortable for me.

 

[Cobolman]

I've used the MS Natural series for a long time now.

Reasonably priced, and far more comfortable than anything else I've come across. It's amazing how annoying a normal keyboard is once you've switched.