Looking for new Shoebox design

[Ninjahedge]

With the new AMD chip out and my 5YO Intel I5-2500K (3.3GHz) starting to show its age, I am looking to expand from my Silverstone and possibly get another that can last me 5 years (with a new card or HD!!!).

I am just a bit frustrated with DOOM blanking out (no warning, just >POOF!<) with an 8G memory/SSD system/ Gforce 960, that I am looking for something that may not only work, but fit into a form factor as compact as I have now (est 15" deep, 6" wide, 5" high).

Agreed, graphics cards take more room. I had to take the plastic "cooler" decoration off the vid card to fit it into what I have now, and it still, literally, touches front and back.

So the base question is where to start. I have done this before, but I have not had to in 5 years... so....

What is the best thermal paste and cooler?
What power supply is the most reliable?
What is your favorite color?

Seriously?

Just looking on where to start after all this time.

TIA!

NH.

 

[DaveSimmons]

You could just get a GTX 1060 to start with and see if the 960 was the only bad part. My i5-2500 with the GPU upgraded to a GTX 980ti is still going strong. The 1060 6GB is roughly 2 times as fast as your 960 for 1080p (if you have the 4 GB version) but might not fit your shoebox.

You should wait a week to see if the GTX 1080 ti release on 2-28 also includes price drops on the other cards.

 

[you2]

I would get a 1070 mini (zotac or gigabyte). They run cool aren't too expensive ($360) and fast as hell. Oh and did i mention they are small ?

 

[DaveSimmons]

I would get a 1070 mini (zotac or gigabyte). They run cool aren't too expensive ($360) and fast as hell. Oh and did i mention they are small ?

Good idea. The card can always be used in a full rebuild if Ninjahedge isn't happy with it in the existing build or if it isn't the GPU that's causing the blanking.

 

[Ninjahedge]

OK, this is what I did not look for when I posted the SAME QUESTION!!!

Please look at either and give me an idea of where to look, especially with the new AMD chip out now. It would be good to see if going AMD would be worth it.

All the PCWorld and Tom's articles seem to focus on the I5 and I7 Kaby's and not the AMD at all....

Lemme know guys!

 

[Valantar]

First of all, there are no socket AM4 (AMD Ryzen) ITX motherboards out yet. As such, if that's what you want, you'll have to wait. There's a thread in the motherboards subforum dedicated to rumors and launches of those. Also, the current crop of AM4 boards mostly fails one of your criteria: they rarely have more than 6 USB ports, which isn't what I'd call "MANY" USB ports.

As for articles focusing on Intel, that's simply due to Ryzen being brand-new, and the platform still having quite a few bugs that needs ironing out for general adoption. It's completely usable for most people, but bugs are to be expected barely a month into a brand-new platform. And more articles and build recommendations will come with time - this stuff takes time.

Do you have the thermal headroom to overclock your current CPU? If so, I'd keep it for a while yet - it shouldn't be a significant performance limitation unless you keep it at very low clocks. 8GB of RAM isn't really a limiting factor either - not yet, at least. With a new GPU, you should be able to keep your current PC alive for 2-3 more years.

If you're dead set on a full platform upgrade, I'd probably go for a Ryzen 5 1600X or 1600 (the latter only if you overclock it), as they're reasonably low-power, 6-core 12-thread CPUs that should provide excellent performance when they launch on the 11th. If gaming is your main use case, you'll get ~10% more performance out of an i7-7700K for ~the same power draw, but it's noticeably more expensive.

There have been quite a few attractive SFF cases launched in recent years, allowing you to fit high-end hardware into a tiny chassis. The Ncase M1 is very popular, and there's the Dan Cases A4-SFX is astoundingly small, but places pretty significant limitations on CPU cooling. Neither are cheap, but they're very good. Then there are more mass-market cases like the SilverStone Raven RVZ02 that aren't quite as nice looking or ultra-compact, but still plenty small - and still fit full-sized GPUs.

All of these require SFX PSUs, so it limits your selection quite significantly, but there are still some good units out there. There have also been launched quite a few >500W SFX PSUs recently, so power output isn't a worry as long as you have the cash - especially with the current crop of very efficient GPUs (a GTX 1080 system with a ~95W CPU uses far less than 400W while gaming).

As for drives, you say (in various threads) that you have an "SSD system" and a "1TB Samsung" drive. Does this mean you have an 1TB Samsung SSD as your system drive? If so: keep it. It's either an 850 PRO or EVO, and both are great drives - both are among the fastest SATA SSDs out there. If you want to go overkill, get an m.2 NVMe SSD (Samsung 960 Evo, MyDigitalSSD BPX seem to be recommended) for the OS and games along with your platform upgrade - but the performance benefit will be negligible for gaming. You'd probably see more benefit for replacing your spinner drive with another SATA SSD of sufficient capacity.

As the replies above say, look into the Zotac and Gigabyte 1070 mini cards. If they fit into your current chassis, you could get out of this pretty cheaply and easily.

 

[you2]

A nice case that is readily available (b&h) pc-q33. It has room for a tall cooler; full size atx psu, min 1070 and is incredibly easy for a build since it opens up all the way (i used to suggest the elite 130; but after doing a few builds with both cases; I can say the elite 130 sucks - esp when it comes to changing things after the system is built. It has two advantages - it takes full size gpu and dvd (though dvd drives seem to be on the way out).
-
dan's case looks interesting but it doesnt' seem price competitive in the USA. Has anyone used this case ?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Thanks for the info guys!

Just an FYI on the old system.

New Vid Card:5/6/2015

• 1 x MSI GeForce GTX 960 DirectX 12 GTX 960 GAMING 2G 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ...

New drive purchased 7/17/2014:

• 1 x SAMSUNG 840 EVO 2.5" 1TB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-7TE1T0BW

Main components purchased 8/27/2011:

• • 
    
  • • 1 x SILVERSTONE Sugo Series SG06BB-450 ALL Black Aluminum / SECC Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case with SFX 450W 80+ ...
  • • 1 x ASUS P8H61-I (REV 3.0) LGA 1155 Intel H61 HDMI USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard
  • • 1 x EVGA SuperClocked 01G-P3-1461-KR GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI ...
  • • 1 x Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge Quad-Core 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W BX80623I52500K Desktop ...
  • • 1 x G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model ...
  • • 1 x Hitachi GST Deskstar 5K3000 HDS5C3020ALA632 (0F12117) 2TB 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare ...
  • • 1 x SAMSUNG 8X Slim Internal DVD Burner, OEM Package Without Software Black SATA Model SN-208BB - OEM

 

[Valantar]

dan's case looks interesting but it doesnt' seem price competitive in the USA. Has anyone used this case ?

It's not meant to be price competitive, it's a specialist case for those wanting the smallest case possible that can still fit an ITX board and a full-size GPU. As a comparison, the Lian-Li PC-Q33 is ~18L in volume, more than 2x the Dan A4, while being far more restrictive in terms of GPU space. The Q33 is nice, but you can't really compare the two.

OP: Do you ever use your optical drive these days? If so, I'd keep that case, as most SFF cases these days don't have room for one. Even if you don't, the case is small even by today's standards. I'd probably upgrade the cooling fan - put something with decent static pressure in there to push air through the restrictive chassis. As for the PSU, I'd upgrade it just to be safe - a 5-year-old mid-quality SFX PSU that's seen plenty of use in a rather cramped system has probably seen enough degradation to struggle feeding a GTX 1070 or similar. Corsair and Silverstone both make good SFX PSUs, and Lian-Li is entering that market too. What CPU cooler do you use? The included Intel stock cooler? If you decide to get an AMD Ryzen upgrade, note that the Wraith Spire coolers included with the 1700, 1600 and 1500X (the 1700X, 1800X and 1600X don't include coolers, and the 1400 has a smaller model) are pretty good (far better than Intel stock coolers), and they should fit fine in your case (84mm clearance vs. ~70mm cooler height if my Google-fu is on point). Still, you could probably squeeze a year or two of use out of your current system by getting a better cooler and overclocking it (4.3-4.5GHz should be doable even with limited cooling).

Oh, wait, scratch that. Your motherboard doesn't support overclocking. I guess that's settled then.

But I have to ask again: is this PC mainly for gaming, or is it used for anything else that's taxing (video editing, rendering, so on)? If it's only for gaming, Intel CPUs are still the best, although they might be less future-proof given fewer cores and threads. Also, they're quite a bit pricier. Ryzen gives you a lot of bang for your buck, they're all overclockable, and more cores and threads seems to be the way of the future. But as of today, even the 1800X is noticeably slower than a 7700K for gaming. Personally, I'm going AMD - I'll be getting a 1600X as soon as it (and a suitable ITX motherboard) is available. I'd rather get a good deal and "good enough" performance along with the possibility of a bit of future-proofing, rather than the BEST today that might not last as long.

 

[Ninjahedge]

I am using the stock cooler that came with the case (I believe heat pipes mounted to the rear fan).

It is very cramped in there!

As for use, I use it for mostly gaming, but also for photo editing. Video editing would be nice, but I do not have much for that. It is also using WIndows 7, so that is limited.

I have 3 monitors at home and it would be nice to span them on some games/apps (it is handy with Lightroom).

I saw the Lian Li case and I was worried about the depth. I also am worried about the lack of any front panel access for a drive. Although I do not use it often, it comes in handy when dealing with antiquated agencies that need things like disks to communicate (submittals and whatnot).

The case I have has kept cool, mainly because it looks like mosquito netting and the vid card vents right out the side panel, but I can see what you are talking about with a 5yo PS.

Thanks again!

 

[Valantar]

If you have a rear fan, your case isn't the one linked above (it doesn't have a rear fan mount, just a front intake and a vent between the PSU and the motherboard in the back). Care to double check?

 

[Ninjahedge]

You are correct.

I was thinking of the Shuttle case I got before that:

https://www.google.com/search?q=SG3...nJDTAhXHVyYKHXqHDG4Q_AUICigD&biw=1336&bih=666

The one I have has the front fan and a CPU fan I remounted using Arctic Silver...

 

[Valantar]

Ah, I see. That sounds familiar. Anyhow, that doesn't matter much given that your motherboard doesn't support overclocking to begin with. As such, a platform upgrade sounds like a good idea. I'd keep your case (unless you see a very good reason to replace it), but replace the PSU and get a new intake fan.

As I see it, you have two alternatives, both good, but each with strengths and weaknesses. Either

• Go for a Ryzen 5-based build (I'd choose the 1600X as it has noticeably higher clocks than the 1600), save around $100 compared to Intel, lose ~10% of gaming performance today, but gain 2 cores, 4 threads, and possibly do better in games as games grow more multi-threaded in the coming years. This might be more future-proof. And it's cheaper. The only issue is that there still isn't a single ITX AM4 motherboard out, so you'll have to wait. If you get the 1600X, you need a CPU cooler that fits your case, while the 1600 comes with a good one included.
• Or go for an i7-7700K*-based build. This will give you the very best of single-threaded performance today, and (as said above) roughly 10% better performance in games today, but the cost of entry is higher, and fewer cores and threads might shorten the lifespan of the PC somewhat. The 7700K also needs a third-party CPU cooler.

As for the rest of the hardware, get a suitable motherboard (whatever fits your needs/wants, really), a 16GB DDR4 kit of some kind (G.Skill TridentZ 3200 C14 or C16 seems like a forum favourite), a good 120mm intake fan (I'd go for a high static pressure model rather than a high airflow model in a chassis as small as this. I tend to splurge on Noctua fans, but there are plenty of good ones out there. Still, with only a single fan needed $20-25 isn't outrageous. I'd look at the NF-F12 PWM 1500rpm or NF-F12 PWM Industrial-PPC 2000rpm. The latter is better in every metric, but also more noisy at max speed. Then again, you probably won't need to run it at max speed. There's a 3000rpm screamer edition if you want to go crazy, but that's really not necessary), a good 80+ Gold or higher rated (efficiency is important in small cases - less heat output from the PSU means a cooler system, better stability and better longevity, and cuts down PSU noise) ~450W PSU (unless you plan to cram a GTX 1080 or 1080Ti in there, you don't need more), and possibly another SSD. That should do it for you. As for a CPU cooler, either the stock Wraith Spire if you go Ryzen 5 1600, otherwise look up some low-profile cooler roundup reviews and find one you like that fits your case's height limit. Again, Noctua seems to be the go-to brand if you have the money, but there are good options all around.

As for GPU choice, if you buy today, the mini 1060 and 1070 cards mentioned above should be great. If you end up waiting for a Ryzen ITX build, keep your eyes open for AMD Vega cards arriving in the coming months. We don't know much about them yet, but they ought to provide good power efficiency and performance in a small form factor (HBM memory makes the boards smaller than Nvidia's GDDR5(X)).


*Yes, I'd choose the "overclocking enabled" K SKU even for a SFF non-overclocking build, as it has the highest base and boost clocks out there - the difference between 3.6-4.2GHz and 4.2-4.5 should be clearly noticeable. Even if the 7700 (non-K) uses slightly less power than a stock K, the difference should be negligible even in a cramped case like this.