Looking to make a career in networking. Have some Q's though

[DarkWarrior2]

In my experience, all companies care about now is a four year degree. I have nearly ten years of IT experience, have a few certs, and never made more than $32k/year(in NYC.) Personally, I refuse to go to school for four years to "learn" what I already know. I'd rather spend that time learning new things. Make sure an IT career is what you really want.

Good luck!

 

[cmetz]

I'm sure there have to be some good recruiters out there, but every one I've ever been contacted by has been a giant waste of my time. Also, every one I've been contacted by has behaved in ways I would not consider completely professional.

 

[Emulex]

32K? insane. i'd pay more than that and i don't care about degrees to limitless (6 figure) growth. PHP+some certs+HARD WORKER+mad-google-fu = impossible to find down here in ATL. I don't care if you GTA'd a car or had a past rough start in life - is there an employment thread here?

Jack of all trades have alot of value to me especially if they are responsible and hard working. (hard working = bust azz 24x7 until the job is done, lunch?dinner?= lame).

THIS. if you are out there contact me. I want you!

 

[Ghiedo27]

Jack of all trades have a lot of value to me

What kind of skill set are we talking about to be a jack of all trades? Software side stuff like MCSE? I'm certainly willing to expand the material I'm looking at.

 

[Emulex]

I think its the mentality. can you approach any problem and solve using any means possible? most AT'ers have this skill. some don't. Getting certified isn't that hard if you expose yourself to product and have a passion to learn.

I think that is the core: google-fu, passion to learn, mental capacity to do things right or find the answer on how to do it right, some desire to code would be nice esp. php which is about the easiest language on the planet to use.

 

[stash]

How the hell do you survive on 32k in NYC?

 

[Ghiedo27]

I think that is the core: google-fu, passion to learn, mental capacity to do things right or find the answer on how to do it right, some desire to code would be nice esp. php which is about the easiest language on the planet to use.

Thanks, that's really encouraging. Basically I'm going to be starting out with little more than a cert or two and enthusiasm to learn more. It's nice to know that there are employers that value that.

Are there any buzzwords I should know about representing myself properly? I would love to find a job where I could start at a lower level (with at minimum a solid understanding of CCNA material) and learn the rest as need be. Any help getting hooked into the right track is much appreciated. Something that starts out relatively low (I don't know- 40k?) with incentives as I catch up to speed seems like a reasonable expectation to me.

As a side note, I was in the Air Force (as Comm/Nav) working on troubleshooting radio systems (think 30 radios configured to work with 20+ seats in different ways along with GPS and other radio navigation systems) and I'm not sure how to sell the troubleshooting experience. It clearly doesn't translate over far, but it was team oriented problem solving and documentation with broad responsibilities.

 

[ScottMac]

Being able to express and perform solid diagnostic skills is a big part of the game.
A good understanding of process and troubleshooting methodology is a Very Good Thing, and worthy of emphasis on your paper and oral presentation.

 

[lowrider69]

Start at 40k with a cert or two? I guess it depends on the certs, with a CCNA, maybe. Really depends on your location as well, some states really do suck for IT work. Problem is the economy still sucks, so many companies are paying next to nothing for a salary. I see many companies, staffing agencies, etc..looking for people with a degree plus a CCNA, MCSE, four years of experience plus knowledge of everything under the sun for 30k-40k. If you can fly the space shuttle that's a plus. Many places are trying to take advantage of a bad situation. Years ago a person with a MCSE alone and experience who really knew what they were doing would easily start over 40k without a problem. Now companies are nickel and diming because they want one guy who can do 25 different jobs so they can save money. Fine, if you want a guy who's a network admin, helpdesk person, a web designer, a programmer, etc...pay for it. But they give it a shot because people are out of work. I actually recall reading an ad for a IT specialist where they wanted a guy who would go on the roof and repair their AC units when needed. I shit you not.

 

[Emulex]

Ghiedo27 - your first job will be in a NOC. If you have more ambition i'd look at VOIP/TELCO company that does security/site survey/lan design. This is where CCDE comes into play. I've met alot of people that don't have a clue about radio - that is your big one-up - i'd focus on it - more road work until you are proven but eventually we're going to be all wireless and someone has to have the foresight to develop systems that work well without stepping on each other. You probably realize the laws of physics trump the laws of computing/programming - a lot of people can't wrap their heads around that.

 

[cmetz]

Ghiedo27, assuming of course that you were honorably discharged, your military background as a tech is a great thing to emphasize. You don't have to go very far to find a vet, and most people in this country are very supportive of our troops (regardless of opinions about how they're being used). The military teaches discipline, chain-of-command, reproducibility, and rigor - all things you want to see in a junior tech. Combined with an attitude of "I don't know this exact thing, but I know what I don't know and I'm a good learner" you can take that places.

 

[cmetz]

Emulex, I generally totally agree with your statements about what you're looking for, but I gotta take exception with this one:

>lunch?dinner?= lame

Hours worked at a stretch do not necessarily correlate with good results. I want the latter. How people get there, I don't really care. In my experience, I've seen a lot of mid-level folks try to do the macho thing in the middle of a crisis and go all night with no breaks. They reach a point where they're making negative progress. You need to manage the wetware for optimal results. Even better are folks who can self-manage that.

 

[Emulex]

cmetz: I think you misunderstand. when it is crunch time. say a server is down. or security breach or anything - you must put aside lunch/life/whatever. Say java - the most impossible to patch up object on the planet without installing some carpware - ok - the best time to pop everyones machine (browser restart)? lunch?

99% of the folks don't get that lunch if flex-time - you do what you gotta do and don't hang out with the gang. Some days you take that 1hr some days you don't. I agree its unhealthy but in serious crunch time you do what you gotta do if thats a 48hr burn and sleep on the cold floor (noc job) then you do it. taking shifts until the job is done. I think Mr Ghiedo understands that. I'm guessing soldiers in middle east don't work a 9-5 you rock out until you are no longer useful then tap-out. I agree you need to know when to tap-out but seriously.

All jobs require continuing education (certs,etc they expire). This means you are going to spend hours at home (Esp a noob) catching up on tech you don't know and tech that is new. You need a passion to do this (AT folks obviously have one passion inherently).

lastly i'll say something off the record: Sometimes you are better off leaving military off that resume' - i will not say more

 

[alkemyst]

If you are in a job where you constantly get no lunch and are working 10+ hour days you are someone's bitch.

 

[cmetz]

I think Emulex, alkemyst, and I are actually all in agreement here. When you have to do something, you do what you have to do, but you should ensure that you're actually making progress. If crazy hours is the norm, though, something's very wrong. I've seen plenty of places that do the macho thing, I work more hours than you do - yeah, great, see how that works out for you in the long run.

 

[alkemyst]

I think Emulex, alkemyst, and I are actually all in agreement here. When you have to do something, you do what you have to do, but you should ensure that you're actually making progress. If crazy hours is the norm, though, something's very wrong. I've seen plenty of places that do the macho thing, I work more hours than you do - yeah, great, see how that works out for you in the long run.

Those places just hired a bunch of hens competing.

Those that compete on time worked simply don't have brains to use. If they do, then they lack backbones.

 

[cmetz]

They're billing - and paid - by the hour. Bad incentives (hourly) + bad culture (macho) = bad results.

 

[alkemyst]

If someone is getting paid for each hour they work that is a great benefit.

If the salary sux then that is the reason.

 

[lowrider69]

I agree with what the above two posters said. I worked in a environment where I would routinely skip lunch/dinner/breaks and work extra hours. I burned myself out within two years and quit......i'm happy I left and I never looked back.

 

[cmetz]

alkemyst, that's why I said bad culture as well. You need a culture to moderate the downsides of your short-term financial incentives. Also, you need to pay people a decent living so they don't have to work 60 hours just to get by in life.

 

[Emulex]

i guess if you have no vested interest you might take an hourly job? but most people want folks who are in it for the long haul and salary paid. you work extra? sure you can take time off. skip lunch? that's what delivery is for. it's overrated imo. i'd rather go home earlier than spend an hour eating.

 

[alkemyst]

alkemyst, that's why I said bad culture as well. You need a culture to moderate the downsides of your short-term financial incentives. Also, you need to pay people a decent living so they don't have to work 60 hours just to get by in life.

Yeah I agree. However, people tend to become a martyr in IT/IS (probably all jobs, but in the IT field I have found if you are good at what you do there are always other jobs).

I make a salary. My work week is hard to pin down in reality, however; I do feel like I am hardly working now rather than always working like my last job.

I worked a 40 hour week, but I was always "on call"...it was BS. Benefits were it was 3 miles from my house.

My new job sometimes I may work 60 hours, but in return I can take off the additional time another week. I can work from home a lot when there is just documentation to do (like I will be starting shortly)...it's great. Maybe I take a break and cut my grass or go out to eat or something. I come back and put a couple hours back in and make a full day of it.

I bust my ass some days, but many I am just coasting. I am paid well, have good benefits and a great corporate culture.

There are a lot of flunkies out there though and everyone seems to think they are a superstar when most aren't.

However, I would never ever ever stay on at a company that employs idiots. If they are doing that, that means they are paying someone most of what I make for doing nothing.

In any company 20% really do most of the work...but if your 80% are sitting on YouTube or playing games all day, you are a martyr.

 

[kschaffner]

So I have come to find out that I can get not only the CCNA but Sec+, MCITP Client, MCITP server, and if I want a+ and net+ along with an associates degree in under a year.

 

[alkemyst]

So I have come to find out that I can get not only the CCNA but Sec+, MCITP Client, MCITP server, and if I want a+ and net+ along with an associates degree in under a year.

That's not so bad, but what is your goal?

You should be able to do CCNA and CCNP in a year as well.

 

[Ghiedo27]

Should I be concerned about A+ and Net+ certs once I get the CCNA? I'm definitely looking through the study material either way, but I'm not sure if I want to go through the extra expense if it's just viewed as an also-cert.

Hiring aside, any tips on things you wished your new guys would know? I want to hit the ground running, so to speak. I figure that while work experience will limit my starting point making a good impression in the first month may make a huge difference in my opportunities for the next couple years.

Little things like what progression in a NOC requires would be very much appreciated. I have a lot of time on my hands right now, so I'm not too worried about study overload. Better to take an extra month to really get everything down than be stuck under someone on the slow track because they figure I'll need 6 months to get seasoned enough to even bother talking to again.