Looking to make a career in networking. Have some Q's though

[alkemyst]

I'd not worry about A+ or other CompTia stuff, but I wouldn't stop at CCNA. Get CCNP at least and some CCNA level specialties.

 

[JackMDS]

kschaffner you can do it for now.

Howeveryou have to realize that the Business world has it own Shticks.

I.e., it does not matter whether a BA/Bsc is really necessary for your actual Job.

At a certain point in your carrier you will not be promoted because you do not have a College degree.

 

[Ghiedo27]

I'd not worry about A+ or other CompTia stuff, but I wouldn't stop at CCNA. Get CCNP at least and some CCNA level specialties.

I'm definitely not stopping at the CCNA. It just seems as though any jobs past that are going to flat out require a college degree or experience and references. The long term plan definitely includes a degree and CCIE.

What I'm trying to establish for the short term is the skill set I need to show up and get past the lower rungs quickly enough to be able to pay off debts and invest in more education. Basically I want to be the guy saying "Well, I can do that" when the opportunity comes up.

 

[alkemyst]

Experience and references are the key things. I have met a lot of highly paid network engineers that have little or no college. Some have become managers and then pursued things like MBA's.

The key thing in this field is to know your stuff. You also have to be in the right place for the jobs. This is a job that follows population and industry. I know in Atlanta right now they have a lot of traffic.

 

[kschaffner]

But I will have a college degree....

kschaffner you can do it for now.

Howeveryou have to realize that the Business world has it own Shticks.

I.e., it does not matter whether a BA/Bsc is really necessary for your actual Job.

At a certain point in your carrier you will not be promoted because you do not have a College degree.

 

[m1ldslide1]

<--- Career networker.

I agree that getting a 4-year degree is a REALLY good idea. All but a few companies will limit your growth or hiring opportunities without it.

CCNA is important for getting a serious first job where you can get real networking experience. CCNP is going to take a while - those exams are really hard (and getting harder) and require dedication and experience to pass. Sure people have stories of some jackhole who bought copies of the tests and managed to memorize the answers and pass, but that's not what I'm talking about.

If you have a BS and a CCNP, you should be able to compete for good networking jobs in most organizations. I do not know a lot of engineers outside of Cisco partners who have CCNP or above level certifications. They definitely exist, and I was one of them, but it isn't as common as some would have you think. You will be very competitive with experience + BS + CCNP.

CCIE is more of a life-goal. I say that half-jokingly, because studying for it will take over your life. The written is super hard (and getting harder), and if you are employed with any family responsibilities you could spend a year preparing for it. Again, there are people who either buy the exam or who are much better test-takers than I, but if you're a normal smart person then you'll need a lot of preparation. The lab portion of the exam is also getting harder with every revision. Expect to spend well over a year studying for it, and probably $10k in study materials. There is an insane amount of material you're responsible for, and you get an insanely short amount of time to configure it all. I'm currently working on my second attempt at the lab exam.

So anyway, this is a great field to get into, and like someone else said I don't know anyone who is unhappy with their work. I have had fantastic opportunities personally. Make sure to think of it as a career and knock off your objectives along the way, and you'll get where you want to go. Eventually.

 

[xSauronx]

kschaffner you can do it for now.

Howeveryou have to realize that the Business world has it own Shticks.

I.e., it does not matter whether a BA/Bsc is really necessary for your actual Job.

At a certain point in your carrier you will not be promoted because you do not have a College degree.

this is why i went ahead and transferred into a BS program after finished my aas...i knew i would hit a ceiling pretty before too long and get the shaft on career options

 

[alkemyst]

<--- Career networker.

The written is super hard (and getting harder), and if you are employed with any family responsibilities you could spend a year preparing for it.

CCIE written is not that hard...if you need a year to pass just the written you are in the wrong field.

Also passing the written doesn't make anyone a CCIE yet resumes and brags are filled with "CCIE Written".

CCNP is really something any true network guy can handle. Without experience it's difficult at best...

 

[IndyColtsFan]

<--- Career networker.

I agree that getting a 4-year degree is a REALLY good idea. All but a few companies will limit your growth or hiring opportunities without it.

This. Obviously a 4-year degree will not necessarily make you a better network engineer, but take it from someone who has worked at several Fortune 500 companies and is currently at a very well-known company -- not only will you be limited in your upward mobility without a 4-year degree, but many companies won't even look at your resume if you don't have one.

Is it right or fair? No, but you're not going to change the system so if you want the best possible chances, go for a 4-year degree especially if you're young and have no real responsibilities. If money is an issue, knock out a couple of certs and see if you can land a job with tuition reimbursement and then get your degree.

 

[Emulex]

I need CCDA/CCDE's to design and the NA/NP's to do the manual labor.

for real

 

[ScottMac]

I need CCDA/CCDE's to design and the NA/NP's to do the manual labor.

for real

But you should have both (or more) to do either.

Designing without practical knowledge generally leads to major network suckage, and practical troubleshooting and maintenance without an understanding of the design intent and end-to-end functional goals can lead to "Bad Things" happening (because you "improve" something that was implemented to cover some obscure. but vital aspect of the implementation).

 

[Emulex]

the tracks used to be separate - i think they were always meant to be ccna -> ccda -> ccnp -> ccdp -> specializations + years -> ccie

 

[JackMDS]

For long term (as oppose to hire someone for few months), business' look for people that can think, and advance as the field does.

Problem is that High School level in the USA got to a point that it is No indication that graduate can think, or even read and writer.

Thus, 4 years College degree became the new High School degree.

This has nothing to do with Wiring and Network, It is the "sad state" of the Union.

 

[Emulex]

^^^ Why private school is necessary.

 

[m1ldslide1]

CCIE written is not that hard...if you need a year to pass just the written you are in the wrong field.

So I assume that you've passed it? Or at least attempted it?

 

[alkemyst]

So I assume that you've passed it? Or at least attempted it?

I work for one of the top cisco partners globally, it is well-known the CCIE written is not difficult (assuming one has CCNP level knowledge)

Many claim to be CCIE written, but it means nothing.

All the test is for is to ensure you are not totally wasting a lab spot.

 

[m1ldslide1]

I work for one of the top cisco partners globally, it is well-known the CCIE written is not difficult (assuming one has CCNP level knowledge)

Many claim to be CCIE written, but it means nothing.

All the test is for is to ensure you are not totally wasting a lab spot.

I disagree with your first statement, but agree with the second two. I have never heard that it is well-known that the IE written is easy, but you obviously have lots of highly-certified and very smart people you're talking to. Please keep that in mind that not everyone is going to have the same success as these guys have had (possibly even including yourself). It might be a good idea to avoid "common knowledge" statements when you don't have first-hand experience. Instead we can better help people starting out in this field by sharing the experiences that we *have* had. Just my $.02.

 

[alkemyst]

I disagree with your first statement, but agree with the second two. I have never heard that it is well-known that the IE written is easy, but you obviously have lots of highly-certified and very smart people you're talking to. Please keep that in mind that not everyone is going to have the same success as these guys have had (possibly even including yourself). It might be a good idea to avoid "common knowledge" statements when you don't have first-hand experience. Instead we can better help people starting out in this field by sharing the experiences that we *have* had. Just my $.02.

People say the CCNA is tough too. I just think there are a lot of people out there with no aptitude. I passed it with no networking experience in under 6 months.

I am planning on CCNP + CCNA-Wireless by September. I started end of March.

 

[dailow]

I know when I first started in the network world, the CCIE truly did seem like the "Holy Grail" of the networking world. After getting some other certifications and experience though, it's no longer the unobtainable goal that it once was. I'm now CCNP and CCIP certified with 5+ years of experience at the carrier level, and nothing on the CCIE syllabus looks like it comes out of left field - it's just a matter of being able to bring all of the technologies together.

 

[jlazzaro]

I know when I first started in the network world, the CCIE truly did seem like the "Holy Grail" of the networking world. After getting some other certifications and experience though, it's no longer the unobtainable goal that it once was. I'm now CCNP and CCIP certified with 5+ years of experience at the carrier level, and nothing on the CCIE syllabus looks like it comes out of left field - it's just a matter of being able to bring all of the technologies together.

the difficulties with the CCIE lab have nothing to do with the technologies. it has everything to do with how Cisco structures the scenarios and requirements, and knowing when/how to implement specific solutions to meet their guidelines. you could have a fully functional lab that does everything specified in the lab book and still fail miserably.

 

[spidey07]

I know when I first started in the network world, the CCIE truly did seem like the "Holy Grail" of the networking world. After getting some other certifications and experience though, it's no longer the unobtainable goal that it once was. I'm now CCNP and CCIP certified with 5+ years of experience at the carrier level, and nothing on the CCIE syllabus looks like it comes out of left field - it's just a matter of being able to bring all of the technologies together.

It's HOW the lab scenarios are done. The technology and concepts aren't that difficult, but you had better know exactly how it works. The biggest gotcha is "you must make X happen, but you cannot use this command".

Things like - we're giving you 1000 networks, ensure that only these 100 are redistributed into your IGP. You cannot use route-maps or prefix lists.

What makes the lab hard is they ask you to do such wacked out stuff that you'd never do in the real world, but shows you know it backwards, forwards, sideways and jump out the window to come in the front door (it's specified you can't exit the front door to come in, etc).

 

[theevilsharpie]

I know when I first started in the network world, the CCIE truly did seem like the "Holy Grail" of the networking world. After getting some other certifications and experience though, it's no longer the unobtainable goal that it once was. I'm now CCNP and CCIP certified with 5+ years of experience at the carrier level, and nothing on the CCIE syllabus looks like it comes out of left field - it's just a matter of being able to bring all of the technologies together.

Hey, we caught a lurker :awe:

 

[m1ldslide1]

It's HOW the lab scenarios are done. The technology and concepts aren't that difficult, but you had better know exactly how it works. The biggest gotcha is "you must make X happen, but you cannot use this command".

Things like - we're giving you 1000 networks, ensure that only these 100 are redistributed into your IGP. You cannot use route-maps or prefix lists.

What makes the lab hard is they ask you to do such wacked out stuff that you'd never do in the real world, but shows you know it backwards, forwards, sideways and jump out the window to come in the front door (it's specified you can't exit the front door to come in, etc).

Exactly - the lab is far from a "best practices" exam, or even a "build a functional network" exam. Even in the troubleshooting section, which gives people a lot of problems, you aren't necessarily supposed to just solve the problem, but solve it in a very specific way using only a certain # of commands. The other issue is time - they cram all of this material into two parts: a two-hour troubleshooting section, and then a 5 hour configuration section. Everyone I talk to who has failed this exam (including myself) feels that they could get a 100% if they had two or three days to build everything out. Instead you have only minutes to work on a large topology that is totally foreign to you.

I wonder if the voice / security / storage labs are like this? I know that they're hard, but I haven't heard whether or not they kill you with exotic config scenarios and harsh time limits.

 

[classy]

I have a MCSE 2003 and CCENT . I live in the Philly area and some of the things I am reading here are not what I have found. If you are going to do networking, unless you want to do management, it would be a waste of time and money going to college. Sorry college is quickly becoming a waste of 4 years for a lot of careers. Networking is definately one.

Cisco and more cisco. That will prepare you not only for networks using Cisco equipment but networking in general. As for employment, with your experience with a CCNA you should have no problem finding a job. If your smart a CCNA with wireless or VOIP I guarantee someone will take a flyer on you easily.

I am a network admin, mainly server related. Every area is different but here much of what is posted is not the market in this area. And the job market is open all over the place for Network and Lan engineers. You can work in all types of places and facilities. I would get your CCNA and then adjust and go from there. By the way there is nothing better to train and learn with than Cisco Packet Tracer. I have couple of routers and 2950 switch. But for about $500 you easily be able to build a good lab, hone your skills, beef up your knowledge, and earn your certs.

I think you are making a great choice by the way. Good luck....

 

[ScottMac]

I have a MCSE 2003 and CCENT . I live in the Philly area and some of the things I am reading here are not what I have found. If you are going to do networking, unless you want to do management, it would be a waste of time and money going to college. Sorry college is quickly becoming a waste of 4 years for a lot of careers. Networking is definately one.

Cisco and more cisco. That will prepare you not only for networks using Cisco equipment but networking in general. As for employment, with your experience with a CCNA you should have no problem finding a job. If your smart a CCNA with wireless or VOIP I guarantee someone will take a flyer on you easily.

I am a network admin, mainly server related. Every area is different but here much of what is posted is not the market in this area. And the job market is open all over the place for Network and Lan engineers. You can work in all types of places and facilities. I would get your CCNA and then adjust and go from there. By the way there is nothing better to train and learn with than Cisco Packet Tracer. I have couple of routers and 2950 switch. But for about $500 you easily be able to build a good lab, hone your skills, beef up your knowledge, and earn your certs.

I think you are making a great choice by the way. Good luck....

My main argument against your post would be "progress." Twenty-something years ago, it took a factory-trained and experienced person to get

a)computers config'd and loaded,
b) generate a server (with early Novell, you had to build the OS around the hardware and NIC),
c) pull and properly terminate the cable
d) configure the "network operating system" piece in each host
e) configure the applications for proper sharing

Nowadays, your average 6th grader can set up a home network with more sophisticated functionality in a third of the time.

Certainly security apps have advanced, and there are some very technical and complex verticals ... but in each case, progress will (eventually) make it so simple any idiot will be able to do it.

Network certs mean absolutely zip, nada, nothing outside of the networking community. At least with a degree, ANY degree, it will be recognized regardless of whatever discipline you pursue. And to reiterate, there are a lot of companies that won't even let you in teh door without a degree, usually a four year degree (even Lib Arts, Underwater Basket Weaving, whatever). Motorola (for example only) absolutely requires a degree (for anything that doesn't involve a broom or garbage cart).

I also agree with Jack; a four year degree is the new High School Diploma .... gotta have it.