Okay, nevermind. Should've done a little search first. In case anyone else was wondering, it's the one that says "For U.S.A. only". At least I think
Originally posted by: Morpheux
I made copies and sent both. Last thing I want is for them to tell me they didn't get all they needed to provide me with my rebate.
Glad others are enjoying this camera as much as I am. It's still being picky with my NiMH batteries, but seems to be working great with "Digital" AA batteries.
I also find it a little annoying you have to move the battery cover to get to the SD card, but it is keeping the card safer then no cover. As long as you close it and don't end up breaking it off it's just a little PITA.
I have some Panasonic AA's that are made "for digital" applications like digital cameras, radios, etc.....Originally posted by: Muse:
What are "digital" AA batteries?
That V1000 smart fast charger looks interesting. At the The Great Battery Shootout! it says that fast charging NiMH AA's (maybe others) should generally (maybe always?) be followed up by overnight trickle charging to get maximum capacity. Do you have a trickle charger too?Originally posted by: mindless1
So far mine is working fine with NiMH Powerizer 2000mAh. I found a deal on 'em from this thread,, though I got the V1000 Charger w/4 AA & 4 AAA bundle instead.
It's supposed to trickle charge too... I confirmed that it does a lower-rate charge after the rapid-charge cycle is complete, when the light turns green, but I don't think it's truely a "trickle", which for NiMH, IIRC, is supposed to be around C/50... it's more like a topping-off charge, will finish off the charge but you wouldn't want to leave the cells in indefinitely. I don't recall the exact mA, and haven't any cells that need charged at the moment. It does use a lower rate for AAA, selected by flipping down the "spacer" to make AAA fit snug, switches a contact internally.That V1000 smart fast charger looks interesting. At the The Great Battery Shootout! it says that fast charging NiMH AA's (maybe others) should generally (maybe always?) be followed up by overnight trickle charging to get maximum capacity. Do you have a trickle charger too?
This is almost as good as the OneCall deal a couple weeks ago. It doesn't have the remote control and the extended warranty. Other than that I suppose it's the same.
Originally posted by: Muse
This is almost as good as the OneCall deal a couple weeks ago. It doesn't have the remote control and the extended warranty. Other than that I suppose it's the same.
I received my V3 from 6ave.com today. It's the whole 9 yards including the remote and 3 year extended warranty. $236.06 shipped. I'm sending in my application for the $50 rebate today.
Went over to my local OfficeMax today and picked up the free card reader (after $10 mail in rebate).
It's not smokin' hot but the best deal on 256 MB SD I could find was at ecost.com, the Kingston. $4.95 handling fee on top of $64 base price and state tax, if applicable, $10 Kingston mail-in rebate (good at select e-tailers, ecost's deal being the best among those). Came out under $65 when all's said and done for me. If you don't pay tax, more like $60 for you. Received mine yesterday, one week after ordering and shipped via UPS Ground, which is free.Originally posted by: Morpheux
Not yet, still looking for a deal on the 256MB.
I did take mine down to NAIAS yesterday and burned through a set a regular AA in about 35 pics. They were smokin when I took them out. The V3 (included) is still going strong and hasn't lost a bar with the other 100 pics I took. I've been very happy with this camera, I just need to take the time to really get into the advanced settings more.
I'm about to order the same bundle you did: V1000 Charger w/4 AA & 4 AAA bundleOriginally posted by: mindless1
It's supposed to trickle charge too... I confirmed that it does a lower-rate charge after the rapid-charge cycle is complete, when the light turns green, but I don't think it's truely a "trickle", which for NiMH, IIRC, is supposed to be around C/50... it's more like a topping-off charge, will finish off the charge but you wouldn't want to leave the cells in indefinitely. I don't recall the exact mA, and haven't any cells that need charged at the moment. It does use a lower rate for AAA, selected by flipping down the "spacer" to make AAA fit snug, switches a contact internally.That V1000 smart fast charger looks interesting. At the The Great Battery Shootout! it says that fast charging NiMH AA's (maybe others) should generally (maybe always?) be followed up by overnight trickle charging to get maximum capacity. Do you have a trickle charger too?
One thing about the V1000 and most mid-priced chargers, they don't have temp monitoring, so if something should happen, like power outtage, the charge would likely start up in rapid charge mode. It's a delta-v charger, senses the voltage drop, and if power loss occured it might overcharge... I have a few cheap UPS, have the charger plugged into one just in case.
I'm really not all that worried about getting 100% capacity though, would be happy to get 80-90% every time... that last 20% of the charging seems to take disproportionately longer with any charger... I like to put the cells in and take them back out in 2-3 hours while it's easy to remember, not leave them sitting there overcharging till i remember to take them out... Even a supposedly "trickle" charger is often charging at too great a rate for "storing" the batteries in it instead of removing them. So far for my use that means swapping the batteries every other time I download pics (put a 256MB SD card in the 'cam, never filled it yet).
I was thinking about modding it and adding a tiny panel meter so i could see the voltage, just haven't decided which one yet, didn't want the charger any bigger than necessary.
Now I have a new idea, thinking about a solar charger/maintainer. After the rapid charge is done I can leave them in the solar charger, indefinitely, to top them off and keep them full. I think I found the ideal solar cell for it but I refrain from posting a link because i haven't confirmed it's viability myself, those solar cells can vary a lot so it's unknown how well it would do indoors.
"C" is capacity, which for the cells I received is 2000mAh, BUT, the only testing I've seen of these "Powerizer" cells suggests that (at least in the past) they were aggressively rated, ie- may not really be worth 2000mAh or to put it another way, they may not have same true capacity, as high a capacity at same discharge rate as seen with high end cells (Sanyo, Powerex, etc) of same 2000mAh rating... but they cost a LOT less. If they do at least as good as 1600mAh Sanyos, they're still a deal, I haven't seen any regular deals on 1600mAh Sanyos for around a buck a piece, and most other places on the 'net that have that same charger sell it for $19-25 with NO batteries included. I'm not claiming it's the best charger, but workable, a good value.Originally posted by: Muse
I'm about to order the same bundle you did: V1000 Charger w/4 AA & 4 AAA bundle
You said trickle for NiMH is around C/50. What does that mean? I have a few chargers, one being really old for AA, C, D NiCads, and it says .075 amp and I measured a flow of 45 mamp. I modded it to work with AAAs, and figure it would probably work as a trickle charger for NiMH AAAs. I'm researching trickle charging, etc. NiMH batteries. Bought the V1000/4AA/4AAA package. Unfortunately, their free shipping to CA expired Halloween. They're located around 5 miles from me but they don't accommodate pickup.
It may be more difficult to charge individual cells (or pairs, not a pack like for notebooks) since there's nowhere on individual cells for a thermal cutoff or feedback sensor. I had considered getting a charger with thermal cutoff but then was in doubt about how well it would work, not shutting off too soon or late if operated under the assumption that it reliably use the thermal cutoff. When batteries are $1 each it makes less sense to pour the $$ into a charger than more cells, at least IMO.Originally posted by: Muse
mindless1, I think c/3 will be fast enough for me. Well, to me a 6 hour charger is the fastest I've ever used. I still have my first charger (the 45 mah one), and it takes 32 hours to charge a nicad C cell!!! The concept of charging a battery in one hour to me is scarry.
I don't know anything about the Merkury charger but you might not even need another charger.I found a neat deal in Hot Deals a few weeks ago, being Circuit City Free (after $10 MIR) digicam case/4 AA NiMH + 6 hour charger from Merkury, and I scooted over their and snagged one. The AAs are 1800 mah and they appear to work OK in the V3, so I may be OK with the total of 8 AA NiMHs I will have when my Batteryspace package comes.
I'd expect you can fill a 256 SD card with only 1 or 2 pairs of batteries, depending on how long between shots, runtime of LCD and use of zoom... especially if you use external card reader to download.I haven't tested it but I figure those 8 batteries may be enough to fill the 256 MB card with super fine large shots, or close to it. I can keep the CR-V3 as backup, if necessary, and keep my eyes open for good deals on a few NiMH's.
I've not tried to recharge recently, fully charged cells, think that might be a problem on the V1000. When I recharged partially drained cells they were hotter than I liked but not alarmingly hot for a semi-rapid charger. It seems that getting the last dozen % charge into a cell at higher charge rate does create more heat than the earlier portion of charging, or perhaps it's just that the heat builds up over time and is more noticable towards the end.My question is how good this V1000 charger is in terms of not overcharging cells. It uses a voltage cutoff, not thermal, and one article I read said it's really best to have both. One's OK, I figure, but I wonder about what it does after it switches over, how effective that is and how non-destructive it is.
That may be a good reason to get a charger than can do each cell individually, or have enough batteries to allow slow trickle-charging some of them. I too would like more feedback on cell charging, but a very good charger with things like voltage and ammeter seem prohibitively expensive, though I haven't looked too hard for one but it seems these cheap chargers make the better ones sell in too low a volume to be proportionately priced to their build cost.I'd like to have some confidence that I know what's going on. One thing I figure is that it's best to have all 2 or all 4 of the batteries you're charging be at approximately the same state of discharge. Otherwise, when the charger switches over to the low power mode, some cells will be undercharged, I figure. I did a charge of 4 yesterday, and one pair was exhausted but the other pair wasn't but didn't have enough oomph to satisfy the V3. I put the cells in a flashlight. I figure I can discharge them that way, but I read somewhere that you shouldn't discharge rechargeables COMPLETELY or there's a danger of reversing the polarity with bad consequences. I don't know how much credence to give that warning.
The powerizers almost seemed to be remarked though, like a 1600mAh cell marked up to 1800mAh. That tells us nothing of the 2000/2100mAh cells though, we need more current data on these specific cells.These Powerizer batteries look pretty OK. Don't know how they'll hold up, but ALL the batteries in the Great Battery Shootout (linked above) were overrated by the manufacturers, generally by close to 10%, + or - some.
I'm not liking either alternative much, it seems that still the mechanical stresses of (either) the USB cable or the battery door & release mechanism will be one of the weaker parts of the 'V3. I'd be happier if manufacturers stoped trying to make products as tiny as possible and made at least the parts subject to stress, more robust. I'm probably not going to break it, but then again I used to have a stack of walkmans with intermittent 'phone jacks, IR remotes with battery hatches that don't fit right or have broken tabs now, etc.I figure the USB connector doesn't supply power to the V3. I'll probably never use that since I got a card reader. The OM card reader downloaded shots at over 1 MB/sec, which is fast enough for me I figure.
Hmmmm. I hadn't expected it to need 2A. That's pretty large for a wall-wart type transformer, would be even larger if regulated, unless it's a switching regulator. At least 5V is a pretty common denomination.I looked around at my wall warts, and don't have anything speced at what the V3 specifies, 5v, 2A. I have a universal that does 4.5v (which I'm sure is fine), but it says 1A. It's not a biggie, I figure, long as I have enough battery power.
Eventually I may investigate whether someone wants to split a pack of 24 AA, I really don't need 24 of 'em. The charger parts I'm considering are certainly at the right price-point if ordering other stuff, but imply basic knowledge of electronics, or at least basics of polarity and soldering to hook up. I may try both, but haven't gotten around to ordering either because it takes me a LONG time to go through those websites and get a complete list of stuff... just so much stuff I could use but then I remember I don't have the time for so many little projects.I too looked at the 12 and 24 cell packs from batteryspace but I have a good use for those 4 AAA's, so that's just fine. Those links you provided for charging parts look interesting.
I never did format the original 32MB card, then I used my Kingston 256MB card without formatting it myself, but then thought I had read and vaguely remembered some potential for problems with (some camera?) if the camera didn't format the card itself, so I did format in the camera... notice no difference, still works fine.I'm wondering another thing. The V3 manual seems to say you should format your SD cards in the camera rather than through a card reader/PC. Is that true? At some point, it may be necessary/advisable to reformat the SD cards, right? I'm new to them.
Originally posted by: mindless1
It may be more difficult to charge individual cells (or pairs, not a pack like for notebooks) since there's nowhere on individual cells for a thermal cutoff or feedback sensor. I had considered getting a charger with thermal cutoff but then was in doubt about how well it would work, not shutting off too soon or late if operated under the assumption that it reliably use the thermal cutoff. When batteries are $1 each it makes less sense to pour the $$ into a charger than more cells, at least IMO.Originally posted by: Muse
mindless1, I think c/3 will be fast enough for me. Well, to me a 6 hour charger is the fastest I've ever used. I still have my first charger (the 45 mah one), and it takes 32 hours to charge a nicad C cell!!! The concept of charging a battery in one hour to me is scarry.
--> My concern is not just the longevity of the cells but possible memory effect. Although NiMH cells are often said not to suffer from this, I think they do better when they are completely discharged at least occasionally. I don't know about the Powerizer cells yet, but the Merkury cells I got with my after-MIR free digicam kit do work in the V3, but the V3 stops working with them after 10 or 15 shots (with fairly low LCD use), and there's still plenty of power left in the cells. Without a discharge feature, I either have to charge the cells as is or find another way to discharge them. It took several hours today to discharge them in a flashlight and I decided that's not practical. I think a conditioning charger such as the Maha MH-C204F would give longer battery life from a longevity and per-use standpoint.
I don't know anything about the Merkury charger but you might not even need another charger.I found a neat deal in Hot Deals a few weeks ago, being Circuit City Free (after $10 MIR) digicam case/4 AA NiMH + 6 hour charger from Merkury, and I scooted over their and snagged one. The AAs are 1800 mah and they appear to work OK in the V3, so I may be OK with the total of 8 AA NiMHs I will have when my Batteryspace package comes.
--> Well, it delivers 130 ma. I think I'd have to use it with a timer and again there's no conditioning (pre-drain).
I'd expect you can fill a 256 SD card with only 1 or 2 pairs of batteries, depending on how long between shots, runtime of LCD and use of zoom... especially if you use external card reader to download.I haven't tested it but I figure those 8 batteries may be enough to fill the 256 MB card with super fine large shots, or close to it. I can keep the CR-V3 as backup, if necessary, and keep my eyes open for good deals on a few NiMH's.
--> I'm not getting anything like that with the Merkury 1800 mah batteries. I went through two pairs in around 20 shots (superfine, large, little to moderate LCD usage).
I've not tried to recharge recently, fully charged cells, think that might be a problem on the V1000. When I recharged partially drained cells they were hotter than I liked but not alarmingly hot for a semi-rapid charger. It seems that getting the last dozen % charge into a cell at higher charge rate does create more heat than the earlier portion of charging, or perhaps it's just that the heat builds up over time and is more noticable towards the end.My question is how good this V1000 charger is in terms of not overcharging cells. It uses a voltage cutoff, not thermal, and one article I read said it's really best to have both. One's OK, I figure, but I wonder about what it does after it switches over, how effective that is and how non-destructive it is.
--> Mine seemed pretty warm after charging today. I charged the Powerizer's, which came partially charged. Haven't tried them yet in the V3, except to see that they did have enough power to start the camera.
That may be a good reason to get a charger that can do each cell individually, or have enough batteries to allow slow trickle-charging some of them. I too would like more feedback on cell charging, but a very good charger with things like voltage and ammeter seem prohibitively expensive, though I haven't looked too hard for one but it seems these cheap chargers make the better ones sell in too low a volume to be proportionately priced to their build cost.I'd like to have some confidence that I know what's going on. One thing I figure is that it's best to have all 2 or all 4 of the batteries you're charging be at approximately the same state of discharge. Otherwise, when the charger switches over to the low power mode, some cells will be undercharged, I figure. I did a charge of 4 yesterday, and one pair was exhausted but the other pair wasn't but didn't have enough oomph to satisfy the V3. I put the cells in a flashlight. I figure I can discharge them that way, but I read somewhere that you shouldn't discharge rechargeables COMPLETELY or there's a danger of reversing the polarity with bad consequences. I don't know how much credence to give that warning.
--> Maha makes a MH-C401FS charger that has independent action for all 4 cells, but it doesn't include conditioning (discharge). They claim that the pulse charging makes that unnecessary, but the Great Battery Shootout guy (and I kinda wonder too) says he's a little skeptical. The C204F has two independent banks, and I figure that's probably pretty OK since I always use my AA's in pairs anyway.
I'm not liking either alternative much, it seems that still the mechanical stresses of (either) the USB cable or the battery door & release mechanism will be one of the weaker parts of the 'V3. I'd be happier if manufacturers stoped trying to make products as tiny as possible and made at least the parts subject to stress, more robust. I'm probably not going to break it, but then again I used to have a stack of walkmans with intermittent 'phone jacks, IR remotes with battery hatches that don't fit right or have broken tabs now, etc.I figure the USB connector doesn't supply power to the V3. I'll probably never use that since I got a card reader. The OM card reader downloaded shots at over 1 MB/sec, which is fast enough for me I figure.
--> Using the card reader and not using the AC adaptor, I figure I might never need to use THAT hatch. I do have one walkman with a questionable jack but 99% of the time with a walkman those headphones cutting out is a discontinuity in the headphone cord, usually very close to the jack.
--> I'm eyeing the Maha MH-C401FS 100 Min Cool Charger with car adapter for 1 to 4 AA / AAA NiMH/NiCD Batteries, maybe including 8 Powerex 2200 mah AA's. Can maybe get the combo for around $50 on eBay.
Originally posted by: Muse
My concern is not just the longevity of the cells but possible memory effect. Although NiMH cells are often said not to suffer from this, I think they do better when they are completely discharged at least occasionally. I don't know about the Powerizer cells yet, but the Merkury cells I got with my after-MIR free digicam kit do work in the V3, but the V3 stops working with them after 10 or 15 shots (with fairly low LCD use), and there's still plenty of power left in the cells. Without a discharge feature, I either have to charge the cells as is or find another way to discharge them. It took several hours today to discharge them in a flashlight and I decided that's not practical. I think a conditioning charger such as the Maha MH-C204F would give longer battery life from a longevity and per-use standpoint.
Yes, that old charge seems to need over a dozen hours, a timer. That's the type of charger I'm wanting to avoid the most... one that takes long enough I might forget the cells, but rapid enough that it wouldn't be good to leave them in long-term. Then again, considering the low $1 cost of the Powerizers I might be tempted to just leave a pair of cells in it and see what long-term overcharging does to them, how they hold up, since 130ma really isn't all that high a charge rate for [supposedly] 2000mAh cells.Well, it delivers 130 ma. I think I'd have to use it with a timer and again there's no conditioning (pre-drain).
I'm not getting anything like that with the Merkury 1800 mah batteries. I went through two pairs in around 20 shots (superfine, large, little to moderate LCD usage).
The latest data I read, perhaps Sanyo's website documents, seemed to suggest that it's inherant in charging to have temp rise during the last 5-15% of charging, so as a crude measure I may just decide to take cells out once they feel warm.... The more I think about it the less I care if I get 100% capacity, so long as the price/cell is right it's not too hard to find another cam case that'll hold an extra pair of cells if/when needed.Mine seemed pretty warm after charging today. I charged the Powerizer's, which came partially charged. Haven't tried them yet in the V3, except to see that they did have enough power to start the camera.
Rightabout now I'm feeling the opposite, that it'd be nice to have a charger that can do 3 cells at once, I'm thinking of building an LED flashlight. Well actually I don't want to remove the cells from the flashlight, instead attaching a dongled plug to it or a cradle for recharging. An LED flashlight might also be a great way to discharge cells, (though still slowly as you noted) because below a certain voltage level the diodes won't conduct, so while it may drain cells below 1.0V, so long as the cells are even slight near the same charge state the total voltage should drop below the LED's threshold before any one cell drops all the way to zero, has a chance to reverse.Maha makes a MH-C401FS charger that has independent action for all 4 cells, but it doesn't include conditioning (discharge). They claim that the pulse charging makes that unnecessary, but the Great Battery Shootout guy (and I kinda wonder too) says he's a little skeptical. The C204F has two independent banks, and I figure that's probably pretty OK since I always use my AA's in pairs anyway.
I've seen that too, but these did have a jack problem, either it had broken the traces on the PCB or perhaps the springiness of it's internal contacts had been reduced to the point that it was intermittent. I don't use Walkmans so much these days so perhaps they've gotten better in this regard.Using the card reader and not using the AC adaptor, I figure I might never need to use THAT hatch. I do have one walkman with a questionable jack but 99% of the time with a walkman those headphones cutting out is a discontinuity in the headphone cord, usually very close to the jack.
I probably should've done that too, but apparently I have some sort of mental block against paying $50 at a time for battery/gear.I'm eyeing the Maha MH-C401FS 100 Min Cool Charger with car adapter for 1 to 4 AA / AAA NiMH/NiCD Batteries, maybe including 8 Powerex 2200 mah AA's. Can maybe get the combo for around $50 on eBay.
Originally posted by: Muse
>> "I was able to shoot a few dozen pics and several minutes of video with that set of cells, but it concerned me that it was only showing half-capacity. "
>Are these super-fine, large pictures?
The V1000 charger is supposed to have two methods of controlling charge: delta-V (I assume this means that when the voltage spikes up from 1.3 to around 1.4, it cuts out from red to green), and/or timer. What's the timer about, any clue? You did say you were concerned that in the event of a power outage, the V1000 could overcharge batteries. How might that happen? Any timing would be disrupted, of course. Maybe the delta-V would be screwed up, I don't know.
"Rightabout now I'm feeling the opposite, that it'd be nice to have a charger that can do 3 cells at once, I'm thinking of building an LED flashlight. Well actually I don't want to remove the cells from the flashlight, instead attaching a dongled plug to it or a cradle for recharging. An LED flashlight might also be a great way to discharge cells, (though still slowly as you noted) because below a certain voltage level the diodes won't conduct, so while it may drain cells below 1.0V, so long as the cells are even slight near the same charge state the total voltage should drop below the LED's threshold before any one cell drops all the way to zero, has a chance to reverse."
Seems like a good idea. Yesterday I discharged my Merkury's and was watching them for HOURS in two separate flashlights (bright!), and then forgot about them! They must have gone way below 1.0v. Not good. When I put them in the V1000, and turned it on, the V1000 red light started flashing! It went on like that for a minute or two and then went solid red (relief!), and the charge seemed to complete OK (they show around 1.4 volts each), but I wouldn't want to repeat that. I trust the V1000 OK I guess, but I'd like to have a safe, effective, efficient way of conditioning my NiMH's. Maybe I can buy or build an LED flashlight like you're anticipating.
I have a flashlight (which I've had for many years) in which I put 4 C NiCads, which I charge via a charger that plugs into a socket I installed in the flashlight case (don't have to remove the batteries). I just charge it with a wall-wart charger I picked up at the local indy electronics store. Charges in around 15 hours, at least that's what I use based on my calculations (probably wrong but it works!).
Yeah, I know what you mean. Well, I figure I'm going to need more batteries, too. Do you have any idea why I'm getting so few pictures? Well, it could be the Merkury's. I'll experiment with the Powerizer 2000 mah ones and see if there's an improvement. I'm taking all super-fine, large, mostly with the LCD off. I only put the LCD on when I go into the menus. I'm new to the camera, so it takes me more time in the menus since I'm new to them... just learning.
Maybe I'll hold off and see if I can come up with a practical way of conditioning NiMH's that's cheaper than the Maha charger. I'm sure there is! You only have to do it occasionally, apparently, but unless they've improved the technology, it's pretty necessary to keep your batteries functioning decently.
Originally posted by: mindless1
Originally posted by: Muse
>> "I was able to shoot a few dozen pics and several minutes of video with that set of cells, but it concerned me that it was only showing half-capacity. "
>Are these super-fine, large pictures?
Does that affect battery usage? I didn't realize it did. They are highest JPG quality, largest size... that's the only format I've been using so far, though if I ever get around to getting a USB2 reader I might start trying TIFF format.