Looks like Mt. Gox is dead...

[mikegg]

Some of the comments from former users of this exchange = http://finance.yahoo.com/news/comments-people-lost-money-mt-150026704.html

Retirement money? Money to build a house and start a family?

It is sad that people were putting that kind of critical funds into bitcoins.

I feel really bad for them and wished that they put that money into bonds or even stocks instead. When you play with fire, this is what could happen.

They knew very well that bitcoins were never going to be as risk free as bonds or stocks.

Just greed unfortunately.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I had 7 bitcoins that I moved there when the price was up around 1200 wanted to cash out. The price dropped to like 800 overnight so I didn't sell them. Doubt I will ever get them back.

At least they were just coins I mined a fees years back that only cost me a few weeks of electricity. I would never have been stupid enough to put actual money in them.

 

[kranky]

So Flexcoin ("the world's first bitcoin bank") announced all its bitcoins were stolen (other than coins in "cold storage") and is shutting down immediately.

What is the difference between coins in "cold storage" and coins in the "hot wallet"?

Coins in "cold storage" were offline and not stolen. If holders can provide sufficient proof of identity, somehow they can be returned.

Coins in the "hot wallet" were the ones stolen.

 

[dighn]

So Flexcoin ("the world's first bitcoin bank") announced all its bitcoins were stolen (other than coins in "cold storage") and is shutting down immediately.

damn... the illuminati is on a roll

What is the difference between coins in "cold storage" and coins in the "hot wallet"?

a bitcoin wallet has essentially two components, a public address that allows others to send funds to it, and a private key that allows one to send funds from it. if one keeps the private key offline, secure, and seldomly used, there is very little chance of it being compromised. that's essentially cold storage. on the other hand, a hot wallet is a wallet that frequently sends funds and therefore requires the private key to be easily accessible.

 

[Markbnj]

I think, basically, Flexcoin is another major nail in the coffin. Tech geeks and crypto freaks and darknet enthusiasts and anarchists and whatever other interest groups will still talk about it, probably use it, but what are the chances of it ever going more mainstream now? What ordinary Joe will put his savings into a "crypto-currency?" They never understood it even a little bit. Hell, I'm a programmer and I only understand it at a relatively high level. The working public was relying on all the media babble and the fact that all these smart people said this was the neatest thing ever. But if real money is stolen people expect that the authorities can track it down, hopefully get some of it back, and bring the thieves to account. If that can't happen some way here, and it seems like it probably can't, then the whole crypto currency idea is dead, dead, dead.

 

[mikegg]

I think, basically, Flexcoin is another major nail in the coffin. Tech geeks and crypto freaks and darknet enthusiasts and anarchists and whatever other interest groups will still talk about it, probably use it, but what are the chances of it ever going more mainstream now? What ordinary Joe will put his savings into a "crypto-currency?" They never understood it even a little bit. Hell, I'm a programmer and I only understand it at a relatively high level. The working public was relying on all the media babble and the fact that all these smart people said this was the neatest thing ever. But if real money is stolen people expect that the authorities can track it down, hopefully get some of it back, and bring the thieves to account. If that can't happen some way here, and it seems like it probably can't, then the whole crypto currency idea is dead, dead, dead.

Well the whole idea of a currency backed by nothing but wasted electricity and pollution is dumb.

 

[Printer Bandit]

i'm investing in atotcoins

 

[AViking]

Seriously can this get any dumber? How much lower can we get with this crypto currency before everyone gets it?

I don't understand why common sense doesn't prevail.

 

[AViking]

Buying an ETF backed by BTC is completely different than using a Bitcoin exchange to convert your fiat into a Bitcoin.

You are right that the current Bitcoin exchanges render a lot of the points of Bitcoin useless, and that's why they are getting hacked and turning insolvent. There isn't much room for the individual person to deal directly with the Bitcoin protocol because the technology is so difficult to implement correctly. That is what is changing.

More money and development efforts are being put into Bitcoin every day, it's only going to get easier and better for everyone.

Just like the early days of the Internet, if you wanted to really get online and do something worthwhile, you had to know your shit and have access to cutting edge technology.

You honestly don't have a clue. Have you heard of the greater fool theory?

You're the GREATEST fool.

Congratulations.

 

[5150Joker]

Seriously can this get any dumber? How much lower can we get with this crypto currency before everyone gets it?

I don't understand why common sense doesn't prevail.

You'd be surprised at how many retards still defend cryptocoins as a legitimate way of passing around real money. I have no sympathy for those that lost their money.

 

[edro]

I prefer my currency be protected by the most powerful nation in the world.
USD FTW

 

[SaurusX]

All the crypto nerds were saying one of bitcoin's greatest strengths was the public ledger that tracked every bitcoin transaction.... THEN WHERE ARE THE STOLEN COINS??? Was the public ledger line a huge load of BS or what?

 

[_Rick_]

All the crypto nerds were saying one of bitcoin's greatest strengths was the public ledger that tracked every bitcoin transaction.... THEN WHERE ARE THE STOLEN COINS??? Was the public ledger line a huge load of BS or what?

Oh no, the transactions that were the theft are in the public ledger. But the sole identification (system-wise, since it's over IP you can trace someone at that level) is the identifier of the key that can be used to transfer the funds.

Of course, if the entire mining network were to co-operate, this operation could be rolled back. But that would require perfect timing from all involved.

 

[jagec]

Of course, if the entire mining network were to co-operate, this operation could be rolled back. But that would require perfect timing from all involved.

And would be considered a major departure from the entire idea of Bitcoin. They're never going to do it.

 

[SaurusX]

Oh no, the transactions that were the theft are in the public ledger. But the sole identification (system-wise, since it's over IP you can trace someone at that level) is the identifier of the key that can be used to transfer the funds.

Of course, if the entire mining network were to co-operate, this operation could be rolled back. But that would require perfect timing from all involved.

So there is a public ledger, but it's basically useless when it comes to using it for security. So... what good is it at all? It sounds totally superfluous.

 

[BoberFett]

So there is a public ledger, but it's basically useless when it comes to using it for security. So... what good is it at all? It sounds totally superfluous.

I would guess it's designed for the security of the currency, not for the security of who possesses the currency.

If you create accurate counterfeit paper money it's impossible to tell the difference between that and real money at the point of transaction.

If you create counterfeit cryptocurrency, the network will tell you that it's counterfeit.

That says nothing of who tried to spend it.

 

[mizzou]

I would guess it's designed for the security of the currency, not for the security of who possesses the currency.

If you create accurate counterfeit paper money it's impossible to tell the difference between that and real money at the point of transaction.

If you create counterfeit cryptocurrency, the network will tell you that it's counterfeit.

That says nothing of who tried to spend it.

It is possible to tell counterfeit paper money from real money at the point of transaction, but it can be difficult if you don't know what to look for.

As far as I can tell, the network that is handling cryptocurrencies is not 100% trustworthy anyway

 

[BoberFett]

It is possible to tell counterfeit paper money from real money at the point of transaction, but it can be difficult if you don't know what to look for.

As far as I can tell, the network that is handling cryptocurrencies is not 100% trustworthy anyway

That's why I said accurate. If your bills look exactly like real bills, there's no way for the person accepting them to know. With cryptocurrency, you can get an immediate answer from the network. And yes, that assumes the network is trustworthy.

http://qz.com/165273/the-existentia...-boosters-said-was-impossible-is-now-at-hand/

 

[Ns1]

That's why I said accurate. If your bills look exactly like real bills, there's no way for the person accepting them to know. ]

 

[Markbnj]

I would guess it's designed for the security of the currency, not for the security of who possesses the currency.

If you create accurate counterfeit paper money it's impossible to tell the difference between that and real money at the point of transaction.

If you create counterfeit cryptocurrency, the network will tell you that it's counterfeit.

That says nothing of who tried to spend it.

That's an important point. In that sense crypto-currencies mimic the characteristics of physical currencies: as long as the thing perfectly fits what it is supposed to be it is accepted as genuine. But the main reason for alternate currencies seems to be to create a means of exchange that doesn't rely on the government or existing bank-run financial systems.

Unfortunately, those are the systems that attach financial activity to identity and make it possible to create security. Otherwise we'd all still have our nest eggs in the mattress or a buried coffee can.

 

[BoberFett]

So you believe that there are magical elves that conjure up paper money which cannot be created by any mortal?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

lol bitcoin

 

[Ns1]

So you believe that there are magical elves that conjure up paper money which cannot be created by any mortal?

no, I believe that money is printed using machines and paper that is not easily attainable by most mortals, of which authenticity can be verified using a $5 pen.

 

[ImpulsE69]

My initial investigations along with my deep understanding of the subject matter at hand has led to the discovery that someone forgot to carry the 1.

 

[Mark R]

So there is a public ledger, but it's basically useless when it comes to using it for security. So... what good is it at all? It sounds totally superfluous.

The purpose of the public ledger is to know whether a particular account is currently in possession of BTC or not.

So, if account 1ABCdefGHi1234 wants to send you BTC, then you can know immediately whether the transaction is likely to succeed or not (you won't know for sure until the network confirms the transaction, which is done by consensus by looking at the same public ledger).

The problem is that bitcoin obfuscates the path of coins whenever possible; the ledger is not designed for tracing individual users, and even if it you tried, there is nothing stopping a user from having 10, or 100, or 10,000 different accounts. There are forensic techniques available for working out which accounts are grouped together into a single wallet, so with careful enough examination of the blockchain, you can be reasonably confident that multiplpe BTC end up in the hands of the same person, even if they have taken different routes.

The difficulty with the MtGox situation, is that the alleged theft occurred in pieces over several years. Even a cursory examination of the ledger, shows with absolute confidence, that there was no single transaction, nor series of large transactions out of accounts known to be held by MtGox which could explain this.

MtGox "hot" accounts were very busy, accounting for close to 5% of all transactions. The alleged mode of theft was for duplicate transactions to be sent to specific accounts. In that case, they will be in the ledger, but hidden by the noise. If the thieves were smart enough to request the duplicate payment to another address, then they may not be traceable at all. It doesn't mean that the payments aren't in the ledger, just that it doesn't hold enough information.

What would be more interesting is MtGox's internal databases. These should hold the support tickets where people requested repeat withdrawrals, and a list of all the transactions on their accounts.

Allegedly there is a Russian hacking group who appears to have stolen this MySQL database (complete with embedded scans of passports, etc.) who are claiming to be preparing a torrent release....