Looks like The Titanic killed a few more people

[Captante]

Watching that show on the Alvin, I have 2 thoughts:

1) I’m assuming that sub is still in the middle of being upgraded and is unable to join the search?

2) Damn, they’ve been perfecting that sub design since the 60s and done 100s of dives???? Did OceanGate make any effort to learn from/copy that designer is it still a naval secret???

I recall being a little kid and being fascinated with Jacques Cousteau (RIP) and his amazing underwater explorations while staying up late with my mom to watch his TV "specials". (he was one of her heroes... mine too!)

And this was over 50 years ago!


Unregulated "tourism" like this needs to be banned considering they seem to SOMEHOW rate government assistance. Frankly I don't appreciate my tax-dollars being wasted trying to find these retards. This "accident" in retrospect was about as hard to predict as getting messed up going over Niagara Falls in a barrel and rates the same level of recovery-expense.

 

[Greenman]

Watching that show on the Alvin, I have 2 thoughts:

1) I’m assuming that sub is still in the middle of being upgraded and is unable to join the search?

2) Damn, they’ve been perfecting that sub design since the 60s and done 100s of dives???? Did OceanGate make any effort to learn from/copy that designer is it still a naval secret???

It was designed by old white guy's, they didn't want that input.

 

[Captante]

It was designed by old white guy's, they didn't want that input.

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes?

They really hit the jackpot this time.

 

[Greenman]

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes?

They really hit the jackpot this time.

I find the entire thing incredibly sad. It appears that this was caused by simple hubris, by a group of people that thought they had all the answers, when they might not have even known all the questions.

 

[Captante]

Per the BBC news video I was just watching even if they find them ON THE SURFACE now, unless the actual launch-vessel can get to them in a hurry they still all die because no other ship can even get that piece of junk onto the deck in one piece AND it CANNOT be opened while in the water!

 

[sze5003]

I wonder if it will go the route of MH370..we know what happened but will never know exactly the situation of events that took place.

Does anyone know if they have updated the amount of oxygen they were expected to have today?

I remember it was supposed to run out today.

 

[Captante]

I wonder if it will go the route of MH370..we know what happened but will never know exactly the situation of events that took place.

Does anyone know if they have updated the amount of oxygen they were expected to have today?

I remember it was supposed to run out today.

Roughly 12 hours at the time the video I mentioned above was made. (approx 730a EDT US)

So 8-9 max now?

 

[amenx]

If the power went off (very likely after first day ) they would have died from the cold before oxygen ran out. It was not designed to be powered on for days, just quick trips to the Titanic and back within 12 hours at most.

 

[hal2kilo]

Roughly 12 hours at the time the video I mentioned above was made. (approx 730a EDT US)

So 8-9 max now?

Seeing as how bad their whole setup is, I doubt the have any extra lithium hydroxide to spread around in the compartment or 02 candles. (First sea trial I went on was my worst). The still died, which means no water or air, that's why I know about the lithium hydroxide and O2 candles. It did get repaired while at sea.

 

[Captante]

Really the only people who had ANY business at all going to the bottom of the ocean in an EXPERIMENTAL sub are the hare-brained "geniuses" who designed it and/or a test-pilot/explorer who FULLY understood the risk they were taking.

The only "positive" news I see coming here is that the "man" most responsible for this appears to have gotten what he deserved and tighter regulation will certainly be forthcoming.

 

[Leeea]

Really the only people who had ANY business at all going to the bottom of the ocean in an EXPERIMENTAL sub are the hare-brained "geniuses" who designed it and/or a test-pilot/explorer who FULLY understood the risk they were taking.

The only "positive" news I see coming here is that the "man" most responsible for this appears to have gotten what he deserved and tighter regulation will certainly be forthcoming.

It is somewhat disappointment to see tighter regulation in this space.


But I can see the argument. The passengers are not likely going to be qualified to judge the seaworthiness of any submarine passenger vessel. I suppose someone will have to come up with regulations for submarine passenger vessels.


A bit disappointing, but inevitable.

Especially with tax payer dollars being spent on rescue efforts.

 

[Captante]

whoops wrong thread!

 

[eelw]

I find the entire thing incredibly sad. It appears that this was caused by simple hubris, by a group of people that thought they had all the answers, when they might not have even known all the questions.

Indeed. Rode on SpaceX. Climbed Everest. Went even deeper into the Mariana Trench

 

[Zorba]

Yeah ask him where he got that carbon part from. Also carbon fiber does not shatter on bicycles. I mean maybe the cheap Chinese crap.

It's just not how it works with good carbon parts.

Yeah, my experience with carbon fiber is all in aviation, but it's actually pretty flexible. One problem with it vs unhardened steel or aluminum, though, is it doesn't yield when it's over loaded, it starts to crack. This is probably where it gets it's bad rap on bikes, accidents that would've bent an aluminum bike breaks fibers and then later it fails under lower load than it should have.

 

[sdifox]

Per the BBC news video I was just watching even if they find them ON THE SURFACE now, unless the actual launch-vessel can get to them in a hurry they still all die because no other ship can even get that piece of junk onto the deck in one piece AND it CANNOT be opened while in the water!

Pretty sure drilling an air hole through carbon fibre is not that hard. Same with plexiglass.

 

[Zorba]

The ISS does maintain a normal oxygen nitrogen atmosphere around 14.7psi.

I’d say structural design requirements for orbital conditions are more benign than at the sea floor near the Titanic but the design requirements for a space vehicle to survive ascent and entry are more difficult than for the submersible.

Fatigue would be pretty different too. Subs would have very high load cycling for a relatively low numbers of cycles, while orbiting space craft get at least a couple cycles every orbit due to solar heating. Meaning something like the ISS has at least 300k thermal cycles on it.

 

[MrSquished]

Carbon-fiber IS much more prone to catastrophic failure then aluminum or steel in bike frames but the advantages are lighter weight then either plus a "softer" ride similar to steel.

Biggest negative to CF parts/frames is that even very minor damage is cause for replacement. Also make no mistake... even a "top-quality" CF fork WILL snap/shatter and send you flying FAR easier then metal will. (especially steel) They have come a long way from the days when $300+ CF forks would splinter hitting a pothole at random though!

Yes carbon is easier to get damaged and be unrepairable and have to be totally replaced, which is not good at all, but it's not going to explode into a million pieces unless you buy cheap crap. We are a long way from those days. Pretty much any professional racer, road or mountain, uses carbon bikes. They are not exploding. Carbon does have advantages as well, the weight, the shock absorption is better than aluminum, it does not fatigue like aluminum. Also, for example, carbon is stiffer which is great for a transfer of power such as with the cranks.

My bike is steel but with a carbon crankset, carbon handlebars and a carbon fork. Soon getting a carbon suspension seatpost and that will be about all the carbon I use. I like the feel of steel and knowing the frame can take more dings. Hoping to get a lifetime titanium frameset though one day. Those last forever.

 

[Zorba]

it does not need to be a massive hull failure. It would just as likely to spring a leak. it would take a while to fill with water and pressure but the result is the same, but no big bang to hear on the hydrophones.

Passed on my calculations a hole with a flow area 0.72 inch squared would fill the entire volume of the sub in less than a minute.

In real life if the air in the sub was trapped, as the sub filled with water, the air would compress and heat (a lot) while being compressed. So they'd either be killed by the pressure, the heat, or the water pretty fast.

 

[eelw]

But wouldn’t that tiny hole compromise the structure and collapse it?

 

[Pens1566]

But wouldn’t that tiny hole compromise the structure and collapse it?

At a certain depth/pressure? Yeah. Say, an hour and 45 minutes into a 2hr dive to Titanic ...

 

[hal2kilo]

Yeah, my experience with carbon fiber is all in aviation, but it's actually pretty flexible. One problem with it vs unhardened steel or aluminum, though, is it doesn't yield when it's over loaded, it starts to crack. This is probably where it gets it's bad rap on bikes, accidents that would've bent an aluminum bike breaks fibers and then later it fails under lower load than it should have.

Cycling of pressure is always part of determining a submarines longevity. I know of one Trident boat that has a depth restriction. When I started with the program, many of the Poseidon class boats had depth restrictions due to age, They were replaced by Tridents, and as those have aged, the replacement has been designed, not aware of the build schedule though.

 

[MrSquished]

Yeah, my experience with carbon fiber is all in aviation, but it's actually pretty flexible. One problem with it vs unhardened steel or aluminum, though, is it doesn't yield when it's over loaded, it starts to crack. This is probably where it gets it's bad rap on bikes, accidents that would've bent an aluminum bike breaks fibers and then later it fails under lower load than it should have.

Yup. That is the issue with good carbon on bikes. It might crack, so you have to check it after any mishap. Because then it will not be structurally sound and could fail like you say, and then can't be repaired but needs replacing. But it's not shattering lol. These pros that race road and mountain are already putting themselves at high risk of injury, they are not riding exploding bikes.

 

[Zorba]

Depending on depth even a small leak could potentially fill the interior of the sub in a serious hurry even if the overall strength of the sub wasn't compromised.

However from what I know about carbon fiber, any even "small" defect would very likely cause immediate and catastrophic failure of the entire structure.

THIS (among other things) is why the designers of the Titan are in fact irresponsible morons.

This isn't true about carbon fiber. It is actually very damage tolerant compared to nearly all hardened metals. Damage tolerant in a crack not growing from cyclic loading.

Cabon fiber is used all over aircraft and there haven't been any catastrophic failures.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Debris field discovered.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671910009603518464

 

[hal2kilo]

This isn't true about carbon fiber. It is actually very damage tolerant compared to nearly all hardened metals. Damage tolerant in a crack not growing from cyclic loading.

Cabon fiber is used all over aircraft and there haven't been any catastrophic failures.

What happened with that vertical stabilizer on the Airbus that went down over NY?