Looks to me like its going to be President Gore

[Russ]

<< They only have to count the undervotes....not all the votes..... >>



Ride525,

That is ALL they were counting the first time; only those that were kicked out during the machine count. And, they are NOT undervotes. They are NOT votes at all. If you want the &quot;intent&quot; of the voter, it was NOT to vote in the race.

A nick or ding caused by handling is not a vote, but an opportunity for fabrication.

Russ, NCNE

 

[UG]

Frankly, I'm finding this entire situation to be eminently educational, totally captivating, quite interesting it its highlighting of the interplay of the three checked and balanced branches of Federal and State governments, and all according to that which was set forth in the Constitution long ago by men far larger in stature than any currently participating in this unfortunate melodrama.

I find all this partisan bickering to be far less engaging, though I imagine that it largely parallels what must have transpired amongst those men at the birth of our nation who still managed to produce such a remarkable document as the US Constitution.

I am convinced no such equivalent result will come from the current political debate, here or anywhere -- just animus, contempt, distrust, uncertainty, and general disregard for the needs of anyone not a subscriber to the winning political party.

Politics (n) the art of obtaining money from the rich and votes from the poor, on the pretext of protecting each from the other. -- Oscar Ameringer

Men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives. -- Abba Eban

 

[ride525]

<< That is ALL they were counting the first time. >>

I thought they were doing both....trying only the undervotes....then trying and getting 1/5 of the TOTAL votes....


<< A nick or ding caused by handling is not a vote, but an opportunity for fabrication. >>

No argument from me there.

 

[SJ]

Ride, they were doing both, they were counting the undervote while the counters were counting the 600,000. They seperated the undervote before the recount started. Dade had 11,200 odd undervotes to start with.

 

[Russ]

ride525,

Nope. They were counting only &quot;disputed&quot; ballots. These are defined by democrats as any ballot from which they might be able to create a Gore vote.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Russ]

SJ,

That's a misnomer. They did NOT manually recount all 600,000 votes. They ran them through the machines once again, and counted only those that were kicked out.

Russ, NCNE

 

[JellyBaby]

Call me silly but the moment this election went beyond FL's mandatory machine recount, it became unfair. Everything past that point has been partisan interference to tweak the counting simply to get a certain side to come out on top in FL, thus securing the national election.

With the election so close, the only way to get an absolutely accurate vote count is to have God solidify and hand count every county in every state. Only She could get it done in a timely manner I might add. Not gunna-do-it. So, we should have settled for the result as determined by laws on the books on Nov. 7th.

Gore and Bush's attornies have tested laws and the constitution, and that would be a good thing...except today we seem to have a lack of impartial judges. Very disappointing stuff. Hopefully the US Supremes will make a decision that spanks down the nutballs in FL while speaking to the future so we need not go through this nonsense again.

 

[SJ]

Ok ok, maybe I jumped the gun a little bit...

 

[RJRD2]

GORE SUCKS!!!!!!

 

[SVTPower]

Yeah Red &quot;No Matter What Any Of Us Thinks&quot;

K Red let me see here

Al Gore is the better choice because YOU think so.
Democrats are the better choice because YOU think so.
You are better then everyone else bacause YOU think so.

K I'll stop there and just ask, Do you have some kind of Church for yourself or any other organizations cause I would sure like to make a donation to it.

 

[Valhalla1]

the democrats are full of sh!t, they are saying that if these undervotes aren't counted, then all the florida voters are &quot;disenfranchised&quot;, which is wrong.

fl. has comparatively one of the lower rates of &quot;undervotes&quot; amongst all the states. less than 1%, whereas some states had more than 5% of voters who chose not to vote for a president.

 

[Russ]

<< They are making sure the one who actually received the most votes wins. >>



Red,

Anyone who says they believe that is either lying or delusional. They don't give a damn about accuracy; the entire effort is directed at creating votes for Gore where NONE existed.

I thought you were smarter then that.

Russ, NCNE

 

[JellyBaby]

Red,

<< They are making sure the one who actually received the most votes wins. >>

I'm not sure who's actually doing the undercount recounting but I'm sure partisanship will have a factor. And even if the counting was truly impartial, human error is always present especially now when they'll be rushed to get it done ASAP.

So, again we're unable to accurately and impartially determine who had the most votes. This can of worms has exploded and there's a big fat nightcrawler in your hair, Red.

 

[ride525]

Hopefully we'll find out who REALLY has the most votes....not just the most votes the machines can read...

 

[UG]

Impartiality is the ability to not think of a white elephant now that I've mentioned one.

 

[JellyBaby]

<< Hopefully we'll find out who REALLY has the most votes....not just the most votes the machines can read... >>

We can't, it's that simple and therein lies the problem. If you seriously believe you're getting an accurate nationwide election result you're blinded by partisanship, plain and simple. Nobody's really winning this election but one side must be declared winner. Why can't they win with the laws in effect for this year's election?

It's curious nobody really cared about constancy in past elections that weren't so close. Somehow tallying under the rules that governed past elections was good enough. Now, because we have two polarized groups, new laws are written to accomodate the whims of the powerful. I'll call it Just In Time Elections. It's all the new rage.

If it was Harry Browne in Bush's place, Gore would win simply because he can afford to bankroll a legion of lawyers to influence the outcome and Harry couldn't. And that's a sad shame.

 

[ckluu]

Count the military votes!Count the military votes!

 

[ckluu]

Screw the military because they are not allow to protest.
Democrats SUCKS!!!

 

[Valhalla1]

what a great time to be an American

 

[DefRef]

The only &quot;zealots trying to win at all costs&quot; are the Gore team. Bush is only trying to keep his LEGITIMATE (albeit narrow) victory from being stolen by Democratic judges.

100,000,000 votes were cast. Only four counted. FOUR partisan hack judges!:|

 

[Slugbait]

I read over and over again from GOP folk here that counting the ballots that were rejected by the machines means there isn't a vote, and is instead an opportunity for Gore to get some additional votes...despite the long history of these machines screwing up like this.

Which leads me to the following: Dubya knows those machines can screw up votes. He knows they will result in thousands of dimples, or indentures, or whatever, that can show intent to vote a particular way.

That's why Bush personally signed into law in the state of Texas that those &quot;disputed&quot; ballots in his own state can be hand counted. Many of you here are obviously saying since it isn't Texas, the votes don't exist, and even tho' Bush is desperately trying to prevent Florida from doing what Texas law -- his law -- permits, Gore is still the bad guy.

Sounds like the only thing that's good for the goose is a hatchet.

I happen to find this whole election crap rather interesting. Minorities complaining, senior citizens complaining, the spread is over 1800, no wait - it's less than 160, we can blame everything on &quot;America's Peeeeeenus&quot;, the court is so partisan as to screw up the entire election, my coke fiend can beat up your liar...

Suffice it to say...this won't end until the next election. It doesn't matter who wins now...it's only going to get more interesting four years from now. And it's going to drastically affect both the house and the senate, as well as the presidency. Just you wait and see...

 

[UG]

The best outcome of all is that both parties are so locked in mortal, political combat that each never has the chance to screw the rest of us by legislative fiat.

 

[DefRef]

More Big Lie? Propaganda in action:

The Texas law that the Goreistas have misrepresented over and over and over and over (until most people mistakenly believe that it's a fact) states that for recounts, you can have a machine recount OR a machine recount with revised software OR a hand recount, with each method allowed preference over the previous method.

It does NOT mean that &quot;hand counts are best&quot;, as the Gore misrepresentation team claims, but rather that you pick ONE METHOD and THAT'S IT!!! No multiple recounts. No changing the rules after the election. No suing to relax standards when you're not &quot;finding&quot; enough votes. You pick a method, do the count, call it where it lays.

Gore NEVER intended to do a full count. In fact, if the USSC doesn't stop this madness and the counts happen and BUSH picks up votes, Gore will sue AGAIN, because his a psychotic, delusional nutjob who has no life beyond this.

 

[Moonbeam]

I have spent many days now listening carefully to hundreds of opinions on this election from every side trying to put aside my preferences long enough to take seriously the complaints of all and to try to see in them an expression of honest feeling and truthfulness. I had had, for example, great hope that the absentee ballots in Martin and Seminole would be thrown out until I learned that the numbers were left off as a result of a printion error. Tempting as it would be to make the Repubs eat that one because of their insistance on personal responsibility when it comes to other technicalities like punching through a ballot or the lack of sympathy for those who obviously voted wrong for Bucannon, it would have been unjust, in my opinion to throw out those votes. I feel the same way about military votes without a postmark. Count them.

I want the person who actually got the most votes to win. I think that is what the Fl supreme court ruled. Count the votes. Naturally, if your man is ahead, you don't want to count any more votes. But I have come to the conclusion that, just as Red said, the election must be based on a combination of the best possible vote count and the law as it applies to that count.

The law allows a recount, it allows a hand recount, it allows for an interpretation of voter intent. There will be two people at a minimum from each side looking at everything. Following a legally proscribed proceedure provided in law even with flaws to determine the possible intent of the questioned ballots will provide the truest measure of the real intention of the voters in Florida. I am so glad that all uncounted ballots from all the state, and not just the three Democratic counties will be included. The result, I believe will show that Bush was never the winner in Florida. The notion that intent cannot be determined, is, I believe, a rationalization for those who want to win over to know the truth. Anything less than the deepest attempt to determine the true count will be fraud, in my opinion. To wish for what is true will make it possible to accept Bush if he wins a real full count, not a count in which he does anything and everything to keep the true numbers from being known.

 

[Slugbait]

Moonbeam, well said.

DefRef, you were obviously replying to what I had said. However, you went the wrong way...you need to re-read what I posted. And to blow a big hole in your argument:

<< But a Texas statute expressly says a ballot can be counted where &quot;an indentation on the chad from the stylus or other object is present and indicates a clearly ascertainable intent of the voter to vote.&quot; A 1997 amendment, signed by Governor Bush, favors a manual recount of disputed votes above a machine recount >>

Which is exactly what my point was all about. Note that it said manual recount, not software, hardware, etc. Found that quote at CNN