Looper: how does this time travel premise make sense?

[z1ggy]

gotcha, yes sending people into the future for extermination would make more sense. Maybe someone who sees it can update the thread this weekend because if not i do not understand it and want to know the reason well before the BD comes out.

Explain to me how they would send him forward in time to himself, where he looks younger ( in the future). Clearly.. they are sending people back in time. Unless when the 2074 version of yourself gets to 2044 and you replace your current person, there will always be 2 versions of yourself in 2044, thus.. you would never really be gone and always reach 2074, just to be sent back again.

Movie makes no sense but it's prob got some sweet action, etc. People are mainly idiots now a days and probably don't really think too hard about the plot and what's really going on.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Take it none of you played any of the Journeyman Projects or saw Timecop, or even Terminator?

All time premises are basically the same, go back in time, and kill someone so they don't exist in the future therefore whatever they did between time A and time B didn't happen.

So say, someone invented an engine that didn't run on oil. You can bet Exxon would be sending someone back in time to kill that person so it didn't get invented.

The whole "future" self thing is probably just related to the story and the fact he was sent to kill himself. There's a major plot hole there, but since none of us have time travelled, we don't truly know how that works......or have you? o O

 

[airdata]

The us government did that to bin laden.

 

[waggy]

Send them back in time 8 billion years or so. Those bones aren't getting found.

exactly. 30 years in the past? wtf..

though im sure the movie has a great reason for it. one that makes sense is backed with rock solid science.

There's a major plot hole there, but since none of us have time travelled, we don't truly know how that works......or have you? o O

if i were to tell you i would have to kill you..again..:whiste:

 

[pontifex]

Why wouldn't you just send your victim back 6,000 years when people and dinosaurs roamed the earth together. There is no way they would survive either the dinosaurs or the barbaric conditions and any evidence left in 2074 would be fossils.

the flinstones is not real historic video footage...

 

[pontifex]

Won't there still be the "2044" version of the victim walking around? So by killing that "2074" person in year 2044, just eliminates the 2074 victim, but not the 2044 one? Which.. would then create an endless loop of the same person being killed over and over and over.

this is my question about it also. why not kill the 2044 version so that he is not there in 2074?

 

[sdifox]

killing them in the past does not upset past timeline, that is why you do it. You don't cause alternate timeline like back in the future. You avoid the whole causality thing too.

 

[z1ggy]

killing them in the past does not upset past timeline, that is why you do it. You don't cause alternate timeline like back in the future. You avoid the whole causality thing too.

Pontifex and mine's point is that just because you send somebody back in time doesn't imply that that person replaces the current version of the person in that time period. I.e. like going back in time and warning your past self not to do something, etc.

The only way this makes sense is if 2074 person ends up in 2044 and completely takes up the current position and life of the current 2044 person. Otherwise you will end up with an endless loop of 2074 people going back to 2044 to be killed.


Also...If you kill them in the past, how could they ever end up in the future to be killed in the first place?

 

[sdifox]

Pontifex and mine's point is that just because you send somebody back in time doesn't imply that that person replaces the current version of the person in that time period. I.e. like going back in time and warning your past self not to do something, etc.

The only way this makes sense is if 2074 person ends up in 2044 and completely takes up the current position and life of the current 2044 person. Otherwise you will end up with an endless loop of 2074 people going back to 2044 to be killed.


Also...If you kill them in the past, how could they ever end up in the future to be killed in the first place?

you are still confused.

the future you is not the current you. There is no endless loop. You are born in 2030, lived to 2074 and then disappeared without a trace.

 

[jagec]

So why can't they do the same thing in 2074 to make someone vanish?

Because they made it illegal in 2074, duh.

 

[clamum]

Head motherfuckin asplodes.

 

[z1ggy]

you are still confused.

the future you is not the current you. There is no endless loop. You are born in 2030, lived to 2074 and then disappeared without a trace.

OKay... but then all of a sudden while you are in 2044.. another one of you shows up and gets killed. In 2074 you vanish with out a trace, but the original 2044 version of you keeps living despite the fact that the older 2074 person was killed in 2044. Then you make it to 2074 again.. get sent back in time.. the loop repeats.

 

[sdifox]

OKay... but then all of a sudden while you are in 2044.. another one of you shows up and gets killed. In 2074 you vanish with out a trace, but the original 2044 version of you keeps living despite the fact that the older 2074 person was killed in 2044. Then you make it to 2074 again.. get sent back in time.. the loop repeats.

there is no loop... There is just one temporal anomaly where in the 2074 you coexist with the 2077 you.


This is assuming the 2044 you kills the 2074 you. If it is the other way around, we have causality.

 

[Phanuel]

OKay... but then all of a sudden while you are in 2044.. another one of you shows up and gets killed. In 2074 you vanish with out a trace, but the original 2044 version of you keeps living despite the fact that the older 2074 person was killed in 2044. Then you make it to 2074 again.. get sent back in time.. the loop repeats.

What loop?

1. I grow up and live through to 2074.

2. Mob decides, in 2074, that I need to be eliminated.

3. Mob kidnaps me, sends me back in time to 2044 with gold strapped to me as payment for my elimination to the Looper.

4. Looper kills me, I never met my 2044 self. I just showed up in a field, in an empty warehouse, wherever, blindfolded and got shot.

5. ???

6. Looper collects payment and disposes of my body in 2044.

7. Looper reaches an old age in 2074 and is then himself sent back to be killed by another Looper, potentially himself as is happening in this movie, to cover up what's been happening.


What endless loop of myself going back? I go back once and get killed. End of story. Why is this impossible for you to grasp? I'm not being sent back in time to kill myself, I'm being sent back in time to be killed.

 

[sdifox]

you understand close the loop is an expression right?

 

[Phanuel]

you understand close the loop is an expression right?

I don't understand what you're saying now if it's directed at me. You're born, you live, you die. When you die doesn't matter if there's time travel as long as you die in a non-causality loop causing way. Which they aren't in this movie.

 

[LTC8K6]

What loop?

1. I grow up and live through to 2074.

2. Mob decides, in 2074, that I need to be eliminated.

3. Mob kidnaps me, sends me back in time to 2044 with gold strapped to me as payment for my elimination to the Looper.

4. Looper kills me, I never met my 2044 self. I just showed up in a field, in an empty warehouse, wherever, blindfolded and got shot.

5. ???

6. Looper collects payment and disposes of my body in 2044.

7. Looper reaches an old age in 2074 and is then himself sent back to be killed by another Looper, potentially himself as is happening in this movie, to cover up what's been happening.


What endless loop of myself going back? I go back once and get killed. End of story. Why is this impossible for you to grasp? I'm not being sent back in time to kill myself, I'm being sent back in time to be killed.

Looper kills your 2074 self and takes the gold. Looper then goes to your 2044 self and explains what will happen in 2074. Your 2044 self is now aware and can avoid his 2074 fate.

Or something.

 

[z1ggy]

What loop?

1. I grow up and live through to 2074.

2. Mob decides, in 2074, that I need to be eliminated.

3. Mob kidnaps me, sends me back in time to 2044 with gold strapped to me as payment for my elimination to the Looper.

4. Looper kills me, I never met my 2044 self. I just showed up in a field, in an empty warehouse, wherever, blindfolded and got shot.

5. ???

6. Looper collects payment and disposes of my body in 2044.

7. Looper reaches an old age in 2074 and is then himself sent back to be killed by another Looper, potentially himself as is happening in this movie, to cover up what's been happening.


What endless loop of myself going back? I go back once and get killed. End of story. Why is this impossible for you to grasp? I'm not being sent back in time to kill myself, I'm being sent back in time to be killed.

Where I am confused or you are confused is the whole part that in 2044 at one point there will be TWO of you. The 2044 version and the 2074 version. One is young, one is old. The old you gets killed while the young one KEEPS ON LIVING. The young version of you then makes it to 2074... getting old...Mob gets you.. sends you back to 2044.. repeat. Please explain where my logic is wrong? Not being a dick I am legit confused because that is how I am rationalizing this scenario.

Ok after reading again, I think the issue here, is when I say "you". By "you" I was assuming that I am not killing myself. I was thinking some random guy goes back in time..Not the guy who is the hired assassin.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Why are you arguing about a fucking movie plot? God you are dense. Don't post anymore.

 

[oddyager]

It's a movie about time traveling. That alone throws any type of logic out the window. Yes the whole plot of killing victims in the past is stupid but so was the Kyle Reese-John Connor subplot for the Terminator series. I love the movies though.

 

[Fern]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox

OP, read the above on the Grandfather Paradox and the theoretical solutions to the paradox. Perhaps that will help.

Fern

 

[Phanuel]

Where I am confused or you are confused is the whole part that in 2044 at one point there will be TWO of you. The 2044 version and the 2074 version. One is young, one is old. The old you gets killed while the young one KEEPS ON LIVING. The young version of you then makes it to 2074... getting old...Mob gets you.. sends you back to 2044.. repeat. Please explain where my logic is wrong? Not being a dick I am legit confused because that is how I am rationalizing this scenario.

This is what I don't understand what you don't understand.

How does it repeat? The event happens once. From the guy who lived in 2044 to 2074 and then was killed, he only experiences his life once. He is born, grows to 2044, something he never experiences happens to someone he isn't yet, he continues living, hits 2074, gets sent back and murdered. If there was no time travel involved, he'd have just been murdered in 2074. It makes no difference to his 2044 self at that point with or without time travel.

The only reason time travel is involved is because by 2074, crime is pretty much impossible to commit so the mob or whoever uses time travel to 'disappear' the victim before killing them somewhere else.

Just pretend the time travel device is a plane and we put 2074 guy on a plane and flew him to Darfur before finishing him off. Ain't nobody going looking for you in Darfur (2044).


Fern, the grandfather paradox isn't even involved. The average guy being killed by a Looper is just going from living to dead at the end of his life in 2074. We're not using time travel to kill our younger selves at all.

 

[Fern]

-snip-

Fern, the grandfather paradox isn't even involved. The average guy being killed by a Looper is just going from living to dead at the end of his life in 2074. We're not using time travel to kill our younger selves at all.

Yeah. I put it out there because I'm a little confused by the OP's question/problem. I was thinking maybe one of the solutions to the GP would apply for whatever his difficulty is.

Fern

 

[Fern]

I haven't seen the movie. No spoilers pls.

I'm curious to see the '74 version of Willis' reaction upon being looped back and meeting his '44 self. The reaction will tell you something about the writers view on alt timelines etc.

Fern

 

[Phanuel]

I haven't seen the movie. No spoilers pls.

I'm curious to see the '74 version of Willis' reaction upon being looped back and meeting his '44 self. The reaction will tell you something about the writers view on alt timelines etc.

Fern

Watch the trailers out there, that interaction is there. They also explain everything I've just explained. The fact that the OP is wtfconfuzaled is really breaking down my brain in a bad way.