Loose plugs

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
Why can't plugs be designed properly?

They always seem to be too loose or don't make proper contact. I don't get how in this day and age they can't design these things properly. Only my new UPS has those super tight plugs, my old one is also loose.

Seems like this would be easy to design.
 

BxgJ

Golden Member
Jul 27, 2015
1,054
123
106
You could substitute many things for 'plugs' in your question. Typically its the 'save a penny, lose a dollar' situation. It happens often, a lower quality part or tool is chosen to reduce cost, then even more money is spent than was saved to fix the problems the lower quality part or tool causes.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
You could substitute many things for 'plugs' in your question. Typically its the 'save a penny, lose a dollar' situation. It happens often, a lower quality part or tool is chosen to reduce cost, then even more money is spent than was saved to fix the problems the lower quality part or tool causes.

 

us3rnotfound

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2003
5,334
3
81
Had old receptacles at an old 70s-construction apartment with the loosest plugs in West Lafayette. Those were not made in China, I'm quite sure.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Why can't plugs be designed properly?

They always seem to be too loose or don't make proper contact. I don't get how in this day and age they can't design these things properly. Only my new UPS has those super tight plugs, my old one is also loose.

Seems like this would be easy to design.
Engineer: "I've finished a design concept for this project that'll be easy to use, easy to manufacture, and will use readily-sourced materials. The per-piece cost should be around $0.15."

Management: "That's nice and all, but we need a per-piece cost of no more than $0.006. Figure out something to meet that cost point."

Engineer: <dies a little inside at the thought of the abomination that's about to be created>


I was once told to find a piece of equipment without much in the way of guidelines, other than "This is a problem. Fix it." I looked at high-end models in the $4k-$5k range, but figured management would want to get something basic to start with, so I found some adequate $1k ones.
After presenting those options, I learned that I was supposed to be looking at something in the area of $60.
Ok, fine, we'll get something suited for a high school science project. And of course, guess who gets hassled for picking such a lousy solution. Yeah.


(In time, we did get one of the high-end models that I originally looked at when it became very apparent that the initial solution was poorly-matched to the application and was indeed costing us money.)
 
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Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
When in doubt...



:awe:

Loose plugs are a hazard. Borrow a FLIR and check out the hot spots.
A good socket will have a nylon face. Bakelite ones should be replaced.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Shouldn't be hard to replace a loose socket (make sure you kill power at the circuit breaker).

Maybe unsafe, but I think it shouldn't be hard to fix one too.
 

Humpy

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2011
4,463
596
126
You can reach in there with a little pick or a fork and jimmy it around some. The weld spatter created in between the contacts adds just enough friction to make it good and tight again.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
You can reach in there with a little pick or a fork and jimmy it around some. The weld spatter created in between the contacts adds just enough friction to make it good and tight again.

Only in homes featuring Federal Pacific Stablok breakers. Bonus points for Al wiring.

If you have a fuse box, find an older (copper) penny, instant 50amp+ branch upgrade. Enough to run handful of space heaters on each branch. Get close to the plaster wall, you will feel the added radiant heat from the wires within!
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,954
6,315
136
Only in homes featuring Federal Pacific Stablok breakers. Bonus points for Al wiring.

If you have a fuse box, find an older (copper) penny, instant 50amp+ branch upgrade. Enough to run handful of space heaters on each branch. Get close to the plaster wall, you will feel the added radiant heat from the wires within!
and I was initially excited about a Ruby sighting. Now I'm just scared.




'sup, Madame?
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
News flash:

Things wear out.

Common household outlets cost 50 cents (or less) apiece. They do make higher grades of outlets that will last longer if you want them, but they do cost more.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
How loose we talking about?

Only truly loose outlet I've ever experienced was on a 20 year old surge protector... I think it fried two cable boxes but not the TV connected to it.
 

John Connor

Lifer
Nov 30, 2012
22,757
617
121
Would be interesting if they standardized twist-lock plugs. But I have to wonder. Was the current outlet designed so that one could remove a plug-in right away or something?

I often wonder with electronics and everything consuming smaller and smaller amounts of electricity, if we'll see a lower voltage standard? I mean all your shit has a step down transformer. That's all wasted heat. One day, maybe 500+ years from now, electronics will consume what little energy density is in a simple RF wave. Like a cell signal.
 
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westom

Senior member
Apr 25, 2009
517
0
71
Why can't plugs be designed properly?
They always seem to be too loose or don't make proper contact.

Plugs are designed right. But many consumers only select on price - not on product information.

A plug is designed for so many 'makes and breaks'. A standard bedroom plug maintains one 'make and break' maybe once every so many years. A kitchen plug has many more. So that plug is more expensive - rated for many times more 'breaks and makes'.

Many recommend hospital plugs on myths such as 'cleaner power'. A hospital plug must suffer many 'breaks and makes' every day. Remain good for 10 years. But again, it also costs more money.

Too many consumers only see price; do not demand numbers - especially specifications. The only reason for an unreliable plug is a human who did not select based upon product facts. He probably acted like a business school graduate - only looked at price. And so we have defined a source of most failures - not just plugs.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Would be interesting if they standardized twist-lock plugs. But I have to wonder. Was the current outlet designed so that one could remove a plug-in right away or something?

I often wonder with electronics and everything consuming smaller and smaller amounts of electricity, if we'll see a lower voltage standard? I mean all your shit has a step down transformer. That's all wasted heat. One day, maybe 500+ years from now, electronics will consume what little energy density is in a simple RF wave. Like a cell signal.

Do you know how many broken cords we'd have if everything was twist lock? How many broken phone charger cables do we see and those just go straight in lol

You can have loose twist locks too. All that does is physically latch the plug in the socket to keep it from getting pulled out inadvertently, but the actual contacts can become loose.

I doubt we'll see a lower voltage standard if for no other reason than retrofitting the entirety of the power grid would be super cost prohibitive, not to mention every building's wiring, and making all existing appliances unusable. You'd run into issues with the higher power draw items too if you did that, requiring higher amperage circuits for things like your fridge or even your vacuum cleaner to compensate for the lower voltage.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Would be interesting if they standardized twist-lock plugs. But I have to wonder. Was the current outlet designed so that one could remove a plug-in right away or something?

I often wonder with electronics and everything consuming smaller and smaller amounts of electricity, if we'll see a lower voltage standard? I mean all your shit has a step down transformer. That's all wasted heat. One day, maybe 500+ years from now, electronics will consume what little energy density is in a simple RF wave. Like a cell signal.
A lot of devices have switch-mode power supplies which are generally more efficient.
And a lower voltage standard will require higher current draw, which will require bigger conductors, so invest now in copper futures.
You also experience more power loss when current draw is increased across a conductor, so the attempt to save some power with a lower voltage might actually increase power waste. There's a reason that power companies distribute electricity across long distances at five-digit voltages.
More volts means less amps which means lower losses and the ability to use smaller conductors.


500+ years from now, I'd hope that room-temperature superconductors are common, quantum computers are everywhere, and battery tech has developed a little bit beyond the best li-ion cells we can make today.
And yet we'll still have tricorders that only last 6-8 hours per charge. Sure, they'll operate on 10-megawatt-hour batteries, and perform 20,000 quadrillion operations per second, but it'll still be designed so that you'll always want to carry around an Energizer power pack, which will be a handheld fusion generator able to provide up to 10 tricorder charges per refueling.
 
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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,828
184
106
500+ years from now, I'd hope that room-temperature superconductors are common, quantum computers are everywhere, and battery tech has developed a little bit beyond the best li-ion cells we can make today.

Maybe 500 years from now, we'll have locally generated power. Local as in one reactor/generator per block or even per house. They'll be installed and dealt with like a furnace or air conditioner unit.

And if Fallout is any indication, they'll set off mini-nuke explosions when shot a few times...
 

stormkroe

Golden Member
May 28, 2011
1,550
97
91
I've never had a new leviton receptacle be loose unless it was a sacrificial jobsite plug for all the trades to use and abuse. Coopers not so much...
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
Let me give you guys the breakdown:

Wall plugs = new and snug

Medium UPS = snug as hell (barely plug anything in)

Small UPS = snug

Extension cords = mostly bad even the USA made ones

Large UPS = Loose


Too give you an example, when I plug the vacuum into the wall it cuts on and off, very loose. The lamp plug however is snug as hell and always works fine.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
And by that time, we will all be swallowed by a black hole. Oh well.
Well, obviously.






Maybe 500 years from now, we'll have locally generated power. Local as in one reactor/generator per block or even per house. They'll be installed and dealt with like a furnace or air conditioner unit.
Perhaps.
I'd love to see what things are like then.



And if Fallout is any indication, they'll set off mini-nuke explosions when shot a few times...
And if most games and TV shows are any indication, any nuclear power plant can explode, potentially with more force than the largest nuclear bomb.
 
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