Losers in the unions vs. Wal-Mart game: D.C.'s poor (UPDATE)

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Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
what? did you read what i quoted? its not that hard.

the quesiton was



DO you you think That target, sears etc are NOT selling the same shit?

Did you read what I said? It's not hard either. Those stores sell that cheap Chinese crap now. It did not exist before Walmart extorted suppliers. Before then stores bought the slightly more expensive stuff made in America. We all paid slightly higher prices because that was our only option. Walmart was big enough to make suppliers sell below cost, forcing them to move manufacturing overseas to stay in business.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
You're argument is with the Federal Government not Walmart. Start arguing the minimum wage so I can destroy that argument to please.

Otherwise you're wasting everyone's time.

Or better yet he/she should start arguing for a stronger dollar that puts more purchasing power in their hands, etc.

In the end what he/she is citing are only symptoms of a problem for which government has itself initiated via its own policies for which businesses operating within in the economy must adapt to or else die off.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
You can apply and recieve job offers without having a home connection. As he said the library will let you use computers, Unemployment agency will let you use computers. IF you have a laptop every mcdonalds will let you.

Cell phone? not needed but nice. you can get a cheap ass line for very cheap. you do not need internet on a phone.

a car? that depends on where you live. in chicago or such no not as needed.


he is right on a lot of stuff. People think that the standard of living is much diffrent. it really ain't its just stuff we THINK we need has expanded.

same with houses. Does a family of 3-4 really need a 4-5k sq/ft house? 2-3 30k vehicles?

a 40 inch plasma in every room?

People making minimum wage don't have most of that stuff. It is a strawman anyway. It has nothing to do with real wages dropping anyway. Facts have a liberal bias.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Did you read what I said? It's not hard either. Those stores sell that cheap Chinese crap now. It did not exist before Walmart extorted suppliers. Before then stores bought the slightly more expensive stuff made in America. We all paid slightly higher prices because that was our only option. Walmart was big enough to make suppliers sell below cost, forcing them to move manufacturing overseas to stay in business.

No, Walmart didn't "extort suppliers" because once trade treaties such as NAFTA and GATT were signed by Bill Clinton (after he granted China most favored trading partner status) everyone from suppliers to retailers understood where to go and whom to buy from to save on labor costs which made products "more expensive". Then again if you follow the value of a dollar compared to 43 years ago you'd realize that the trend of lost purchasing power through inflation has been a long but steady downhill road.

http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

Hence you have to work harder to gain more "cheap" stuff.

$1.00 in 1970 had the same buying power as $6.09 in 2013.
Annual inflation over this period was 4.29%.
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
Did you read what I said? It's not hard either. Those stores sell that cheap Chinese crap now. It did not exist before Walmart extorted suppliers. Before then stores bought the slightly more expensive stuff made in America. We all paid slightly higher prices because that was our only option. Walmart was big enough to make suppliers sell below cost, forcing them to move manufacturing overseas to stay in business.

They only did that because Americans demanded cheapest price over everything. Wal-Mart has had MANY made in America programs and they are about to launch another $50 billion one:

http://business.time.com/2013/04/12/how-walmart-plans-to-bring-back-made-in-america/

They keep failing because Americans won't vote for other Americans with the vote that matters most - their dollars.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,346
15,162
136
They only did that because Americans demanded cheapest price over everything. Wal-Mart has had MANY made in America programs and they are about to launch another $50 billion one:

http://business.time.com/2013/04/12/how-walmart-plans-to-bring-back-made-in-america/

They keep failing because Americans won't vote for other Americans with the vote that matters most - their dollars.


I agree, Americans are poor consumers when it comes to voting with their wallets.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Is it the norm though? Are there no societies that are different? It's sad if true.

If it makes you feel any better, most people don't vote (politically) in their own self-interest. In that way, Americans are selfless.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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People making minimum wage don't have most of that stuff. It is a strawman anyway. It has nothing to do with real wages dropping anyway. Facts have a liberal bias.



BZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrong. Go to Walmart that everyone here LOVES to bash and tell them to whip out their cell phones. Ask what computer they use. And then ask what they are having for dinner that night.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
People making minimum wage don't have most of that stuff. It is a strawman anyway. It has nothing to do with real wages dropping anyway. Facts have a liberal bias.

Is that why the biggest poverty group is single mothers?
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
Walmart doesnt bring jobs anywhere. Walmart doesnt create a single job and it never has. It takes jobs from elsewhere. Not only does it take jobs from the local supermarket and the local department store, but it takes jobs from all the little stores that share the same shopping center as the big anchor store that walmart destroyed. God some of you are complete idiots I swear, I cannot believe you would be dumb enough to think that walmart actually creates jobs. All those empty strip malls that you see with half the stores vacant. THAT is what walmart brings you stupid anally retarded vaccum headed morons.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Walmart doesnt bring jobs anywhere. Walmart doesnt create a single job and it never has. It takes jobs from elsewhere. Not only does it take jobs from the local supermarket and the local department store, but it takes jobs from all the little stores that share the same shopping center as the big anchor store that walmart destroyed. God some of you are complete idiots I swear, I cannot believe you would be dumb enough to think that walmart actually creates jobs. All those empty strip malls that you see with half the stores vacant. THAT is what walmart brings you stupid anally retarded vaccum headed morons.

/facepalm
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
Walmart doesnt bring jobs anywhere. Walmart doesnt create a single job and it never has. It takes jobs from elsewhere. Not only does it take jobs from the local supermarket and the local department store, but it takes jobs from all the little stores that share the same shopping center as the big anchor store that walmart destroyed. God some of you are complete idiots I swear, I cannot believe you would be dumb enough to think that walmart actually creates jobs. All those empty strip malls that you see with half the stores vacant. THAT is what walmart brings you stupid anally retarded vaccum headed morons.

so if they're building in already vacant lots, which obviously aren't employing anyone, whose jobs are they taking?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
God forbid they fight a corporation to bring a liveable wage to the area. Also that $8 job just means that the govt subsidizes the rest of the salary.

Does your logic apply to all of the small mom and pops that employ at the minimum wage?
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Does your logic apply to all of the small mom and pops that employ at the minimum wage?

Ahh but then you can drag in the argument of looking at local profits.

Since the odds are against one of the Waltons living in your neighborhood, where does the spent money go?

The town gets back about 15 high paying jobs and 240-280 minimum wage to $10 jobs.

It destroys x mom and pops.

How many mom and pops were doing well for themsevles before Walmart? Is it a net gain, net loss, or push for the community when a Walmart moves in, on average?
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
How many mom and pops were doing well for themsevles before Walmart? Is it a net gain, net loss, or push for the community when a Walmart moves in, on average?

How many "moms and pops" were selling the vast range of products Wal*Mart was? How many people previously had to purchase Wal*Mart stocked items from a businesses outside of the community?

And Wal*Mart purchases items at a lesser cost than "moms and pops" ever could, again reducing the money that is flowing out of the community in respect to compensating the producers.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Walmart uses supplier (large volumes) and consumer (cheap as possible) greed to their advantage, the solution is not attacking Walmart but conquering ones own greed.

The man that said no to Walmart.

search for "the man who said no to walmart" can't link for some reason.
Wier is much like Snapper's customers. "When we do surveys of our customers, they like to cut their grass. And they want a good piece of equipment to do it. We're designed to give you the best quality of cut. We have full rollers on the riding mowers, to give that nice striped look on your grass, like on the baseball fields. It makes you feel proud of the home you own. Proud of your lawn. The neighbors walk by, they say, 'Look how good the yard looks.' "
"We're not obsessed with volume," says Wier. "We're obsessed with having differentiated, high-end, quality products."​
Wier doesn't really think that a $99 lawn mower from Wal-Mart and Snapper's lawn mowers are the same product any more than a cup of 50-cent vending-machine coffee is the same as a Starbucks nonfat venti latte. "We're not obsessed with volume," says Wier. "We're obsessed with having differentiated, high-end, quality products." Wier wants them sold--he thinks they must be sold--at a store where the staff is eager to explain the virtues of various models, where they understand the equipment, can teach customers how to use a mower, can service it when something goes wrong. Wier wants customers who want that kind of help--customers who are unlikely to be happy buying a lawn mower at Wal-Mart, and who might connect a bum experience doing so not with Wal-Mart but with Snapper.


And so in October 2002, with a colleague, Wier kept an appointment with a merchandise vice president for Wal-Mart's outdoor-product category.
"The whole visit to Wal-Mart headquarters is a great experience," says Wier. It really is a pilgrimage to the center of the retail universe. "It's so crowded, you have to drive around, waiting for a parking space, you have to follow someone who is leaving, walking back to their car, and get their spot. Then you go inside this building, you register for your appointment, they give you a badge, and then you wait in the pews with the rest of the peddlers, the guy with the bras draped over his shoulder."


Normally, meetings between Wal-Mart buyers and people from supplier companies take place in the legendary meeting rooms just off the vendor lobby. These cubicles are simple to the point of barren--a table and four chairs, and 30 minutes to make your case. "It's a little like going to see the principal, really," says Wier.


In this case, Wier says, both he and the Wal-Mart managers "had a feeling that this would be an important meeting." So Wier and his colleague were scheduled to visit the vice president in his office. Sitting on lawn chairs.
"The meeting started with the vice president of the category saying how it was clear that Lowe's was going to build their outdoor power-equipment business with the Cub Cadet brand, and how Home Depot was going to build theirs with John Deere," says Wier. "Wal-Mart wanted to build their outdoor power-equipment business around the Snapper brand. Were we prepared to go large?"


Talk about coming to the table with different agendas. Wier was in Bentonville to pull his mowers from Wal-Mart's stores. The vice president was offering a greater temptation: Let's join hands and go head-to-head against the home-improvement superstores.
Which is when Wier said no.


"As I look at the three years Snapper has been with you," he told the vice president, "every year the price has come down. Every year the content of the product has gone up. We're at a position where, first, it's still priced where it doesn't meet the needs of your clientele. For Wal-Mart, it's still too high-priced. I think you'd agree with that.


"Now, at the price I'm selling to you today, I'm not making any money on it. And if we do what you want next year, I'll lose money. I could do that and not go out of business. But we have this independent-dealer channel. And 80% of our business is over here with them. And I can't put them at a competitive disadvantage. If I do that, I lose everything. So this just isn't a compatible fit."


The Wal-Mart vice president responded with strategy and argument. Snapper is the sort of high-quality nameplate, like Levi Strauss, that Wal-Mart hopes can ultimately make it more Target-like. He suggested that Snapper find a lower-cost contract manufacturer. He suggested producing a separate, lesser-quality line with the Snapper nameplate just for Wal-Mart. Just like Levi did.


"My response was, we would take a look at that," says Wier. "The reason I gave that response was, it was a legitimate question. In my own mind, I knew where I'd go with that"--no thanks--"but at that kind of meeting you at least have to be willing to say, I'll investigate." And that was it. "The tone at the end was, We're not going forward as a supplier."


No lightning bolt struck. Except that Snapper instantly gave up almost 20% of its business. "But when we told the dealers that they would no longer find Snapper in Wal-Mart, they were very pleased with that decision. And I think we got most of that business back by winning the hearts of the dealers."
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Walmart uses supplier (large volumes) and consumer (cheap as possible) greed to their advantage, the solution is not attacking Walmart but conquering ones own greed.

The man that said no to Walmart.

search for "the man who said no to walmart" can't link for some reason.

Conquering ones own greed might involve things like embargoes with enemy nations.

We can't have that. It is too profitable.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126
This is a ridiculous argument.

Retailers neither make nor destroy wealth, they more resemble a means of delivery.

Creating wealth is done by producing a good or service that has value. While retail is counted as a service, it does not produce in the way other service industries do. For example, a hospital with specific expertise on staff - drawing patients from around the world, their money to employ doctors, rent hotels and cars, etc. flowing into the community. The only time retail makes a community Is if its special to the point of being a tourist attraction. Wal-mart doesn't qualify there.
 
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