LOST 3x22 and LOST 3x23

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: 49erinnc
Completely ripped this info from another site but I thought it was very interesting:

The island on Lost is a panoptic prison

ben is in the coffin

ben= Jeremy BENtham

This was cleverly referenced in tonights episode,
the name on the newspaper clipping that jack was crying over was JEREMY BENTHAM who originated the idea of a panoptic prison...a panopticon
bentham also speaks alot on the theme of "free will" and crime...

The island on Lost is a panoptic prison
note how everything is circular....the hatches, the underwater hatch)

"The Panopticon ("all-seeing") functioned as a round-the-clock surveillance machine. Its design ensured that no prisoner could ever see the 'inspector' who conducted surveillance from the privileged central location within the radial configuration. The prisoner could never know when he was being surveilled -- mental uncertainty that in itself would prove to be a crucial instrument of discipline."

Note how kate was a free woman in the flash forward tonight
clever anagram....the name of the funeral home was "Hoff's/Drawler"
unscrambled "flash forward") yet when she landed on the island she had been
"caught" and aprehended by edward mars....


....and every one of the 'survivors' had at some point commited some crime.

"Panopticon
Jeremy Bentham, a nineteenth century philosopher, devised an ideal penal structure for maximising the visibility of prisoners to their jailers: the pan-opticon (all-seeing device). The jailer at the centre can see all the inmates, but they cannot see each other, nor the jailer. Because each prisoner cannot tell at any moment whether he/she is being observed, they will behave at all times as if they were!

This parallels the Catholic idea of the "eye of God" constantly observing our sins. "

Some interesting photos that go along with all of this:

Pic of a panopticon

Another pic of a panopticon

What Locke saw while in the hatch

Food for thought....

absolutely brilliant

 

[five40]

Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
hoffs/drawler has an "e".

flash forward has no "e".

the new abc.com player lets you playback in full screen which is nice. the old one only had normal and big sizes, in which big was only slightly larger.

Maybe the writers can't spell? Flash Forwerd (up).

 

[jdini76]

Originally posted by: five40

Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
hoffs/drawler has an "e".

flash forward has no "e".

the new abc.com player lets you playback in full screen which is nice. the old one only had normal and big sizes, in which big was only slightly larger.

Maybe the writers can't spell? Flash Forwerd (up).

no, Blackdog spelled Drawlar wrong.

 

[13Gigatons]

Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis

Originally posted by: 49erinnc
Completely ripped this info from another site but I thought it was very interesting:

The island on Lost is a panoptic prison

ben is in the coffin

ben= Jeremy BENtham

This was cleverly referenced in tonights episode,
the name on the newspaper clipping that jack was crying over was JEREMY BENTHAM who originated the idea of a panoptic prison...a panopticon
bentham also speaks alot on the theme of "free will" and crime...

The island on Lost is a panoptic prison
note how everything is circular....the hatches, the underwater hatch)

"The Panopticon ("all-seeing") functioned as a round-the-clock surveillance machine. Its design ensured that no prisoner could ever see the 'inspector' who conducted surveillance from the privileged central location within the radial configuration. The prisoner could never know when he was being surveilled -- mental uncertainty that in itself would prove to be a crucial instrument of discipline."

Note how kate was a free woman in the flash forward tonight
clever anagram....the name of the funeral home was "Hoff's/Drawler"
unscrambled "flash forward") yet when she landed on the island she had been
"caught" and aprehended by edward mars....


....and every one of the 'survivors' had at some point commited some crime.

"Panopticon
Jeremy Bentham, a nineteenth century philosopher, devised an ideal penal structure for maximising the visibility of prisoners to their jailers: the pan-opticon (all-seeing device). The jailer at the centre can see all the inmates, but they cannot see each other, nor the jailer. Because each prisoner cannot tell at any moment whether he/she is being observed, they will behave at all times as if they were!

This parallels the Catholic idea of the "eye of God" constantly observing our sins. "

Some interesting photos that go along with all of this:

Pic of a panopticon

Another pic of a panopticon

What Locke saw while in the hatch

Food for thought....

absolutely brilliant

Why would Jack want to go back then if he escaped a prison ?

 

[JEDI]

the valet guy from Las Vegas is now the chief of surgery in lost?

how many Las Vegas cast members will be coming over?

oh i get it.. city of sin

 

[blackdogdeek]

Originally posted by: jdini76

Originally posted by: five40

Originally posted by: blackdogdeek
hoffs/drawler has an "e".

flash forward has no "e".

the new abc.com player lets you playback in full screen which is nice. the old one only had normal and big sizes, in which big was only slightly larger.

Maybe the writers can't spell? Flash Forwerd (up).

no, Blackdog spelled Drawlar wrong.

doh. i took it from the other posts that spelled it that way. oh well.

 

[blackdogdeek]

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons

Why would Jack want to go back then if he escaped a prison ?

perhaps the observation area is the island and the real prison is the rest of the world. remember how they could see juliet's sister on the playground?

 

[bonkers325]

its going to be something lame, like "the island made me dream this!"

 

[bluestrobe]

Anyone get this error trying to "update" the abc media player? This player has worked in the past on IE7. It's always locked up FF1.5 for me. I'v just about disbaled the security on IE (dangerous, I know) to see that would fix it and it didn't. I'm at a loss and would really like to see this episode. It's doing this on all the computers in my house. Any ideas?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Anyone get this error trying to "update" the abc media player? This player has worked in the past on IE7. It's always locked up FF1.5 for me. I'v just about disbaled the security on IE (dangerous, I know) to see that would fix it and it didn't. I'm at a loss and would really like to see this episode. It's doing this on all the computers in my house. Any ideas?

Maybe you need Administrative privileges to install the player on each computer? Also check for latest updates (Windows & Firefox/IE).

 

[Kev]

I think the island is just some kind of supernatural/phenomena type thing and the others are just trying to protect it from outside corruptors who would exploit it, such as dharma. Explains why Jacob hates technology so much.

 

[bluestrobe]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Anyone get this error trying to "update" the abc media player? This player has worked in the past on IE7. It's always locked up FF1.5 for me. I'v just about disbaled the security on IE (dangerous, I know) to see that would fix it and it didn't. I'm at a loss and would really like to see this episode. It's doing this on all the computers in my house. Any ideas?

Maybe you need Administrative privileges to install the player on each computer? Also check for latest updates (Windows & Firefox/IE).

I forgot to add this is all being done under the administrative account on each computer. They are all fully updated.

 

[flashbacck]

It annoys me that it seems like they've completely dropped the "numbers" mystery. I don't remember any reference to them this season.

 

[sash1]

Originally posted by: jdini76

Originally posted by: sash1
so anyway, the black head doctor dude had said the woman hit the median on the bridge because she saw Jack and that's how the accident happened. well i'm re-watching the episode now, and there is NO median on the bridge.

I think the median they are talking about is the side median not the center median.

Hey when you get to the end, post the name of the guy who answered the phone.

Mikowski

 

[JEDI]

wtfbbq was that ending?!

who's name was on the oblitory that jack ripped from the paper?

did jack's car cause the woman's accident? (ie: she slammed into his parked car?)

yeah, the numbers mystery died off

so it looks like new villians next season.

i'm thinking the person in the coffin is someone we havent seen yet. (the funeral was in a black neighborhood.) oh wait.. Michael?!

 

[Starbuck1975]

My predictions:

The "Hostiles", or original inhabitants of the Island, are a group or series of people who, over the centuries, have managed to become stranded on the Island...i.e. the Black Rock and discoveries of equipment and items from various time periods on the Island sugges this.

The Island has special metaphysical properties which cure disease, perhaps provide immortality, etc. Jacob is perhaps the oldest inhabitant of the Island, and has somehow merged with the Island, and is now perhaps one with the Island.

The Dharma Initiative/Hanso Foundation somehow finds out about the Island, and wishes to harness the powers of the Island...hence the experiment stations...I believe that Dharma at one point conducted experiments on the inhabitants of the Island, and at some point they revolt, culminating with the purge enabled by Ben.

Now why Ben is special? Because he is an outsider who is able to communicate with Jacob...perhaps the other "Hostiles" have been unable to communicate with Jacob, and because Ben can, he assumes a sort of prophetic leadership role.

The Hostiles maintain the stations...Mikhael wearing a Dharma uniform, etc...because they don't want the Dharma initiative to learn that they have revolted and taken over the Island...that is why the Dharma food drops keep coming...that is also why the Hostiles are able to seemingly come and go from the Island as they please, or at least Ben's inner circle can.

Now because Ben is a friggin nutjob, he has chosen to abuse his power...somehow managing to imprison Jacob, and control the Hostiles to do his bidding.

When the Losties show up, it threatens Ben's primacy and also what he is apparently hiding...I suspect the role of the numbers, fate and destiny will play into how all of these characters, with seemingly connected lives, end up on the Island...the Island may play into some sort of space/time continuum power where it can control fate and destiny...not a concrete theory, but the only thing I can think of for now.

When Locke manages to blow up just about every station on the Island, he also allows the Dharma Initiative to catch wind of the fact that something isn't quite right. The freighter, and Naomi, are representatives of the Dharma Initiative.

Now why does Naomi have a picture of Desmond? Because somehow, Penny's father, and I suspect Sun's father and Jack's father, are either members of the Hanso Foundation or Dharma. Could explain why so many of the Losties have seemingly powerful or influencial people as parents or acquaintances. Naomi gets the picture from Penny's father, not Penny.

Penny is on the other end of the Looking Glass station, sending a transmission, because she somehow finds out from her father where Desmond is...and is trying to contact him.

I suspect next season, we will see the Dharma Initiative show up in force. I suspect that Locke, who is now able to communicate with Jacob, and was perhaps saved by Jacob, will ascend as the leader of those who wish to protect the Island. Those on the Island will splinter between those who are loyal to Locke/Hostiles/Others/want to remain on the Island and those who want to get off the Island.

I think Jack and a few of the Losties will sell out the Locke camp big time to escape. This is why Jack is such a mess in the flash forward sequence...maybe he does it out of love or pride or whatever, but I have a feeling we are going to see a huge body count next season.

I believe the season finale was a flash forward...Jack had visions of his father in the first season on the Island...I suspect that Jack's father is not dead, or that he will come back to life through the powers of the Island...Mikhael has seemingly died twice now, and has come back from the grave...Walt is now seemingly running about the Island...etc.

Why Jack says his father is upstairs...this was to show that either Jack has truly gone insane, or because his father IS alive, and it will play into his escape from the Island. If my theory is correct, and Jack's father is a member of Dharma/Hanso, then maybe Jack's father allows Jack and a select few to leave the Island...the rest are held there against their will...hence Jack's remorse, and Kate's attitude towards Jack in the future.

As for the person in the coffin...screen shots show that the person in question was from New York, and their name starts with a "J". Could be anyone at this point...Ben is the obvious choice, with Sawyer, Michael or Walt as other guesses.

 

[Fern]

Definately flashforwards.

However, I believe that they were flash forwards of a possible future. One in which Jack & Kate etc follow through with the rescue as they currently intend.

Locke knows it is not the destiny/possible future Jack should have, or want.

The island is some kind of trans-dimentional hub (or unaffected "safe station" outside of any of the possible universes/realities in the multiverse) type-place outside of the (quantum physics) multiverse possibilities. Leaving the island puts you (back) into one the possible realities that exists in the multiverse. The intense magnetic field is what sheilds the island and/or causes this tear in the multiverse/ or "reality".

(In the flash forward, Jack's father was alive. To many references to him passed without comment. Thus a possible reality other than what Jack experienced before crashing on the island).

Neither Jonh Locke or Ben will leave, it is not them in the coffin.

Richard and the hostiles are other survivors, some from the pirate ship. They don't age.

The island was created by 4 toed alien humaniods

The question(s) to eventually resolve is/are: (1) Should you leave?, if so, (2) how to accomplish to arrive in a reality of your liking?

Pass the b0ng

Fern

 

[Arkitech]

Did they show scenes from the next season at the end of last night's episode? My DVR stopped recording before they came on.

 

[Agentbolt]

God, what a horrible, horrible episode.

A) Seriously, what the hell happened to all the Losties guns? They're down to 2 rifles and a pistol? They had a big enough arsenal to arm Uganda for awhile and then suddenly, poof, disappeared. What the hell?

B) Charlie's death was beyond idiotic. It would've taken hours upon hours for the flow of water from that busted windows to flood the station. Why did he close the door?

C) Cool, what an original idea, kill patchy then have him inexplicably come back to life! Never saw that one coming!

I can stand the lack of answers, because I still believe the producers when they say the answers are coming. But the complete lack of logic about such SIMPLE stuff, it's just inexcusable. Seriously, please, someone refute any of those complaints I just made. I'm this close to simply not tuning in next season, and I want to make sure I didn't simply miss something that makes all those complaints moot.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
B) Charlie's death was beyond idiotic. It would've taken hours upon hours for the flow of water from that busted windows to flood the station. Why did he close the door?

Seriously, please, someone refute any of those complaints I just made.

Charlie thought that staying alive would put Claire and Aaron in jeopardy. He thought he had to die in order for them to be rescued.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
B) Charlie's death was beyond idiotic. It would've taken hours upon hours for the flow of water from that busted windows to flood the station. Why did he close the door?

Seriously, please, someone refute any of those complaints I just made.

Charlie thought that staying alive would put Claire and Aaron in jeopardy. He thought he had to die in order for them to be rescued.

That and he had no idea how much damage the blast would do. For all he knew, the blast would have torn the entire capsule open.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: 13Gigatons
Agreed. It's a gimmick show, once the gimmick is revealed the show comes to a screeching halt, so you need to milk it as long as you can.

Things that don't make sense:

1. Polar Bears on the island
2. The black smoke
3. Dinosaur close to the Beach or was that the Black Smoke (anybody remember season one?)
4. The Hatch
5. The Others don't seem to age.
6. Jacob (Is he a ghost or what)
7. How did Locke's father get to the island ?
8. The numbers (no mention of them recently)
9. The Giant foot
10. The old ship which still has working dynamite on it.

The list could go on and on and that's the annoying part of the show is that they have created so many mysteries they will never be able to answer them all during the last season.

1. They were being researched on the island. That's why they had cages with fish biscuit treats.
2. ?
3. ?
4. What doesn't make sense about the hatch?
5. The island appears to heal those it deems fit (like Locke). Aging is basically disease/injury of the cells. It's just keeping this from happening.
6. ? We were just introduced to him. Give them more than 2 weeks to unfold the mystery.
7. Why does it matter? They probably abducted him from somewhere. We've seen in the past that they were in the "real world" recruiting people for the island. They probably still have people out there.
8. This isn't a key part of the story. They are just a neat way to tie things together.
9. ?
10. This was an old slave ship, The Blackrock, that crashed on the island.

3) Dinosaurs? They never were part of the show.
5) josh ... your response is 100% pure speculation.
7) josh ... your response is 100% speculation
8) The online game resolved the numbers and as far as the show goes ... I think Josh is 100% correct. PS ... the numbers are part of some equation that determines when hte end of the world will occur.
10) The better question is, how did Black Rock end up where it is right now. It's as though it was dropped there.

 

[Cattlegod]

tectonic plates

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: CalvinHobbs

Originally posted by: JEDI
holy.. 40min worth of commercials in the 2hr finale?!

why people say it's a 2hours finale when it's only 80mins?!!! i.e 1hr 20mins only

What is happening to the world!!!!!

OK, every show on TV that is an hour long is 42 minutes of show and 18 minutes of commercials. Lost has more breaks of shorter duration. Get over it. this is 100% normal. A 2 hour finale SHOULD HAVE 40 minutes of commercials.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
God, what a horrible, horrible episode.

A) Seriously, what the hell happened to all the Losties guns? They're down to 2 rifles and a pistol? They had a big enough arsenal to arm Uganda for awhile and then suddenly, poof, disappeared. What the hell?

B) Charlie's death was beyond idiotic. It would've taken hours upon hours for the flow of water from that busted windows to flood the station. Why did he close the door?

C) Cool, what an original idea, kill patchy then have him inexplicably come back to life! Never saw that one coming!

I can stand the lack of answers, because I still believe the producers when they say the answers are coming. But the complete lack of logic about such SIMPLE stuff, it's just inexcusable. Seriously, please, someone refute any of those complaints I just made. I'm this close to simply not tuning in next season, and I want to make sure I didn't simply miss something that makes all those complaints moot.

Charlie believed that to save Claire, he had to die. The show spent several episodes on this matter and I don't know why you have issues with it. There .. refuted.