"Lost" Series Finale "The End" Sunday 9-11:30pm NO SPOILERS UNTIL AIRED

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Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
Well, think about it. In real life, what does anything that we do matter? We are all going to die in the end. Even if your actions while alive had an impact, the heat death of the universe will make sure any of that means nothing in the end either.

But LOST was a world where those things did matter. That light that Jack saved was presumably the same light that Christian walked into in the end. In the lost fantasy, Jack appears not only to have saved the world, but the afterlife and in a sense, all of existence. In that fantasy, his actions DID matter.

He did this without truely understanding why, something we all have to do in the throught our lives. My favorite scene in the entire series was near the very end, and it's significance was only truely apparent after you knew they were in the afterlife. The scene where Kate approaches a confused Jack at the end of the concert with a smile and a twinkle in her eye. Jack is standing there and just loses it and proclaims "what is happening to me???", but Kate already knew what he didn't. That he saved us all, that it DID matter. It was a look of gratitude, of love, of the way a sort of condescending way a parent looks at a child that doesn't understand what she does but will eventually. With the suspension of disbelief required to enjoy any work of fantasy, it was an absolutely moving and beautiful moment.

It was moments like that which made the series so magnificent. If all of the questions were answered, if the "light" was just an alien artifact, that would have been an empty moment. If you were just focusing on the "quality" of the writing, you might have completely missed the emotional impact.

Right. And what series of events could be written that fit your description of it doesn't matter in the end? ANY.

You obviously are just trying to justify the ending because you liked the series (as did I), but I'm not going to give credit where it isn't due. While the ending was EXCELLENT up until you knew they were all dead, them being dead took away the quality of what we were shown. The love/friend connections were effectively eliminated.

You can try and say I'm focused on "technical" details in an attempt to just say "you don't get it", but that isn't the case here.
 

CoinOperatedBoy

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,809
0
76
My favorite scene in the entire series was near the very end, and it's significance was only truely apparent after you knew they were in the afterlife. The scene where Kate approaches a confused Jack at the end of the concert with a smile and a twinkle in her eye. Jack is standing there and just loses it and proclaims "what is happening to me???", but Kate already knew what he didn't. That he saved us all, that it DID matter. It was a look of gratitude, of love, of the way a sort of condescending way a parent looks at a child that doesn't understand what she does but will eventually. With the suspension of disbelief required to enjoy any work of fantasy, it was an absolutely moving and beautiful moment.

It was moments like that which made the series so magnificent. If all of the questions were answered, if the "light" was just an alien artifact, that would have been an empty moment. If you were just focusing on the "quality" of the writing, you might have completely missed the emotional impact.

For what it's worth, I also really liked that scene. The End was jam-packed with emotional moments and I didn't regard them with stony aloofness the way you seem to think detractors must. I came to dislike the context of these moments because I personally hated the afterlife twist and the whole spiritual/magical setting from which this was launched. But I was still invested in these characters, and the actors frequently did a great job making their relationships memorable, which was not lost on me.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
I get what you're saying, but we're apparently talking about different aspects of art. That are objective measures, but quantifying such measures is creating data that lies outside of the art. You can take a survey about whether or not a van gogh is a masterpiece, or survey artists on their impression of the technical qualities of that van gogh, but that only informs you of the critics' opinion. It doesn't change the work itself. You can point to the survey as justification that van gogh is a finer artist, but that only tells you that more people agree on that. That opinion can an will change depending on who you ask and when you ask it.

You can certainly say that a muscian performed something incorrectly if he did not play the proper notes. But that has nothing to do with why the composer chose those notes for him to play. That choice, of the composer, not the performer is the subjective part, and an objective measurement of the quality of those choices is impossible.

I'm not saying that art is devoid of technical ability that can be measured in some way, but the end result ALWAYS relies on the perception and interpretation of the consumer of that art.

I personally think it's crazy to have a conversation on the merits of any of van goghs brushstrokes. I certainly think one could have that conversation, but I wouldn't want to have it.

In the context of lost, I don't envy the writers position. I can't imagine having to write a 2000 page book, chapter by chapter. Being unable to revise anything previously shown, and having to rely on other actors, cinematographers and composers to bring that vision to life. I can't imagine what it would be like writing a book where your pen refused to write certain things because a real life actor didn't want to take part.

Given the constraints they were under, I thought the writers did a fantastic job.
 
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pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
46
91
do you not see how you can think the other way too?

that with these fantasy ideas being introduce the scientific ideas would have a fantasy explanation?

didn't the writers say at one point that everything could be explained scientifically?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
didn't the writers say at one point that everything could be explained scientifically?

I hear that repeated a lot, but I've never seen the original quote making that claim. It seems facially suspect since the writers/producers knew from the start that the plot included fantastical elements.
 

CoinOperatedBoy

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,809
0
76
You can certainly say that a muscian performed something incorrectly if he did not play the proper notes. But that has nothing to do with why the composer chose those notes for him to play. That choice, of the artist, not the composer is the subjective part, and an objective measurement of the quality of those choices is impossible.

I'm not saying that art is devoid of technical ability that can be measured in some way, but the end result ALWAYS relies on the perception and interpretation of the consumer of that art.

I personally think it's crazy to have a conversation on the merits of any of van goghs brushstrokes. I certainly think one could have that conversation, but I wouldn't want to have it.

Music is a good analogy because a composer writes the notes and a musician plays them; a TV show has writers and actors to perform these functions. A technical failure on either the part of the creator or the performer affects the end result. Notes and words are the building blocks from which entire works are formed, and, as you've agreed, we can objectively assess some things about their arrangement and their expression in the performance. On a trivial enough scale, a technical flaw may not noticeably alter the consumer's overall experience, but amass enough of them and the likelihood increases. Again, individuals will naturally have varying tolerances and tastes, so noticing a flaw is not an immediate condemnation of the work and may not ultimately decide how much pleasure anyone derives from it. I'll grant that sometimes flaws are even part of the point!

And you're right, conversations about the "brushstrokes" of LOST may be as boring and pointless as discussing those of Rembrandt when we are not ourselves painters. Maybe I'm guilty of delving too deeply into minutiae, but I've done so trying to describe the foundations of overarching narrative landscapes that suffered in the end, and how those things altered my opinion of the show.

I completely understand that some people just plain don't care that Walt never came back, for example. As I've expressed, I felt that he was given a lot of attention and little resolution, but the people who disagree with me took something different from LOST and their memory of it. They feel that his presence would not really have changed the grander themes of the show or the ultimate outcome. I get it. Objectively speaking, we all learned some things about Walt, they were not explained, and then he left. Doubtlessly, this represents a plot hole. I just obviously found it to be a more critical omission than many others, which is the subjective part of this equation and that which we apparently can't reconcile. And I'm okay with that, even if I feel the early seasons support my opinion.

What I'm not okay with is people turning it around and acting like either the flaw doesn't exist or that I'm a jackass for allowing it to change my opinion of the show in any way. LOST is not above criticism, no matter how much you liked it -- but at the same time I'm not trying to make you dislike it.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
76
Then it seems that we at least understand where each others opinion is coming from. I've got no problem with anything that you've just said.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
91
I hear that repeated a lot, but I've never seen the original quote making that claim. It seems facially suspect since the writers/producers knew from the start that the plot included fantastical elements.

Links to the original article are all dead, but this is the quote:

We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact. I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel.

That was obviously said before they started the time travel.

I'm not sure what rational explanation there could have been for the fact that the island healed people, but that was just another one of those seemingly important plot lines that didn't actually matter.

Edit: Obviously he says "yet" which means they didn't rule out the possibility that things like that might happen in the future.

I wish I had the context though, because saying that they're "trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact" could mean that that was something they wanted to maintain, or it could just mean they were trying to stick to that up to that point.
 
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CoinOperatedBoy

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,809
0
76
Links to the original article are all dead, but this is the quote:

We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact. I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel.

That was obviously said before they started the time travel.

I'm not sure what rational explanation there could have been for the fact that the island healed people, but that was just another one of those seemingly important plot lines that didn't actually matter.

Ouch. I wish that were directly attributable.
 

ZXT

Member
May 15, 2009
37
0
0
Okay so on the "flash sideways", they're all dead already? And the real world was when they're still on the island. So my question is, Why did Sawyer, Kate and the two others are dead too if they were able to get off the island?
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Okay so on the "flash sideways", they're all dead already? And the real world was when they're still on the island. So my question is, Why did Sawyer, Kate and the two others are dead too if they were able to get off the island?
Christian mentioned to Jack that some died before you and others after. Hugo and Ben could have lived a thousand years on the island after Kate/Sawyer/Miles got off. They were in a limbo world (not really purgatory since they didn't have to prove anything here) until they all were united once more before moving on.
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
Can't this topic just die now?

After the bomb exploded the show officially ended. It was a great 5 years. I choose to ignore the 6th season.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,682
119
106
It's only 2 hours long tonight, anyone know if it's just a hell of a lot less commercials, or did they edit a good chunk out of the show?

really? seems like it would be tough to cut 45 minutes worth of commercials down to 15. but even harder to imagine they cut 20ish minutes of actual show
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
I knew someone would eventually respond to that collegehumor "unanswered questions" video...

Movieline Attempts to Tie Up Almost 100 of Lost's 'Loose Ends'

Why are supplies still being dropped on the island after the purge, and by who?
All right, we finally have our first really legitimate unanswered question. I wouldn’t mind knowing the answer, either.

What happened to the original timeline Libby in the mental hospital?
Unanswered question #2.

How did Ben see his dead mother?
Fair enough. Dead mothers often appear on the island — even the Man in Black saw his. Unanswered question #3!

When the gang was unstuck in time, who was that shooting at them from the outrigger?
Unanswered question #4.

How did Jack, Hurley and Kate get from that Ajira flight to the 1970s, and why didn’t Sun?
It’s fair to call this unanswered question #5, although you could speculate that the island only plucked away potential candidates, and Sun wasn’t the right Kwon. Still, kinda random for the island to be like, “Wanna hang out in the 1970s for a little bit?”

Who broke the circle of ash around Jacob’s cabin?
Unanswered question #6.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,096
0
81
really? seems like it would be tough to cut 45 minutes worth of commercials down to 15. but even harder to imagine they cut 20ish minutes of actual show

Not really - they knew a lot of people would be watching.

Show is 1 hour 45 minutes long - so maybe a commercial every 10 minutes or so? They'll probably follow the same format as the video on ABC.COM.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
Not really - they knew a lot of people would be watching.

Show is 1 hour 45 minutes long - so maybe a commercial every 10 minutes or so? They'll probably follow the same format as the video on ABC.COM.

Probably fewer commercials since they don't cost $500k for 30 seconds anymore for a rerun. Still, probably some cuts so, I'll probably skip it to avoid ruining it. That and Doctor Who is on at 9pm.

Speaking of, I just watched it "on demand" on my cable box, except it's only in standard def. No one around during the last ten minutes this time around, so I shed a tear seeing Jack limping to his death. Just wow. It was an amazing ride.
 

A Casual Fitz

Diamond Member
May 16, 2005
4,654
1,018
136
I was thinking about the earlier episodes in this season and how useless they were. The Temple was such a joke and it seems like it was their way of holding everything back until the second half.
 

Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
18,829
184
106
I was thinking about the earlier episodes in this season and how useless they were. The Temple was such a joke and it seems like it was their way of holding everything back until the second half.

Ya, nothing really came of the temple except Smokey killing 90% of the population, and getting the other 10% killed along the way.
 
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