Originally posted by: SampSon
No I havn't, have you? Are you an active member of that forum or just dropping links?Originally posted by: Apex
Have you ever asked anyone who has owned both? There are plenty of people who have poured lots of money into those cars and it doesn't match the experience of the elise. It's a completely different experience. Just take a quick jump over to EliseTalk.com and search. There's a bunch of them who have had very very seriously prep'd Miatas, MR2 Spyders, S2000's, Porsche GT3's, RX7's, and others.
I really don't care enough to dig through an auto forum.
I still fail to believe you can't put the money into another chassis and make it perform like an elise. What about all thoes kit cars out there?
Originally posted by: SampSon
No I havn't, have you? Are you an active member of that forum or just dropping links?Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: SampSon
I fully understand what this vehicle is about. I also fully understand it can be recreated for a better value.Originally posted by: Apex
Originally posted by: SampSon
So what you're saying is that you pay much more, to get much less?Originally posted by: Apex
When it comes down to it, the Elise really isn't about speed. It can get to 60 in mid 4 seconds, but there are plenty of ways to go faster with less money and more comfort.
It's built to give you the most elemental driver's experience available this side of a Caterham. Nothing is going to give you this kind of driving experience.
Let's face it. These days, good automatics will give you very close to the performance of a stick. Check out the numbers on an auto corvette compared to a manual one. The difference is the driving experience. Do people care? Very few do, that's why the vast majority of corvettes sold in the USA are auto.
For 40K (minimum sticker price on elise) you could strip down and build up to near race specs any number of cars. I'm willing to bet that 40K will also build you a car that will blow the doors of an elise.
These cars arn't selling for a reason, they arn't a good value.
I'm saying that if you're buying the Elise simply for speed, there are better choices.
If you're thinking paying more and getting less, you simply do not understand what this vehicle is about. A Mercedes E55 will easily beat a Ferrari F355 down the quarter mile, while having more room for people, a bunch of cupholders, and in much more comfort.
For $40k, there's nothing new on the market that you could do anything to that would give the balance, poise, and road feel of an Elise.
They aren't selling (actually, their entire first year was sold out way in advance, and only now can people start walking into a dealer and pay MSRP and get one) because there's only a certain number of people in America who:
1. Have the kind of cash to buy one
2. Fit
3. Are interested in a driver's car
I would guess most people here in the States would simply be better served with a Porker 987, Corvette, or SLK.
I never said new car, I said taking a car currently on the market and dumping tens of thousands into it. Take a miata or s2000 and dump 30K into them.
Have you ever asked anyone who has owned both? There are plenty of people who have poured lots of money into those cars and it doesn't match the experience of the elise. It's a completely different experience. Just take a quick jump over to EliseTalk.com and search. There's a bunch of them who have had very very seriously prep'd Miatas, MR2 Spyders, S2000's, Porsche GT3's, RX7's, and others.
I really don't care enough to dig through an auto forum.
I still fail to believe you can't put the money into another chassis and make it perform like an elise. What about all thoes kit cars out there?
Yea the attack was one I had in mind. The couple posts I browsed in that forum had some other cars listed.Originally posted by: Apex
I'm a member there, but not very active. I was on the waiting list for an Elise since 03, but dropped my name off the list a couple months ago.
Kit car wise, I assume there are some cars there are pretty close. The most natural comparison would be the $40,000 K1 Attack:
http://www.k1-styling.sk
with its tubular frame and ultra-light weight. The suspension, on the other hand, may not be up to the task, and it has a far inferior weight distribution (49% front, 51% rear).
The Caterham may be something close, along with the associated 7 replicas. I've never riden in one though, so I wouldn't be an authority on the matter. The closest vehicle I've ever been in that approximates the feel of an Elise is the Noble M400. While the Noble is much much faster and corners harder, it still doesn't have quite the same feel.
Originally posted by: geno
I love the car, I think it's overpriced though, it should be in the mid-30's IMO. I realize that the cost of such a lightweight frame and body cost a lot, but there's really NOT much to that car, hardly any options or interior, it's a Toyota sourced (can't be THAT expensive) motor, I just don't see where the $40K base price is justified...
Originally posted by: Koing
Originally posted by: geno
I love the car, I think it's overpriced though, it should be in the mid-30's IMO. I realize that the cost of such a lightweight frame and body cost a lot, but there's really NOT much to that car, hardly any options or interior, it's a Toyota sourced (can't be THAT expensive) motor, I just don't see where the $40K base price is justified...
Research in to the suspension and the 'package' you get. The research, track time and testing probably isn't cheap.
You need to pay this sort of cash to recouperate the costs.
And why the hell is it so pricey in the states?
They can be had for £10k in England 2nd hand.
Originally posted by: tec699
For a little over $40k the Lotus Elise looks like a sweet deal. IMO, a couple of the drawbacks that I've found with the car are...
1) Why only a 4 cylinder? Seems kinda puny to me. I'm not a car buff so maybe someone could clarify that for me.
2) Compared to a Nissan Z the Lotus Elise just doesn't look that comfortable.
3) No automatic? Only stick!
The car looks like it's worth more than $40k. I'm suprised more people don't drive these cars.
Lotus Elise
Lotus Elise
Originally posted by: loic2003
Originally posted by: tec699
For a little over $40k the Lotus Elise looks like a sweet deal. IMO, a couple of the drawbacks that I've found with the car are...
1) Why only a 4 cylinder? Seems kinda puny to me. I'm not a car buff so maybe someone could clarify that for me.
2) Compared to a Nissan Z the Lotus Elise just doesn't look that comfortable.
3) No automatic? Only stick!
The car looks like it's worth more than $40k. I'm suprised more people don't drive these cars.
Lotus Elise
Lotus Elise
1) You don't need a 6-liter V8 to go fast. It's shocking I know, but you can actually make a high revving, *efficient* lightweight, reliable, small engine. Welcome to 2005. 4 cylinders are plenty to make a smooth, powerful engine.
2) It's not about comfort. It's a lightweight, nippy sports car with the #1 design aim being speed. Seen any aircon on an F1 car, recently?
3) Are you joking? Automatics are for stupid/lazy/old people and for sitting in traffic. Manuals are for proper drivers. Manuals are also quicker (see point 2), and more fun.
The lotus elise is an increadible vehicle. A lot of you are simply thinking about 0-60 times (granted the majority of you chaps are american so I can understand), but the lotus elise is all about cornering. You'll not find many cars that go faster and smoother around a corner. Also check out the aerodynamic properties of the vehicle. The underside is virtually completely smooth. Once the air has been taken over the top of the bodyshell from those hefty vents in the bonnet, there's a whole load of low pressure underneath the car, allowing it to corner just beautifully.
Around a track, the elise will whup many cars with much bigger engines. You can rule out your musclecars and the like. For the price it's awesome.
If you want to spend a little less, let me introduce you to the Vauxhall VX220. It has the same chassis and engine as the lotus - infact it's virtually the same car - but it cheaper as it's a Vauxhall (you do pay for the lotus badge).
I don't think it's quite a pretty, though...
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: loic2003
Originally posted by: tec699
For a little over $40k the Lotus Elise looks like a sweet deal. IMO, a couple of the drawbacks that I've found with the car are...
1) Why only a 4 cylinder? Seems kinda puny to me. I'm not a car buff so maybe someone could clarify that for me.
2) Compared to a Nissan Z the Lotus Elise just doesn't look that comfortable.
3) No automatic? Only stick!
The car looks like it's worth more than $40k. I'm suprised more people don't drive these cars.
Lotus Elise
Lotus Elise
1) You don't need a 6-liter V8 to go fast. It's shocking I know, but you can actually make a high revving, *efficient* lightweight, reliable, small engine. Welcome to 2005. 4 cylinders are plenty to make a smooth, powerful engine.
2) It's not about comfort. It's a lightweight, nippy sports car with the #1 design aim being speed. Seen any aircon on an F1 car, recently?
3) Are you joking? Automatics are for stupid/lazy/old people and for sitting in traffic. Manuals are for proper drivers. Manuals are also quicker (see point 2), and more fun.
The lotus elise is an increadible vehicle. A lot of you are simply thinking about 0-60 times (granted the majority of you chaps are american so I can understand), but the lotus elise is all about cornering. You'll not find many cars that go faster and smoother around a corner. Also check out the aerodynamic properties of the vehicle. The underside is virtually completely smooth. Once the air has been taken over the top of the bodyshell from those hefty vents in the bonnet, there's a whole load of low pressure underneath the car, allowing it to corner just beautifully.
Around a track, the elise will whup many cars with much bigger engines. You can rule out your musclecars and the like. For the price it's awesome.
If you want to spend a little less, let me introduce you to the Vauxhall VX220. It has the same chassis and engine as the lotus - infact it's virtually the same car - but it cheaper as it's a Vauxhall (you do pay for the lotus badge).
I don't think it's quite a pretty, though...
Just to save you from ownage may I suggest you revise the VX220 Engine bit. The 220 has the GM Ecotec, whereas the UK Elise has the Rover K and the US one as the Toyota unit used in the Celica.
Originally posted by: tec699
3) No automatic? Only stick!