'Low cost' iPhone leaked design review

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Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,753
1,311
126
Not long to go, shame I have just over a year left on my contract.
So do I, but I would just buy it outright. iPhone plans are horrendously expensive in Canada. It makes more sense here now just to buy the phone and get a cheaper plan.

If the 5C appears and it doesn't suck, then that would be a perfect solution. I'll have to check out the latest iPod's screen the next time I'm at the store. I'm guessing the screen would be of similar quality.

P.S. Are we supposed to capitalize "iPhone" at the beginning of a sentence?
 

joshhedge

Senior member
Nov 19, 2011
601
0
0
So do I, but I would just buy it outright. iPhone plans are horrendously expensive in Canada. It makes more sense here now just to buy the phone and get a cheaper plan.

If the 5C appears and it doesn't suck, then that would be a perfect solution. I'll have to check out the latest iPod's screen the next time I'm at the store. I'm guessing the screen would be of similar quality.

P.S. Are we supposed to capitalize "iPhone" at the beginning of a sentence?

The screen in the current iPod Touch isn't too shabby, no complaints. I just need a break from Android, fed up of the OS.

Tricky question, email Tim Cook haha ^_^
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,753
1,311
126
The screen in the current iPod Touch isn't too shabby, no complaints. I just need a break from Android, fed up of the OS.
Heh. Same here. I have a Nexus 7 (1st gen with 4.3) and a Razr HD (with 4.1).

Despite the OS, I'm keeping the Nexus 7 for 3rd party video playback reasons, but I'm gonna ditch Android for my phone.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
Prediction for iPhone 5C.

Takes the place of the iPhone 4S in the lineup, meaning $449 off contract
A5 processor, dual core with SGX543MP2, clocked at 1ghz (so higher than the 4S)
1GB of RAM
8MP camera similar to what's in the iPhone 5
FaceTime HD camera
Triple microphone system, similar to iPhone 5's so that Apple can drop Audience licensing

I think the main thing apple is going to be pushing with the 5C is the extra screen resolution and lightning connector adoption. I kind of have a feeling the iPad 2 is finally going to get the axe this year because of its dock connector.
 

joshhedge

Senior member
Nov 19, 2011
601
0
0
If they go with an A5 they've made a massive mistake.

Either keep one generation behind the SoC in the 'pro' iPhone, aka the A6 ( I hope they go with that moniker, no matter how unlikely ), or match the new one.
 
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Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
If they go with an A5 they've made a massive mistake.

Either keep one generation behind the SoC in the 'pro' iPhone, aka the A6 ( I hope they go with that moniker, no matter how unlikely ), or match the new one.

The A5 is a great chip for a free phone. Most people don't need more than that. And if they call it "pro" they'll have to fix the security holes and put it on a level of robustness similar to the old Blackberry.
 

joshhedge

Senior member
Nov 19, 2011
601
0
0
The A5 is a great chip for a free phone. Most people don't need more than that. And if they call it "pro" they'll have to fix the security holes and put it on a level of robustness similar to the old Blackberry.

I'm not disagreeing, it's just not good enough, Apple can't sit back on their laurels, they've got to be the leaders and an iPhone 5C with the A5 is certainly not that.

Granted it's going to be a budget iPhone, but I still expect a budget iPhone to be no less than a upper-mid end phone.
 

bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
But the A5 SoC is one generation behind. I'd love Apple to simply drop the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 and then go with a iPhone 5C and 5S, but I just don't think it's going to happen.

I think that if Apple hadn't released a new connector standard, this year would be business as usual, with the 4S dropping to free. I simply think Apples desire to get rid of the dock connector is going to be the driving force this year.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
I'm not disagreeing, it's just not good enough, Apple can't sit back on their laurels, they've got to be the leaders and an iPhone 5C with the A5 is certainly not that.

Granted it's going to be a budget iPhone, but I still expect a budget iPhone to be no less than a upper-mid end phone.

Sure, it's an iPhone so it should be made of the highest quality materials, but a budget phone doesn't need the fastest processor. There's nothing that can't run on an iPhone 4S.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
But a mid-priced one would be very cheap on contract, so it would be a budget phone. Rather than say $650 retail, even $400 retail could mean free or $50 on contract. People would eat that up.

Apples issue is that they want to make money not grab marketshare.

Sprint has a 'buy one get one free" on the Galaxy 4S.
Apple would NEVER allow something like that to happen and obviously Samsung/Sprint have some sort of deal in place to facilitate it.



That being said I think Apple wants (and needs) to make a splash so it will be free on contract (replacing the iPhone 4 at may carriers) and $450 off contract.
 
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Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
But the A5 SoC is one generation behind. I'd love Apple to simply drop the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 and then go with a iPhone 5C and 5S, but I just don't think it's going to happen.

I think that if Apple hadn't released a new connector standard, this year would be business as usual, with the 4S dropping to free. I simply think Apples desire to get rid of the dock connector is going to be the driving force this year.

I'm pretty sure the 5C is replacing the 4S as the free phone.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,364
2,373
136
But the A5 SoC is one generation behind. I'd love Apple to simply drop the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5 and then go with a iPhone 5C and 5S, but I just don't think it's going to happen.

I think that if Apple hadn't released a new connector standard, this year would be business as usual, with the 4S dropping to free. I simply think Apples desire to get rid of the dock connector is going to be the driving force this year.
Since there could be a lot of overlap between a 5S, 5 and 5C, they might drop the iPhone 5 from the line-up.

I think cost of the SoC is certainly a major part of their decision, and I don't know if they want to keep selling iPhones with 2 (or even more) screen resolutions. Getting rid of 960x640 sooner than later becomes useful if bigger screens are part of their road map.

Btw, joshhedge is absolutely right. Apple's profit growth has quickly stalled as Android gobbles up market share. A simple strategy from 2011 just isn't going to cut it anymore, even if Apple is still taking the lion's share of smartphone industry profits.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71
Prediction for iPhone 5C.

Takes the place of the iPhone 4S in the lineup, meaning $449 off contract
A5 processor, dual core with SGX543MP2, clocked at 1ghz (so higher than the 4S)
1GB of RAM
8MP camera similar to what's in the iPhone 5
FaceTime HD camera
Triple microphone system, similar to iPhone 5's so that Apple can drop Audience licensing

I think the main thing apple is going to be pushing with the 5C is the extra screen resolution and lightning connector adoption. I kind of have a feeling the iPad 2 is finally going to get the axe this year because of its dock connector.

That sounds about right, but I would guess it has A6 instead. Remember, the 5S is coming out too so A6 could very well be a generation behind (or the 5S could just have a faster binned 'swift' CPU core if its still using an A6 variant).

I would guess that in terms of SoC, the 5C will basically be an iPhone 5 - it makes sense.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
That sounds about right, but I would guess it has A6 instead. Remember, the 5S is coming out too so A6 could very well be a generation behind (or the 5S could just have a faster binned 'swift' CPU core if its still using an A6 variant).

I would guess that in terms of SoC, the 5C will basically be an iPhone 5 - it makes sense.

I was figuring that the 5C would be something like a 4S+ or a 5- in terms of power. I don't think that they'll drop the 5 altogether, do you?
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,753
1,311
126
I don't think they'd drop the iPhone 5. It has the new form factor, and it has the new connector. So, the three-tier offering would be:

5S
5
5C

Nothing with a "4" in it.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,182
35
91
I don't think they'd drop the iPhone 5. It has the new form factor, and it has the new connector. So, the three-tier offering would be:

5S
5
5C

Nothing with a "4" in it.

That's a lot of 5s. Can't Apple count? I guess not, since we've been on Mac OS 10 for over a decade.
 

rsutoratosu

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2011
2,716
4
81
the 4/4s is aging... i tried the developer ios 7, its almost unusable. Even IOS 6 is horrible on 4. I never upgraded my 4s to ios 6 either. 5 was running plenty fast.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
the 4/4s is aging... i tried the developer ios 7, its almost unusable. Even IOS 6 is horrible on 4. I never upgraded my 4s to ios 6 either. 5 was running plenty fast.

The 4 is quite a bit slower than the 4S. Posters here are saying that the 5C will have an A5 chip (faster than iPhone 4).

Also dev iOS7 isn't ready for prime time yet.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71
The old non-unibody MacBooks had horrific cracking, remember my friend had to replace his keyboard section twice due to it!

I think this signifies the end of the iPhone 4 and 4S, my guess is that they will be replaced with the 'low cost' iPhone at the 4's price point.

I doubt Apple would sacrifice the screen quality, it will still be a premium product.

The unibody Macbook's did have bad cracking issues, but you're talking about an all-plastic laptop vs. a smartphone, which is a smaller, single piece of plastic. Plus a lot of that cracking was because of pressure of resting your wrists on the keyboard while typing, and the plastic would constantly flex a little bit. Many plastic Macbooks did develop cracks over time, but you're also talking about a life cycle of 3-6 years, versus 1-2 on a smartphone generally. The iPhone 3GS didn't have spontaneous cracking issues (though it could be accelerated by dropping it!).

I hope they move to a flagship device/cheaper plastic device that's still up to spec.

I get so annoyed having to buy iPhone 4's at work because they are free on contract when they're just SOOOO old. I mean, no one in their right mind in management would buy a three year old Android device, but a three year old iPhone is just A-OK!

It would just be really nice to always have the free-on-contract iPhone be a year behind the current flagship, spec-wise.

Agreed, and I think this is the point behind the 5C. The iPhone 4 is ANCIENT by today's standard (not even a dual core CPU!, and the camera is garbage). I think the point of a 5C is to address that market, and also unify Apple's devices at one fixed aspect ratio. Much like Apple did to rush the ipad 4 to market so that their lineup phased out the old connector in favor of Lightning, I think the '5C' would unify Apple's phones at 16:9. It would also be a boon for contract-free purchasers, and also global sales.

The A5 is a great chip for a free phone. Most people don't need more than that. And if they call it "pro" they'll have to fix the security holes and put it on a level of robustness similar to the old Blackberry.

I couldn't disagree with you more about the A5, and I strongly suspect the 5C will basically be an iPhone 5/iPhone 5-lite under the hood, with an A6 SoC. You're talking about an SoC that saw its debut in late 2011 possibly powering a phone that will sold in 2013-2014? That's a stretch. Also, remember, the iPhone 5 is getting a bump as well with the 5S this fall.
-------

The A5 is a great SoC for a free phone. It's also great for a $100-150 device. However this phone is reportedly going to cost around $375-450. Free on contract doesn't mean free. Yes many buyers in the US/Canada will get this phone with a contract, possibly free, but for the rest of the world, and for the prepaid market, this is basically Apple's Nexus 4, meaning more customers are going to see that full phone sticker price up front.

The A5 was great in 2012 for lower-end devices. It's acceptable for driving the pathetic 1024x768 screen in the iPad mini. However, with iOS 7 on the horizon, with all of its transparency and GPU rendering, I don't think the A5 is appropriate for a brand new phone. Cortex A9 is an absolutely dated CPU architecture in today's market, especially since most new Android flagships are coming with beefy quad core CPU's. Also, Cortex A9's low power characteristics are worse than Swift/A6. Battery life is paramount for apple. Plus you're talking about a mere 37% increase in die size to go from A5 (crummy 2011-gen tech) to A6:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6330/the-iphone-5-review/4
------------


For all those reasons, I seriously doubt that an iPhone 5C will have A5 under the hood. I think that putting an A5 into an iPhone 5C would be an act of extreme hubris on Apple's part. I'm not saying that's impossible (just look at the screen of the iPad mini!), but it would be a seriously myopic choice on Apple's part. Think about it, Qualcomm's S4 (Krait 200) from last year, such as in the Galaxy S III is better across the board than A5. That part has already essentially been replaced.

For all we know, the iPhone 5S could very well come with an A7 chip too (though it could also just have a reworked A6, or possibly a quad-core version). Meaning A5 suddenly becomes 2 generations old, which is a no-no for a brand new product.
 
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joshhedge

Senior member
Nov 19, 2011
601
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The A5 was great in 2012. It's acceptable for driving the pathetic 1024x768 screen in the iPad mini. However, with iOS 7 on the horizon, with all of its transparency and GPU rendering, I don't think the A5 is appropriate for a brand new phone. Cortex A9 is an absolutely dated CPU architecture in today's market, especially since most new Android flagships are coming with beefy quad core CPU's. Also, Cortex A9's low power characteristics are worse than Swift/A6. Battery life is paramount for apple. Plus you're talking about a mere 37% increase in die size to go from A5 (crummy 2011-gen tech) to A6:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6330/the-iphone-5-review/4

For all those reasons, I seriously doubt that an iPhone 5C will have A5 under the hood. For all we know, the iPhone 5S could very well come with an A7 chip too (though it could also just have a reworked A6, or possibly a quad-core version). Meaning A5 suddenly becomes 2 generations old, which is a no-no for a brand new product.

Solid argument which I totally agree with.

What with TSMCs new contract with Apple and their preliminary testing, although I'm not sure if their 20nm node is ready yet, they could in theory go for a die shrunk A6, similar to the A5r2 to reduce the power and size characteristics of the SoC. Who knows. Only another month or so to go until we find out.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71
^ That would be seriously amazing if 20nm was ready in time for the 5C. There's a remote possibility, but I'm not holding my breath. It would make an A6r2 essentially a no-brainer choice for the 5C.

I believe that it's more likely that 20nm would be used on an iPhone 5S since a die shrink would be more useful if the 5S goes to quad core or a clockspeed jump. Ironically, if they do go to 20nm on the iPhone 5C and 5S, and new iPad(s), they may very well need to tap Samsung for more manufacturing capacity sooner rather than later. TSMC has a bad history of low yields on new nodes, and Apple knows this very well with their announcement to use Samsung in 2015:

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/06...er-finally-meeting-speed-and-power-standards/
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...msung-to-build-a9-socs-for-2015-iphones-ipads
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
I get so annoyed having to buy iPhone 4's at work because they are free on contract when they're just SOOOO old. I mean, no one in their right mind in management would buy a three year old Android device, but a three year old iPhone is just A-OK!

Huh?

If I could buy 3GSs for my company I would.
A 3GS does exactly what I need it to do within my company.

1 - Make/Receive Phone Calls
2 - Send/Receive emails
3 - Send/Receive text message
4 - Run Internal Apps (which run perfectly fine on a 2G - IE business stuff not games)
5 - Browse The Internet/Run Web Apps

I see no upside to any other phone.
(Maybe front facing camera for facetime during installation question.)

What I don't need in a company phone

1 - 3D Graphics (Games)
2 - High resolution Camera
3 - LTE
4 - Retna Display
5 - Anything Beyond Bluetooth 2
6 - Anything beyond 802.11g

A phone is a tool to assist in making the company money. Nothing purposed in the past several years increases productivity or accelerates the ability to conduct business.
 
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bearxor

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2001
6,609
2
81
Huh?

If I could buy 3GSs for my company I would.
A 3GS does exactly what I need it to do within my company.

A phone is a tool to assist in making the company money. Nothing purposed in the past several years increases productivity or accelerates the ability to conduct business.

All of that stuff you mentioned has no bearing on my company. My company doesn't care if people use their devices personally. In fact, for a lot of our employees, our devices are their primary and only phones.

But the IT Department, whom is almost all Android (I'm the iOS holdout) would never consider anything prior to a SGS3. But, in their minds, a iPhone 4 is a perfectly capable device.

I mean, they're not totally wrong. It still does just about everything we throw at it. But it's just a little hypocritical, IMO, that they're more than willing to spend $150-200 on Android devices but refuse to spend money on something higher than an iPhone 4. Even when a 4S would give a much needed feature for some of our mobile people like turn-by-turn navigation.
 
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