Low & Mid end Kaveri getting late - AMD mistake that will cost them?

[seitur]

AMD released high end Kaveri parts which offered increased IPC and significantly increased iGPU performance along with new Steamroller architecture that patched some of AMD module problems. Those are expensive high end APUs that have seen lot of interest, but limited adoption due to high price.

Now it seems that retail availabiluty of mid-end Kaveri is planned at Q4 2014 and low-end at who knows when (2015?!), which is very late considering high end parts released in January + that Intel will release unlocked Pentiums soon + low-end Broadwell parts will be available somewhere in 2015. Considering aggresive Intel ramp-up propably sooner rather than later.


Low & mid end Kaveri parts can potentially be very interesting depending on how binned they'll be and their price.

Do you think AMD have not shot themself in the foot by planning to release them so late?

 

[Enigmoid]

AMD released high end Kaveri parts which offered increased IPC and significantly increased iGPU performance along with new Steamroller architecture that patched some of AMD module problems. Those are expensive high end APUs that have seen lot of interest, but limited adoption due to high price.

Now it seems that retail availabiluty of mid-end Kaveri is planned at Q4 2014 and low-end at who knows when (2015?!), which is very late considering high end parts released in January + that Intel will release unlocked Pentiums soon + low-end Broadwell parts will be available somewhere in 2015. Considering aggresive Intel ramp-up propably sooner rather than later.


Low & mid end Kaveri parts can potentially be very interesting depending on how binned they'll be and their price.

Do you think AMD have not shot themself in the foot by planning to release them so late?

Links to the Q4 release?

 

[frozentundra123456]

The desktop chips do not really interest me. My question is "where are the mobile chips?"

For conventional desktops, intel igp is "good enough" unless you want really good gpu performance, then you need a discrete card anyway. The application I see a strong igpu as being attractive for is mobile, where it is not easy to add a discrete card. I have not heard anything about Kaveri mobile either.

 

[sm625]

They're always late and/or expensive at launch. But then no one buys them so they end up cheap. The problem now is that there is so much cat core crap thrown into the mix that no one, oems and consumers included, knows how to tell them apart. The average shopper or oem is not going to see the difference between a 4 core kaveri and a 4 core kabini, except the price of course. And now they all have the same names! They are giving a cat cores A8 and even A10 labels. They are basically just killing off their big core line by doing this.

 

[AtenRa]

Those are expensive high end APUs that have seen lot of interest, but limited adoption due to high price.

The average shopper or oem is not going to see the difference between a 4 core kaveri and a 4 core kabini, except the price of course. And now they all have the same names! They are giving a cat cores A8 and even A10 labels. They are basically just killing off their big core line by doing this.

Actually AMD CEO reported exactly the opposite of what you people are saying in the Q1 2014 report.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/214...sses-q1-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript

Originally Posted by RR
In the desktop channel, we continue to build momentum in the upper part of our portfolio as we enrich our product mix. Our high-end A8 and A10 APUs had a second straight quarter of record unit shipments. We continue to build a stronger desktop portfolio, ramping our high-end Kaveri APU and introducing our first low-powered socketed APU for the desktop channel this past quarter. We expect these APUs will drive revenue growth in the coming quarters.

As you can see High-End Trinity/Richland and Kaveri is doing more than fine.

I have not heard anything about Kaveri mobile either.

Again from AMDs Q1 2014 conference call.

Originally Posted by RR
In our personal computing business, our mobile APU unit shipments increased sequentially in the first quarter as our customers prepared to introduce notebooks powered by our newest Beema and Kaveri APUs.

First Kaveri Notebooks are scheduled for late Q2 2014 release if im not mistaken.

Also,

Originally Posted by RR
The PC market continues to remain challenging. We are seeing signs that the market decline is slowing and potentially stabilizing as some of the softness in consumer is being offset by demand for commercial PCs. Based on this, we now expect overall PC shipments will decline approximately 7% to 10% for the year, and we are positioned to take advantage of this based on our strategy to gain share in parts of the market where we are currently under-represented.
For example, in the commercial client market, we expect to more than double the number of designs that will come to market from our key OEM partners compared to last year. As a result, we believe we will deliver sequential PC revenue growth in the coming quarters of 2014.

 

[strata8]

They're always late and/or expensive at launch. But then no one buys them so they end up cheap. The problem now is that there is so much cat core crap thrown into the mix that no one, oems and consumers included, knows how to tell them apart. The average shopper or oem is not going to see the difference between a 4 core kaveri and a 4 core kabini, except the price of course. And now they all have the same names! They are giving a cat cores A8 and even A10 labels. They are basically just killing off their big core line by doing this.

The big cores are dying because they suck, not because users and OEMs are confused about the naming scheme.

Mobile Richland is a 248mm2 chip whose top bin barely beats the much smaller Core i3 while consuming more power. Think about that for a moment.

Beema only competes with Intel's lower end as well but it's at least very cheap and likely competitive in terms of power consumption.

edit: I really hope Mobile Kaveri and Steamroller changes things though.

 

[Enigmoid]

They're always late and/or expensive at launch. But then no one buys them so they end up cheap. The problem now is that there is so much cat core crap thrown into the mix that no one, oems and consumers included, knows how to tell them apart. The average shopper or oem is not going to see the difference between a 4 core kaveri and a 4 core kabini, except the price of course. And now they all have the same names! They are giving a cat cores A8 and even A10 labels. They are basically just killing off their big core line by doing this.

Actually AMD CEO reported exactly the opposite of what you people are saying in the Q1 2014 report.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/214...sses-q1-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript

As you can see High-End Trinity/Richland and Kaveri is doing more than fine.

Again from AMDs Q1 2014 conference call.

First Kaveri Notebooks are scheduled for late Q2 2014 release if im not mistaken.

Also,

He's talking about something that just happened/is happening. You are talking about 1 quarter ago.

AMD's naming scheme is pretty terrible.

 

[seitur]

Links to the Q4 release?

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-launch-amds-a8-7600-pushed-back-to-late-2014
A8-7600

OEMs will get it in Q2, but they need to make products with them and that takes time.
BOX units for everyone to buy will arive in second part of the year.

So either Q3 or Q4.

That's 1sku of mid end.

No info about low end (a4-a6) or about other skus of mid-end at all. One would guess it will be Q4 or later for them then,

@AtenRa

Thanks for info about Kaveri mobile.


@strata8

Yeah. Sadly that's it. In mobile AMD big cores can't seem to be able to compete at all.

In desktop Richland and earlier archs are badly outdated.

Steamroller is better, but it's late for certain market segments. and it might cost AMD further market share.

Hopefully Excavator will be ramped up more aggresively.

 

[AtenRa]

He's talking about something that just happened/is happening. You are talking about 1 quarter ago.

AMD's naming scheme is pretty terrible.

So you actually believe that OEMs doesnt know how to tell them apart ??

Also, as was mentioned so many times in the past, Beema/Mullins are not in the same segment as Richland/Kaveri.

 

[AtenRa]

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-launch-amds-a8-7600-pushed-back-to-late-2014
A8-7600

OEMs will get it in Q2, but they need to make products with them and that takes time.
BOX units for everyone to buy will arive in second part of the year.

So either Q3 or Q4.

That's 1sku of mid end.

No info about low end (a4-a6) or about other skus of mid-end at all. One would guess it will be Q4 or later for them then,

@AtenRa

Thanks for info about Kaveri mobile.


@strata8

Yeah. Sadly that's it. In mobile AMD big cores can't seem to be able to compete at all.

In desktop Richland and earlier archs are badly outdated.

Steamroller is better, but it's late for certain market segments. and it might cost AMD further market share.

Hopefully Excavator will be ramped up more aggresively.

The A8-7600 will launch in Q2 with OEM products. The retail availability is the one that got pushed back in to H2 2014.

I believe the main reason is that OEMs wanted to have a Unique product first than the rest of the retail market. Also, most of the Retail Consumer users are after the High-End SKUs more than the low power. It is the reason why both AMD and Intel are seeing more High-End SKUs being sold every quarter.

One more thing, I havent seen if it can be done in any other motherboard as of now but ASUS A88XM-Plus can change the TDP of the A10-7700K all the way down to 45W from within the BIOS. You just dial the TDP number you want and you have an A8-7600 at 65W or 45W TDP.
I will upload photos tomorrow

 

[tential]

So you actually believe that OEMs doesnt know how to tell them apart ??

Also, as was mentioned so many times in the past, Beema/Mullins are not in the same segment as Richland/Kaveri.

TBH, I really wouldn't be surprised if some OEMs really couldn't tell them apart.

You want to tell me every person you've ever seen working their job was efficient/knowledgeable?

 

[Abwx]

One more thing, I havent seen if it can be done in any other motherboard as of now but ASUS A88XM-Plus can change the TDP of the A10-7700K all the way down to 45W from within the BIOS. You just dial the TDP number you want and you have an A8-7600 at 65W or 45W TDP.
I will upload photos tomorrow

Do also power comsumption measurements to see if this is real although you should spot it on CPUZ with frequencies obviously lower.

 

[AtenRa]

Do also power comsumption measurements to see if this is real although you should spot it on CPUZ with frequencies obviously lower.

I'm certainly planing on doing that

 

[AtenRa]

TBH, I really wouldn't be surprised if some OEMs really couldn't tell them apart.

You want to tell me every person you've ever seen working their job was efficient/knowledgeable?

Well, i will not speculate if OEM employes cannot distinguish Cat family SKUs from Kaveri. Also, AMD also helps OEMs to understand the difference each AMD product brings to the market. If OEMs doesnt understand it, bad for them

Edit
ps: If any OEM needs guidance about AMD products send me a PM, i will gladly help you free of charge :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[dorion]

And now they all have the same names!

Jesus, again with the naming argument. If anything the lack of low and mid Kaveri should make you happy because there are less names for you to remember.

Did you follow hardware back in the Athlon XP times? That must've made you so mad.

 

[seitur]

The A8-7600 will launch in Q2 with OEM products. The retail availability is the one that got pushed back in to H2 2014.

I believe the main reason is that OEMs wanted to have a Unique product first than the rest of the retail market.

That seem like possible explanation.

One more thing, I havent seen if it can be done in any other motherboard as of now but ASUS A88XM-Plus can change the TDP of the A10-7700K all the way down to 45W from within the BIOS. You just dial the TDP number you want and you have an A8-7600 at 65W or 45W TDP.
I will upload photos tomorrow

Does that BIOS option also decrease price sending money to wallets of buyers?

 

[AtenRa]

Does that BIOS option also decrease price sending money to wallets of buyers?

No, because you get a 95W Unlocked SKU that can scale down to 45W if you like.

If all you need is a 45W Desktop SKU you will have to wait or Buy an OEM Product in Q2.
Edit: You can also try the A10-6700T which is available for some time now.

 

[erunion]

So you actually believe that OEMs doesnt know how to tell them apart ??

Also, as was mentioned so many times in the past, Beema/Mullins are not in the same segment as Richland/Kaveri.

Don't be silly. If its confusing for customers it is bad for OEMs. OEMs will reject bad marketing. Look at WinRT, OEM were very vocal about it causing confusion and they refused to support it


Kaveri and Beema will be in similar form factor budget laptops.

 

[AtenRa]

Kaveri and Beema will be in similar form factor budget laptops.

And this is the first time something like that happens ??? OEMs have different SKUs in similar form factor Products, it is not the first time they do that using both AMD and Intel SKUs.

Are you people Trolling or what now ???

 

[frozentundra123456]

As far as the naming scheme goes, the problem is not that oems don't know the difference, the problem is that they *do* know the difference, and use it as an opportunity to sell small, cheap low end chips at prices higher than the performance merits and hope that consumers don't know the difference.

This has happened for a long time with the amd small cores, and undoubtedly will now happen with the Intel atom celeron and Pentiums, which if possible have an even more confusing naming scheme than amd.

 

[erunion]

And this is the first time something like that happens ??? OEMs have different SKUs in similar form factor Products, it is not the first time they do that using both AMD and Intel SKUs.

Are you people Trolling or what now ???

You made a claim.
I made the opposite claim.
You implicitly accept but claim as valid while suggesting it was irrelevant (as if you were not the one that brought up the matter)
Then you ask if I'm trolling?

 

[Enigmoid]

So you actually believe that OEMs doesnt know how to tell them apart ??

Also, as was mentioned so many times in the past, Beema/Mullins are not in the same segment as Richland/Kaveri.

Given the number of stupid products that have failed miserably there are most definitely some OEMs. If the consumer can't tell them apart then the OEM doesn't really care.

They are not in the same segment but the similarity in naming will allow OEM's to push these chips where they should not be.

 

[AtenRa]

You made a claim.
I made the opposite claim.
You implicitly accept but claim as valid while suggesting it was irrelevant (as if you were not the one that brought up the matter)
Then you ask if I'm trolling?

I really dont understand what you are trying to say about the form factor. For decades OEMs use different SKUs in the same form factor, nobody expressed any claims that Customers and OEMs will be confused with SKU naming.

We have people here claiming that OEMs doesnt know the difference of AMDs SKUs and all of a sudden it is confusing having different SKUs used in the same form factor of OEM products.

Im sorry but commends like that seams like trolling to me.

 

[AtenRa]

Given the number of stupid products that have failed miserably there are most definitely some OEMs. If the consumer can't tell them apart then the OEM doesn't really care.

The average consumer doesnt know each SKU name and specs, hell even I dont remember every AMD and Intel SKU naming and specs and i have to find them online.

They are not in the same segment but the similarity in naming will allow OEM's to push these chips where they should not be.

Maybe, but that happens the last 30 years or more. It is the job of the retailer to inform the customer if he/she is uniformed. Or the Consumer have to make a research about the products available in the price point he/she is interested in. That is how its done all those years, why the sudden complaining and bizarre commends about OEM inability to understand each SKUs market place etc ??

 

[erunion]

They are not in the same segment but the similarity in naming will allow OEM's to push these chips where they should not be.

I envision a different problem. Customers will see a $350 15" A6(beema) laptop and a $400 15" A6(kaveri) laptop. They wont understand why the price difference exists and will choose the cheaper beema A6, further eroding AMDs big cores.